Posts by ScenicViewer

102

Day 2 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Thomas Jefferson Jr takes the stand in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

by darkspilver in

day two (wednesday 8 february 2017).

see also posts and threads regarding: pre-trial / day one / day one update / day five (last day, settlement).

jefferson: not totally.. zeff: okay.

ScenicViewer

It appears that Watchtower has developed a new strategy in handling these cases.

When sued...

Make a low offer to pay off the victim.
If the offer is rejected proceed with trial. Test the waters for a few days to see how it is going.
If the trial is going in Watchtower's favor, proceed to the end. If they get a win they have bragging rights.
If the trial is going badly, simply throw in the towel and write a big, fat check to the victim.

This method saves the public humiliation of losing as in the Candace Conti case and the ongoing Jose Lopez (and others) vs Gonzalo Campos cases that have resulted in massive public exposure of Watchtower's pathetic child protection policies.

It addition to the embarrassing public exposure there are the multi-million dollar judgements which are hitting Watchtower hard. Add to that the sometimes massive punitive damages, followed by appeal after appeal, and in the end Watchtower looses money, reputation, and credibility, even among many of it's own followers who inevitably become aware of the proceedings.

With a payoff, after testing the waters of the trial, Watchtower can claim it didn't lose and the negative publicity is kept to a minimum. We can't know how large the payoffs are, but when the plaintiff has a strong case the payoffs must be hefty in order for Watchtower to close out the matter and walk away.

I strongly believe that Watchtower cares much more about the negative exposure than the money.

52

Reveal article: Jehovah’s Witnesses settle suit alleging cover-up of child sex abuse

by AndersonsInfo in

https://www.revealnews.org/blog/jehovahs-witnesses-settle-lawsuit-alleging-coverup-of-child-sex-abuse/.

by trey bundy / february 17, 2017 .

the jehovah’s witnesses settled a lawsuit this week brought by a pennsylvania woman who says the religion’s leaders covered up sexual abuse she suffered as a teenager.. the settlement came five days into a trial in which stephanie fessler, a former jehovah’s witness, claimed the religion’s parent corporation violated pennsylvania’s child abuse reporting laws by instructing local leaders – known as elders – not to report her allegations to police.. according to fessler, a middle-aged jehovah’s witness woman, terry monheim, began sexually abusing her when she was 14. at 15, fessler disclosed the abuse to her parents.

ScenicViewer

...I am still a little surprised however that the WTS did not push down the legal line further and try and establish this case as a precedent for limiting their liability and culpability...

I honestly think Watchtower would have pushed farther if it hadn't been for the Candace Conti case a few years ago. More damage was done to Watchtower from the negative publicity and exposure than from the financial loss.

Conti was followed by the Jose Lopez (the victim) case vs Gonzalo Campos (the abuser). That case included Watchtower defying court orders which went to appeal. The trial, plus the appeals that followed, brought even more negative attention to Watchtower.

From the linked article in the OP:

The Watchtower maintains a database of alleged child abusers in congregations across the U.S. going back two decades and has violated court orders in at least three California lawsuits to hand it over to the courts.
It could provide a road map to thousands of accused child molesters living freely in communities across the country.

The same court orders that were defied previously, involving the database mentioned above, likely would have come into play in this trial too, leading to even more sanctions against Watchtower and more negative press. Watchtower will spend lots and lots of money to protect its database of child abusers.

I think the Organization is in damage control mode at this point. The financial losses are minor compared to the public thrashing they are receiving which causes a loss of both members and a great deal of money. After 4 days of trial Watchtower came to court on Monday prepared to up it's initial offer of $100,000.00 significantly, realizing their chances of winning were slim.

If I recall correctly the victim was only asking for $1.9 million, and there would have been a punitive damage phase to the trial - for failing to report child abuse in a mandatory reporting state, and for failing to properly protect the victim from further abuse after knowing about it - which could have amounted to more than the compensatory award.

It has been suggested that victim Fessler's case wasn't going well and that she decided to give in and accept the initial low offer, but I believe that is unlikely. Watchtower needs a win over which it can boast, and if it thought there was a possibility of winning it would have stuck with the trial to the end.

When the report on days 2, 3, and 4 of the trial are in we might possibly have a clearer picture of which way the trial was leaning, but at this point I believe Watchtower was prepared to get out by paying the victim a substantial amount of money.

I wonder if they are actually more keen to silence the noise than have a very public fight?

IMO, you nailed it.

64

Day 1 - Fessler vs. Watchtower – Opening Statements and Motions in Jehovah’s Witness Child Abuse Trial

by AndersonsInfo in

news bulletin: fessler versus watchtower – opening statements and motions in jehovah’s witness child abuse trial – day 1. .

posted on february 12, 2017. city hall, philadelphia, pennsylvania.

on a cold philadelphia morning the 7th of february, 2017, stephanie fessler walked into the court of common pleas of pennsylvania, first judicial district, civil trial division.

ScenicViewer

G 8/09 p 23
In order to adhere closely to the pattern set down in the Bible, Jehovah’s Witnesses have, not a clergy class, but unpaid spiritual shepherds and teachers who willingly minister to God’s flock.

Jehovah's Witnesses have unpaid spiritual shepherds rather than a clergy class? Watchtower is here dishonestly implying that all clergy are paid, and that since JW elders are not paid they are not clergy. This is very tricky and erroneous wording.

Not all churches have a paid clergy. I was raised in one that did not. Although some branches of the church used 'located ministers' that were paid, other branches used local men to take care of a normal ministers duties, much like JWs use elders.

Elders are clergy no matter how you slant it. Watchtower's constant denials of having a clergy class are only to try to make JWs look better, more Biblical, more holy, than other churches.

There are plenty of JWs that are paid too - missionaries, special pioneers, COs, DOs, and to a degree Bethel workers. I've often wondered how much GB members make. Not to mention that all their living expenses are paid, including business class travel. Then there are the 'green handshakes.' I tend to think they do very well.

Doesn't the Organization call these payments a 'stipend?' Using Richard Oliver's trick of only quoting the second definition, dictionary.com says...

Stipend: fixed or regular pay; salary.

60

Stephanie Fessler v Watch Tower - Trial on Tuesday, Feb. 7, 2017 in Pennsylvania

by AndersonsInfo in

http://avoidjw.org/2017/02/stephanie-fessler-v-watch-tower/.

stephanie fessler v watch tower.

stephanie fessler was brought up as a jehovah’s witness by her parents, jodee and kevin.

ScenicViewer

BTTT. Any news on this trial?

22

Hi I'm new to the site

by Raque Invierno in

hi everyone, i've just registered and thought i might introduce myself and tell my experience.

my name's raquel.. i was born into a jw family.

i started leading a double life around 14y/o and got caught drinking by another sister when i was 15 and saw that as my opportunity to quit the panthomime and stopped going to the meetings.

ScenicViewer

...my opportunity to quit the panthomime...

Love the expression! So many Jehovah's Witnesses are simply going through the motions, even those who still believe.

Welcome to the board and to your freedom.

61

Or was it Designed???

by Slidin Fast in

awake!

1 2017 says on its back page.

the saharan silver ant (cataglyphis bombycina) is one of the most heat-tolerant land animals known.

ScenicViewer

The Saharan silver ant’s compound heat shield helps the insect to keep its body temperature below the maximum it can tolerate—128.5 degrees Fahrenheit (53.6°C).
Did the compound heat shield of the Saharan silver ant come about by evolution? Or was it designed? What do you think?

Doesn't this set up a contradiction within the Watchtower belief system?

Watchtower subscribes to the "water canopy" theory in understanding Genesis 1:6,7

6 And God went on to say: “Let an expanse come to be in between the waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters.” 7 Then God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse. And it came to be so.

Watchtower explains that the layer of water "above the expanse" (the water canopy) provided the flood water of Noah's day when God caused it to collapse, and that before the flood the extreme temperatures of today did not exist. Rather than having the frozen poles of the arctic and antarctic, and the extreme heat of deserts, the water canopy caused temperatures world wide to be moderate. They describe as a hothouse effect.

(As a side point Watchtower claims the collapse of the water canopy is how mammoths became suddenly frozen, with green grass still in their mouths and stomachs. When the water canopy collapsed there was a sudden deep freeze at the poles.)

So, why would God create insects with a heat shield that were designed to tolerate extreme heat if extreme heat did not exist at the time of creation?

60

Stephanie Fessler v Watch Tower - Trial on Tuesday, Feb. 7, 2017 in Pennsylvania

by AndersonsInfo in

http://avoidjw.org/2017/02/stephanie-fessler-v-watch-tower/.

stephanie fessler v watch tower.

stephanie fessler was brought up as a jehovah’s witness by her parents, jodee and kevin.

ScenicViewer

My questions are similar to Sir82's.

In other cases, Candace Conti for example, she was abused by someone the elders knew to be a child abuser. They were guilty because they failed to protect her from a known molester.

The same is true in the Gonzalo Campos cases in San Diego. Campos was known by the elders to be a molester. He was later made an elder and took advantage of his position to molest several other victims. Again the congregation knew but didn't protect the other children, therefore the elders and the congregation bore responsibility.

In this case Terry Monheim (the abuser) was not previously known to be a molester, is that right? If this is right, and if this kind of case is actionable, it opens doors to lots of future cases that I didn't think would see the light of day.

16

Contradicting Governing Body Members

by Illuminated in

so we've heard from three different governing body members this year regarding child sexual abuse.. the latest one on the rc admitted there's a sexual abuse problem within the cult, yet lett and morris swept the dirt under the carpet stating they have a great reputation as far as sex abuse is concerned, and pointed their fingers at "apostate lies".

.

i'm left totally confused at the contradiction of this "organization"..

ScenicViewer

Didn't the Catholic Church deny thier sexual abuse problem for a few years too?

Yes, and Watchtower made a big deal out of it.

As so often happens, Watchtower is guilty of the same thing it condemns others for.

16

Contradicting Governing Body Members

by Illuminated in

so we've heard from three different governing body members this year regarding child sexual abuse.. the latest one on the rc admitted there's a sexual abuse problem within the cult, yet lett and morris swept the dirt under the carpet stating they have a great reputation as far as sex abuse is concerned, and pointed their fingers at "apostate lies".

.

i'm left totally confused at the contradiction of this "organization"..

ScenicViewer

Governing Body members have run the gamut, from outright denials that there is a problem with child molesting among Jehovah's Witnesses, to admitting there is.

I.) Stephen Lett outright denied there is a problem with pedophilia in "Jehovah's organization," claiming reports of such are "apostate-driven lies."

II.) Anthony Morris III hinted there is a problem in the Organization with child molesting but blamed it on gay men.

III.) Finally, Geoffrey Jackson acknowledged there is definitely a problem when testifying before the Australian Royal Commission. Jackson is questioned by ARC attorney Angus Stewart.

53

Skinned and Thrown About.....

by Tech49 in

this is a little long, but stick with me.. if you recall, when the building work was in full swing at the new lakefront villa (warwick), wt was having workers come and they would put them up for a year, or more, while they were providing "volunteer services".

with that, and the impending need for hundreds and hundreds of new khs in the usa territory, the congregations were abuzz with the need for "continued construction volunteers".

recently, as many of you know, wt headquarters has sent pretty much everyone home, and is no longer needing workers at the new warwick site, as the building is mostly complete, with the dedication coming up later this year.

ScenicViewer

they can flip to Malachi
Seems an odd choice of book to me as it's easy to find, being the last one in the OT. Not that I remember it ever being quoted from.

I took JWdaughter's reference to Malachi as a general reference to any of the small prophet's or difficult to find books in the Bible. JWs are usually pretty good at finding any obscure passage, and to some it's like a badge of honor to be able to do so.

Malachi itself is rather easy to find since, as pointed out, it's the last book of the OT and comes right before Matthew. But the reference could have been to any other small book - Nahum, Micah, Amos, Obadiah, etc.

When JWs, such as the ones in the opening post, are dropped from voluntary service by the Organization it leaves them with basically nothing to fall back on except the ability to find an obscure scripture in the Bible.

'Try living on that' is the humorous reference I got from her post.