Posts by ScenicViewer

15

I finally tied the knot, or any advice for an old "sew-and-sew"?

by compound complex in

jw
friends

i met up with many friends of 50-60 years over the last week.

these were friends from the neighborhood, school, and kh.

i renewed some really special attachments.

ScenicViewer

- I finally tied the knot

- ...an old "sew and sew"

- ...it all seams to be...

- I renewed some special attachments

All the word play mislead me too, but you only got stitched, not hitched.

41

what are your thoughts on this quote from the elders book?

by aboveusonlysky in

'in order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.'.

shepherd the flock page 91. i remember this is one of the first things that concerned me as an elder because it seemed to sound like a person is guilty until proven innocent rather than 'love believes all things', especially given the word 'convinced' appears in bold.. then in a training video one elder said something like 'unless we are convinced of repentance the shepherd the flock book says we must disfellowship'.

that was the begining of the end for me as i thought surely true christians would reason the other way round and show mercy wherever possible.. any thoughts?.

ScenicViewer

Prodical son - squandered a fortune living a debauched life, came home when the money ran out - thrown a banquet.
David - had an innocent man killed to cover adultery - kept his position as king but had his baby killed.
Achan - theft - fessed up and was stoned and burned along with his entire family.
So basically pick an example and be as forgiving or harsh as you want.

That's a pretty wide span of outcomes. No wonder Watchtower is all over the place with it's judgements.

41

what are your thoughts on this quote from the elders book?

by aboveusonlysky in

'in order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.'.

shepherd the flock page 91. i remember this is one of the first things that concerned me as an elder because it seemed to sound like a person is guilty until proven innocent rather than 'love believes all things', especially given the word 'convinced' appears in bold.. then in a training video one elder said something like 'unless we are convinced of repentance the shepherd the flock book says we must disfellowship'.

that was the begining of the end for me as i thought surely true christians would reason the other way round and show mercy wherever possible.. any thoughts?.

ScenicViewer

Iown Mylife:

...Jerry Decker. He really believed in being sympathetic and understanding.

In my previous post I mentioned an elder's remark about leaning toward mercy when in doubt. It would have been in the late 1970s or early 1980s when he said that, but the modern elder's manual says the opposite.

Like your experience with Jerry Decker, who was compassionate, I believe the elder was telling me the truth at the time. Now it seems that the organization has changed, that it has become more harsh in making judgements and is leaning away from being merciful.

In other words, the Watchtower organization is becoming more and more controlling as time goes on.

41

what are your thoughts on this quote from the elders book?

by aboveusonlysky in

'in order to extend mercy, the committee must be convinced that the wrongdoer has a changed heart condition and that he has a zeal to right the wrong and is absolutely determined to avoid it in the future.'.

shepherd the flock page 91. i remember this is one of the first things that concerned me as an elder because it seemed to sound like a person is guilty until proven innocent rather than 'love believes all things', especially given the word 'convinced' appears in bold.. then in a training video one elder said something like 'unless we are convinced of repentance the shepherd the flock book says we must disfellowship'.

that was the begining of the end for me as i thought surely true christians would reason the other way round and show mercy wherever possible.. any thoughts?.

ScenicViewer

Many years ago an elder told me, after he had returned from an elder training school, that when in doubt elders should lean toward mercy in judicial matters. However this quote from the elder's manual shows just the opposite.

Judicial systems vary from country to country. In the US it's 'innocent until proven guilty,' the idea being that it's better to let a guilty man go than to convict an innocent person. In other places it's 'guilty until proven innocent,' the idea being that it's better to convict an innocent man than to let a guilty person go.

It seems that Watchtower is following the more harsh way of the world rather than the more lenient way of the world and the Bible itself ('love believes all things').

Thanks for this post aboveusonlysky - I learned something about the organization that I was not aware of.

8

Am I right in thinking that the most zealous JW make the most zealous apostates.

by Chook in

just a thought.

ScenicViewer

Maybe some were weak as active Witnesses because they didn't fully accept all of it. It's hard to get behind something when you sense problems with it, even if you can't fully explain them.

Then, when they fully woke up, they became zealous against it because they can fully see the trickery Watchtower uses and are happy to explain it to others.

Am I right in thinking that the most zealous JW make the most zealous apostates?

I think it's a general rule with plenty of room for exceptions.

35

My Favouite Inappropriate Watchtower Pictures

by pale.emperor in

i'd love to see you're favorite wt illustrations/photo's that they think are fine to print - but are actually kind of creepy/wierd.. .

here's my three fave from my book of bible stories (yes, a book for children!)..

man gets his head nailed into the floor with a tent pin by a good jehovah worshipper:.

ScenicViewer

Small girl in a ditch, apparently dead, next to her doll, puppy, and a bicycle.

More fear mongering aimed at small children. Little eyes pick up these small details.

The large image from the book is cropped for this post.

Paradise book (From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained), 1958, p159

30

Incredible cover of book published in 1932

by Truthexplorer in

ok, i am reading through the book the watchtower and the masons by fritz spring meier which i am finding a fascinating read; and discovered that judge rutherford published the book 'cause of death'.

what is incredible is the book cover.

the book was published in 1932 which would have been a little bit more eye catching back then.

ScenicViewer

As a side point, Watchtower now teaches that the snake didn't have feet, but in 1932 they obviously said differently.

101

Convicted Child Rapist Proselytizing. Is the Community Aware? Is the Community Safe?

by freemindfade in

wow, this is awesome.

this really shows the jw passiveness towards child sex abusers.

there needs to be more of this exposing this!.

ScenicViewer

@ Freemindfade,

Brilliant new cover for the Elder's manual!

15

Why THAT talk? Why NOW?

by dubstepped in

in another thread there's a discussion about how the show must go on and meetings weren't even slowed down by the deaths or medical emergencies of ones in the audience.

for instance, one young brother's unbelieving father was murdered locally.

not long afterward he's assigned a part on an assembly about the resurrection or something.

ScenicViewer

Dubstepped: Is it to reinforce his beliefs and help him in some way?

That is exactly how an elder explained it to me many years ago. If a brother needed 'upbuilding' in a particular area the elders would assign him a part dealing with it. The idea was that he would be encouraged more than anyone since he would have to look up the information, run it through his head, and contemplate it.

Even as green as I was in the early 1970s I thought that was backward thinking, not to mention hypocritical. And as you mention it's often unfair to the person giving the information.

Dubstepped: Were they giving him talks on that subject matter thinking that he needed to learn that material and apply it, or are they just that stupid?

Yes and yes.

67

Recent mistakes of the Governing Body contributing to the decline of JWs

by slimboyfat in

they have made so many strategical mistakes it's hard to keep track.

some changes within the last decade or so that are contributing to declining numbers of jws:.

1. elimination of book study groups, the most informal, enjoyable and sociable of the jw meetings, contributed to loss of sense of community among jws.. 2. policy of consolidating kingdom halls.

ScenicViewer

Slimboyfat: Please add your own!

Money woes.

The constant asking for donations, which amounts to begging, is offensive to many. The org claims 'no collections taken, we exist on voluntary donations only,' but that claim flies in the face of Watchtower's money making tactics.

Selling off major properties (Brooklyn), taking money from congregation bank accounts (except for small monthly operating costs), and requiring congregations to donate a fixed amount of money every month are examples of Watchtower's money making ways that have never been exercised in the organization's history.

Add in the OP's mention of asking children to donate their pocket change and JW's who are even half awake have to wonder 'What is going wrong with this organization?'

The negative attention from many of the faithful, who are offended by the constant requests for money, is likely resulting in even fewer donations.