Posts by ScenicViewer

34

The Governing Body Rewrites the Organizations Past and Future History

by Cameron_Don in

jw
friends

watchtower annual meeting report.

october 6, 2012. during their annual meeting the governing body announced some changes in their interpretation of (1) the most important scripture in watch-tower theology, and (2) the most important event in watchtower history.

are their changes new light according to proverbs, or refinement according to daniel and malachi?

ScenicViewer

It just defies logic that people (JWs) will put their trust in a group of men who determine all their religious beliefs, their behavior, and life and death matters for them, all based on the idea that they are following the Faithful and Discreet Slave, when for the past 93 years that Slave hasn't even been able to correctly identify itself.

(The Governing Body is understood to be the Slave which was appointed in 1919, but the Governing Body is just now realizing it. How 'spirit directed' is that? Yikes! )

For any lurking JW readers, think about this: Is it really a good idea to put all your trust in such a group of men? If they have been wrong about who they are, and who the Slave is for all these years, how many other things might they also be wrong about?

That these men have been wrong about who they are for almost 100 years suggests an Incompetent Body rather than a Faithful Slave.

74

HELP! I've stepped in it now... mast head change - JW response!

by NeverKnew in

he's asking if i've read the first page of the new watchtower.. says page 8 admits and exposes the society's mistaken expectations.. says that both mags have been adjusted to reflect the understanding of generation.

asking if it is my position that witnesses have made claims to be inspired prophets.... and saying if it is, maybe *we* can consider together some examples in the bible of others who have had wrong expectations and have gone ahead of god's timetable and see how god handled that..

ScenicViewer

Welcome to the age of information WTS.

Amen to that!

74

HELP! I've stepped in it now... mast head change - JW response!

by NeverKnew in

he's asking if i've read the first page of the new watchtower.. says page 8 admits and exposes the society's mistaken expectations.. says that both mags have been adjusted to reflect the understanding of generation.

asking if it is my position that witnesses have made claims to be inspired prophets.... and saying if it is, maybe *we* can consider together some examples in the bible of others who have had wrong expectations and have gone ahead of god's timetable and see how god handled that..

ScenicViewer

NeverKnew said,

UPDATE: He asked me if the WT ever claimed to be inspired.

Quite often Witnesses will try to crawl out from under a label, such as being a 'false prophet,' by adding in an extra word, such as 'inspired,' then ask, Did we ever claim to be that?

However, does the Bible say that a prophet must claim to be inspired to be false? Below is the classic Scripture from Deuteronomy that warns against false prophets; I don't see where claiming to be inspired has anything to do with it.

(Deut 18:20-22, American Standard Version)

20 But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.

21 And if thou say in thy heart, How shall we know the word which Jehovah hath not spoken?

22 when a prophet speaketh in the name of Jehovah, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which Jehovah hath not spoken: the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.

I would ask your friend to use his Bible to show where claiming to be inspired makes a difference to being a false prophet. Perhaps it's in another scripture? If not he has no arguement there, and he is playing a game of words.

11

Walsh Trial questions.

by Fatfreek in

i've pasted a portion of the transcript below.

my question is in regard to the identity of the q. and the a. persons.

is the q = to covington or clyde?

ScenicViewer

The Walsh Trial testimony shows how controlling the Watchtower is when it comes to beliefs; Unity comes first, even before Truth. But what good in Unity if it is based on falsehood?

Contrast the remarks from the Walsh Trial with information in the Awake! about how controlling propagandists are.

Even though JWs are forced to all believe the same thing for the sake of Unity, and would be DF’d if they didn’t agree, the Society claims that JWs are “the most thinking people on the face of the earth.” This is a Propagandist’s method to make followers feel good about themselves.

(Awake 8-22-78 p3) See entire article; it is excellent.

Article Title: Do Others Do Your Thinking?
Subtitle: Propaganda has power. Does it overpower you? Or do you have a mind of your own?

(Par1) EDUCATION teaches you how to think. Propagandists tell you what to think. True educators present all sides of an issue and encourage discussion. Propagandists hammer hard on their view and discourage discussion. Many times their true motives are hidden. They sift the facts, tell the favorable ones and conceal the others. They distort and twist facts, specialize in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking abilities, are their target. Many fall easy prey because it takes no effort to feel, whereas thinking is hard labor. And the propagandist sees to it that his message is made to seem wise, the right and moral one, and gives you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow it. You are one of the smart ones, you are not alone, you are comfortable and secure-so they say.

(Par2) Propagandists have little respect for people's thinking abilities. Hitler wrote: "The intelligence of the masses is small. Their forgetfulness is great. They must be told the same thing a thousand times." Lenin was more discriminating. He used historical and scientific arguments to persuade the educated minority, but slogans and half-truths to arouse the masses, whom he considered unable to grasp complicated ideas. ...

What propagandists do:
- Tell you what to think
- Hammer their view
- Discourage discussion
- Sift the facts, telling only the ones they want you to know
- Conceal some facts
- Distort and twist facts
- Experienced at telling lies and half-truths
- Target your emotions
- Make their msg seem right and wise
- Give you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow their beliefs
- Gives you a feeling of being smart, while discouraging true thinking

It seems very clear that the methods of Watchtower are the same as those of propagandists. Watchtower is so good at being controlling that most of JWs can't see it, and are are convinced they are "thinking people."

339

Patterson on the line: Watchtower claims that paying cash bond would cause immediate irreparable harm and hardship

by cedars in

a new article for those who are interested.... http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/patterson-on-the-line-watchtower-claims-that-paying-cash-bond-would-cause-immediate-irreparable-harm-and-hardship.

.

cedars.

ScenicViewer

King Solomon said,

Since Cedar's site is not clear as to it's status (loyal or apostate), many JWs are likely to trust it as a trusted source of JW information.

From what I have read of Cedars' articles he his genuinely trying to appeal to Jehovah's Witnesses to help them awaken to the true nature of the Watchtower Society. Since JW's are conditioned to reject anything that they percieve to be apostate, wouldn't it be counter-productive for him to declare that his site is anti-Watchtower, aposate, or anything similar? That information would trigger most JW's to leave the site, mistakenly thinking they were getting in touch with one of Satan's agents.

I believe his approach at least allows JWs to take in some of the information, which may get them to thinking. Even if they leave the site seeds have been planted, and who knows where that will lead in the future.

I personally find this kind of neutral approach to be more appealing and effective than to set up an 'apostate' barrier that would prevent JWs from reading on.

I also believe that in the long run, more Witnesses will leave the Organization and stop making contributions as a result of articles like his, rather than make more contributions. (But not necessarily in that order; as for me I stopped making contributions long before I left.)

26

Jehovah's Witnesses: Who Can Baptize?

by Cold Steel in

if you're a jehovah's witness and you have a child, spouse, or buddy who wants to be baptized, can you baptize them yourself if they request it?

this is assuming you're a jehovah's witness in good standing.

and is it common in the church?.

ScenicViewer

In the 1970s it was common (in my area) to hold baptisms that were not part of an assembly or convention; they were held at someone's house who had a swimming pool. My brother, no longer active, was baptised at one of these events.

That practice was stopped for a reason that I'm not clear on.

This leads me to think that a family member probably would not be allowed to baptise a new one, but that's just a gut feeling, and I realize it might vary from place to place in the world since organized assemblies may not be as common everywhere as they are in the U.S.

Added note: These baptisms-on-the-side were done in the early 70s, and may have been a result of the 1975 end-of-the-world expectations being promoted by Witnesses. After all, the end was so close that 'there might not be another assembly,' so better get them baptised as soon as possible. That way 'they can be in the New System with us, dontcha know.'

47

When You Were A JW Were You Disturbed By "Apostate" Literature or "Apostates" At Conventions?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i was always curious about what they had to say.

(i guess i was an apostate in the making)..

ScenicViewer

I've seen signs with a string of many dates, going back to the 1840s, that I never understood.

I now know that these dates represented Watchtower's failed predictions. And the 1840s dates, which I knew were pre-Russell, were the failures of the second adventists and William Miller, whose works Russell later studied.

34

Did you ever shun people when you were a dub? How did it feel?

by oldlightnewshite in

okay, i don't know lots of people that were df'd, but of all the times i've encountered df people when i was a dub, they actually blanked me!

it was always something that i had fixed in my mind that the jws had dead wrong, even when i was an uber dub.

i remember several times when i used to arrive late at meetings, and i'd make a point of getting eye contact with the poor dub at the back sitting on the naughty step.

ScenicViewer

In my younger days I did, and I later felt horrible about it.

For the last few decades that I was active, when I saw a DF'd person on the street I would talk to them just as I would any body else. Even at the Hall I wouldn't shun them. No one said anything about it.

It felt so much better that way.

19

William Bowen Will Be On My Radio Show Tomorrow

by middleman in

if anyone would like to listen or call in to my show "the razor swift" here are the details..

ScenicViewer

Now live.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/grok558/2012/10/18/razor-swift-watchtower-pedophilia-with-william-h-bowen

38

Long time Lurker, ready to join in...

by Blackbird Singing in

jw
friends

hi all, i'm a long time lurker, ready to join in and add my two cents worth now and then!

i was in the religion for 25 years, out now for 8, along with my husband, daughter, and son!

i would have to say pretty much the whole time i was in i didnt want to be, pretty much "dreaded" all aspects of it, meetings, service, assemblies, and talks, i hated talks, man o man would i be grouchy the whole week i had a scheduled talk.. we didnt have much family in, but lots of friends and many jw employees, pretty much lost all that, down to just one jw employee left(thats a good thing).

ScenicViewer

Welcome Blackbird Singing,

It's always great to hear a success story that the entire family is out. No stress and worry about shunning from family; what a life saver that is!

Looking forward to your posts.