Remember the wt is only 30 minutes with a 30 minute talk following applied to local needs. That might make it worth your while to stay for the entire meeting.
messenger
JoinedPosts by messenger
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22
CO's visit sunday 9/23/01
by peaceloveharmony inhey all, .
well, i was just invited to attend the meeting on sunday, the co is visiting and my mother told me the talk will be a good one.
i don't know if i can stomach sitting thru this!
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WT way to please God
by messenger inin the 11-1-01 watchtower the follow quote is given:.
"sharing in the preaching work and making voluntary contributions are two ways that we can give to jehovah in return for the blessings he has given to us.".
so let me get this straight, if you sell their books and give them money, then that is the way you show god you love him.
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messenger
In the 11-1-01 Watchtower the follow quote is given:
"Sharing in the preaching work and making voluntary contributions are two ways that we can give to Jehovah in return for the blessings he has given to us."
So let me get this straight, if you sell their books and give them money, then that is the way you show God you love him.
Didn't I hear Bob Tilton offer a similiar analogy about his ministry? How did it go? If you send me a thousand dollars God will get you a new van for helping god out.
Why does God always have money troubles? It seems all his religions here on earth are just trying to help him pay his bills but he has some type of Elton John syndrome, and cannot seem to rub two dimes together. Well wt with comments like those above you put yourself in the same boat.
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DICK, GORE, BUSH & COLIN
by Amazing insome of you have read posts here, and on other forums, in magazines and newspapers, and maybe watched tv commnetary that alleges president george w. bush is less than brilliant, perhaps under-qualified for office, etc.. evidence seems starkly missing from these allegations.
during campaign 2000, the media started painting gw as being mentally 'one can short of a six-pack.
' but, has anyone, and i mean anyone provided even an ounce of evidence to support this?
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messenger
I know I should stay out of this but I cannot resist.
While I never voted for Clinton, I can recall a few things about his presidency of eight years;
peace
booming stock market
cheap gas
low interest ratesWith Bush in eight months we have;
crashing stock market
highest gas prices in history
threshold of World War III
low interest rates (just wait)If Bush is such a damn genius, and if he has such smart people around him then why the above?
How do you come up with such blind thinking? You might compare it to the Reagan lovers who say he was the greatest president. I remember more farmers losing their land than at any time in American history not to mention the interest rates and other measures that plunged the country into debt that has yet to be paid.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. My opinion is Bush is a twit. As far as the future is concerned, be afraid, very afraid.
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Another JW Account of WTC
by messenger indear brothers and sisters,.
it's 2:30 am and the phone lines are now open around here.
hopefully, you'll be able to get this message.
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messenger
9/12/01
Dear Brothers and Sisters,It's 2:30 AM and the phone lines are now open around here. Hopefully, you'll be able to get this message. Pardon the "generic look" but I wanted to pass this one as soon as possible.
I have a Manhattan view from my office here in Brooklyn. I got to see everything first hand. It was not pleasant. Bethel is located across the East River from Manhattan so any explosions and buildings collapsing did not affect us but the smoke did. They evacuated the 360 Furman building after lunch because the wind was blowing the smoke from the explosion toward it.
Here in the Factory, we shut off all ventilation, presses, bindery, windows, etc. We all went to the main lobby where the Bindery Overseer said a prayer. We were then sent to the 90 Sands Dining room. I ended up with the security detail in one of the lobbies.
At lunch, Brother Losch, from the Governing Body, reflecting that this disaster might be able to help others be more receptive to the truth, read an announcement from the Branch Committee. It basically told us to be more conscious of security since the police would be busy with the disaster. (We posted extra watchman all over the place.) We were "encouraged" to stay within the Bethel compound and not venture to the meetings or territory.
The colloquial term the younger ones around here is lockdown. Each body of elders then started contacting the different ones in their book study groups, who in turn contacted the presiding overseer who in then passed it on to the assembly overseers, then the circuit overseer and then to Bethel. By 10:30 pm tonight, everyone from my circuit (1 of several here in the city) was accounted for. It took a long time because all subways were shut down and everyone had to walk over the bridges. Cell phones, pay phones and any radio equipment were useless because the main antenna system was on one of the twin towers. Kids were not able to get home since the school would not release them until the parents picked them up. Meanwhile, the parents couldn't pick them up because they too were stuck in the city. So, it was a rather long day.
One family visiting Bethel was taking a tour. They were staying at the World Trade Center Marriott and had just gotten in early to tour when they saw the explosion. They lost all their belongings in the explosion but were alive. They were shaken up but glad to be alive. Bethel fed them and I was later told, housed until further notice. They told me that all the guests visiting were invited to have a meal with the Bethel family.
Meanwhile, the MASSIVE exodus from Manhattan over the Brooklyn Bridge was orderly and calm.
Tomorrow morning, no doubt we'll have a more accurate report at Morning worship. I'll let you know of any updates then.
The best thing we can all do is pray to Jehovah and help others appreciate in the field that the answer to these problems is the kingdom and that it is NOT as far away as some think.
Love,
Luis -
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Did Bethel Really let 900 rescue workers...
by Esmeralda in...stay in their facilities?.
my sister just called me, with the idea of 'comforting' me wt style (bad idea *lol*) i shut her down by saying "i respect that these are your religious views, but they are not mine.
" that managed to shut her up finally.. before that, though she volunteered this info, i was wondering if anyone can confirm it?.
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messenger
Please let this thread die a peaceful death. It painfully obvious that there has been no relief effort from WT and there will be none forthcoming unless a plane happens to hit bethel.
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11
Another PR Screwup
by messenger inwell it appears watchtower just blinked...... again.
on 9-11-01 the official press release was criticized on many levels.
it appears criticism came from several sources as the 9-16-01 version of the 9-11-01 press release had seven changes from the original.
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messenger
Well it appears Watchtower just blinked…… again.
On 9-11-01 the official Press Release was criticized on many levels. It appears criticism came from several sources as the 9-16-01 version of the 9-11-01 Press Release had seven changes from the original. The changes range from simple misspellings of a person’s name to some significant adjustments that further the implication of the Watchtower misrepresenting the actual facts of their assistance. The following adjustments are noted with comments on the adjustments following each one:“old” PR#1
Michael Wittick was on the 59th floor in Building #2, preparing for a 9 a.m. meeting. After a sudden loud noise, he saw that Building #1 was on fire, with paper and glass flying outside. "We were told to evacuate. When we got down to the bottom they were about to let us go back up, thinking that only Building #1 was affected. All of a sudden Building #2 shook. There was some other kind of explosion, then everyone started getting panicky." He relates that he'd never experienced anything like this in his life, "I was very scared. My knees literally started to shake."
“new” PR#1
Michael Wityk was on the 59th floor in Building #2, preparing for a 9 a.m. meeting. After a sudden loud noise, he saw that Building #1 was on fire, with paper and glass flying outside. "We were told to evacuate. When we were in the stairwell and got down to about the 20th floor, an announcement indicated they were about to let us go back up, thinking that only Building #1 was being affected. All of a sudden Building #2 shook. There was some other kind of violent explosion, then everyone started getting panicky. It changed the mood, the terror really rose at that point." My knees literally started to shake."
Comments:
Okay name misspelled simple mistake, but could be better journalism. Next we see a difference of twenty floors in the story as opposed to the first version. Finally from “never experiencing anything like this, very scared” to the far more dramatic, “it changed the mood, the terror really rose at that point.” So the brother went from “very scared” to “terror” in just five days.
“old” PR#2
Linda was another survivor. She works on Wall Street and saw debris flying. Soon her coworkers and relatives were telephoning. "One of the tenants was trampled, but thank God she was all right. Others saw the second plane hitting the tower. Everyone was scared. . . . Hatred can do so much harm. So many innocent lives were lost for no reason. We pray we can assist others who were going through such a hard time."
“new” PR#2
Linda works on Wall Street and had to evacuate with throngs of other New Yorkers. "One of the tenants was trampled, but thank God she was all right. Others saw the second plane hitting the tower. Everyone was scared. . . . Hatred can do so much harm. So many innocent lives were lost for no reason. We pray we can assist others who were going through such a hard time."
Comments:
Linda was not longer a “survivor” in the new release and she stopped seeing “debris flying” an already mentioned topic earlier for Michael, I guess if he sees it first then Linda does not get to tell her “debris” story. Finally, Lind’s “co-workers and relatives telephoning” were cut out of the piece, could it be they were worldly?
“old” PR#3
Reaching out to those hit by tragedy
“new” PR#3
Reaching out to those hit by tragedy-(Moved to top of Release, dropped 9-11)
Comment:
Do you really need a comment here? It seems that in order to make the Press Release a little more sexy they decided to put the “Reaching out” statement at the top. I guess the original” 9-11” beginning did not have the desired misrepresentation impact of the great small effort of Watchtower to help actual victims. Unfortunately this raises their hypocrite factor by .02%.
“old” PR#4
Arriving in the lobby of the Watch Tower buildings across the Brooklyn Bridge, Timothy, Michael and Linda breathed a sigh of relief. All three are Jehovah's Witnesses and so felt particularly comfortable in the familiar complex of buildings where they chose to seek refuge. They were able to join many others who sought shelter in these buildings. The billowing smoke across the river is a reminder of what they just survived.
“new” PR#4
Arriving in the lobby of the Watchtower buildings across the Brooklyn Bridge, Timothy, Michael and Linda breathed a sigh of relief. They were able to join many others who sought shelter in these buildings. The billowing smoke across the river is a reminder of what they just survived.
Comments:
Ah yes, the “all three” sentence was stricken from the new release. Why? One reason might be the fact so many made fun of the three JW’s given water as opposed to the thousands who were suffering from the tragedy who were completely ignored by Watchtower. Another revealing point in the sentence was when it was stated “where they chose to seek refuge” so you see the Society was not out actually helping people, they were giving water to those who happened to find the right door that wasn’t locked and identify themselves as Jehovah’s Witnesses to then be admitted to an offering of Watchtower love.
“old” PR#5
A volunteer brings Timothy a cup of water and offers him a chair. "You don't know how happy I feel to have made it to Brooklyn, coming down from 83 floors in the air." When he realized he really was out of danger, he added "I'm in the house of Jehovah now; I feel safe."
“new” PR#5
A volunteer brings Timothy a cup of water and offers him a chair. "You don't know how happy I feel to have made it to Brooklyn, coming down from 83 floors in the air." When he realized he really was out of danger, he added, "I feel safe."
Comments:
This change is very interesting, “ the house of Jehovah” dropped completely. Could it be that the Society does not want to give away there best kept secret? A special dispensation given direct from God to Brooklyn Bethel that prevents any harm from coming to Watchtower property in the event of any disaster. If the brothers let this get out, thousands of brothers and sisters would flood Brooklyn anytime a disaster hit and it would certainly be bothersome to have to “reach out” to more than twenty to thirty at a time. Another line of reasoning might be that they actually do know it is not the “house of Jehovah” but they just do not want the Witnesses to know that little known fact.
“old” PR#6
The Watch Tower buildings in Brooklyn were unaffected by today's tragedy, but the people working in them felt it deeply. As spokesman J. R. Brown expressed it, "Today's explosions sent a shock wave through the heart of New York and the rest of the world. Everyone will be touched by this tragedy. Comfort and cooperation are the necessary survival kit right now."
“new” PR#6
The Watchtower buildings in Brooklyn were not damaged in today's tragedy, but the people working in them felt it deeply. As spokesman J.R. Brown expressed it, "Today's explosions sent a shock wave through the heart of New York and the rest of the world. Everyone will be touched by this tragedy. Comfort and cooperation are the necessary survival kit right now."
Comments:
Not much here, just a change to a click able link. Can you guess what it is? A Watchtower article, “Coping With Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.” Nothing like not missing an opportunity when faced with death and disaster, to place some literature while you are at it. That will help provide some real “Watchtower” relief.
“new” PR#7
Contact: J. Richard Brown, telephone: (718) 560-5600
“old” PR#7
Contact: J. R. Brown, telephone: (718) 560-5600
Comments:
This one is simply too much fun. Richard? Did Mr. J. R. let one slip? No one ever calls him Richard. Another name for Richard is of course Dick, do you see the implication if he had to use his last name first? Now what is his first name, Jerome? Clearly a gaffe Mr. J. R. would soon wish to forget. Should we let him?Original Press Release
For Immediate Release
September 11, 2001
9-11
"I got rocked out of my chair." Timothy Eng was on the 83rd floor of World Trade Center's Building #1 and felt the first plane hit this morning. "At first I thought it was a really heavy wind, but then I saw one of the traders I work with; he was burned from head to toe. I rushed to put out the flames. People said a plane hit the building. All we saw was debris flying out from above. I helped the trader get down the stairs. As we came down it was dark and there was water and debris everywhere."
Michael Wittick was on the 59th floor in Building #2, preparing for a 9 a.m. meeting. After a sudden loud noise, he saw that Building #1 was on fire, with paper and glass flying outside. "We were told to evacuate. When we got down to the bottom they were about to let us go back up, thinking that only Building #1 was affected. All of a sudden Building #2 shook. There was some other kind of explosion, then everyone started getting panicky." He relates that he'd never experienced anything like this in his life, "I was very scared. My knees literally started to shake."
Both of theses men were survivors of today's tragedy, two of the thousands who made their way across the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges to escape the aftermath of this catastrophe.
Linda was another survivor. She works on Wall Street and saw debris flying. Soon her coworkers and relatives were telephoning. "One of the tenants was trampled, but thank God she was all right. Others saw the second plane hitting the tower. Everyone was scared. . . . Hatred can do so much harm. So many innocent lives were lost for no reason. We pray we can assist others who were going through such a hard time."
Reaching out to those hit by tragedy
Arriving in the lobby of the Watch Tower buildings across the Brooklyn Bridge, Timothy, Michael and Linda breathed a sigh of relief. All three are Jehovah's Witnesses and so felt particularly comfortable in the familiar complex of buildings where they chose to seek refuge. They were able to join many others who sought shelter in these buildings. The billowing smoke across the river is a reminder of what they just survived.
A volunteer brings Timothy a cup of water and offers him a chair. "You don't know how happy I feel to have made it to Brooklyn, coming down from 83 floors in the air." When he realized he really was out of danger, he added "I'm in the house of Jehovah now; I feel safe."
Food and refreshments are provided to the people who streamed in the building. "They are looking for a haven," Jack, one of the helping hands, remarks. "There was some panic. A lot of people who work here volunteered to help provide whatever was needed."
The Watch Tower buildings in Brooklyn were unaffected by today's tragedy, but the people working in them felt it deeply. As spokesman J. R. Brown expressed it, "Today's explosions sent a shock wave through the heart of New York and the rest of the world. Everyone will be touched by this tragedy. Comfort and cooperation are the necessary survival kit right now."
Contact: J. Richard Brown, telephone: (718) 560-5600New Press Release
For Immediate Release
September 11, 2001
Reaching out to those hit by tragedy
"I got rocked out of my chair." Timothy Eng was on the 83rd floor of World Trade Center's Building #1 and felt the first plane hit this morning. "At first I thought it was a really heavy wind, but then I saw one of the traders I work with; he was burned from head to toe. I rushed to put out the flames. People said a plane hit the building. All we saw was debris flying out from above. I helped the trader get down the stairs. As we came down it was dark and there was water and debris everywhere."
Michael Wityk was on the 59th floor in Building #2, preparing for a 9 a.m. meeting. After a sudden loud noise, he saw that Building #1 was on fire, with paper and glass flying outside. "We were told to evacuate. When we were in the stairwell and got down to about the 20th floor, an announcement indicated they were about to let us go back up, thinking that only Building #1 was being affected. All of a sudden Building #2 shook. There was some other kind of violent explosion, then everyone started getting panicky. It changed the mood, the terror really rose at that point." My knees literally started to shake."
Both of these men were survivors of today's tragedy, two of the thousands who made their way across the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges to escape the aftermath of this catastrophe.
Linda works on Wall Street and had to evacuate with throngs of other New Yorkers. "One of the tenants was trampled, but thank God she was all right. Others saw the second plane hitting the tower. Everyone was scared. . . . Hatred can do so much harm. So many innocent lives were lost for no reason. We pray we can assist others who were going through such a hard time."
Arriving in the lobby of the Watchtower buildings across the Brooklyn Bridge, Timothy, Michael and Linda breathed a sigh of relief. They were able to join many others who sought shelter in these buildings. The billowing smoke across the river is a reminder of what they just survived.
A volunteer brings Timothy a cup of water and offers him a chair. "You don't know how happy I feel to have made it to Brooklyn, coming down from 83 floors in the air." When he realized he really was out of danger, he added, "I feel safe."
Food and refreshments are provided to the people who streamed in the building. "They are looking for a haven," Jack, one of the helping hands, remarks. "There was some panic. A lot of people who work here volunteered to help provide whatever was needed."
The Watchtower buildings in Brooklyn were not damaged in today's tragedy, but the people working in them felt it deeply. As spokesman J.R. Brown expressed it, "Today's explosions sent a shock wave through the heart of New York and the rest of the world. Everyone will be touched by this tragedy. Comfort and cooperation are the necessary survival kit right now."
Contact: J. R. Brown, telephone: (718) 560-5600 -
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What Bethel has done per their information Line
by puppylove ini just spoke to bryce at bethel information line (hopefully this was not just nytelecom1 himself).. this is what bethel has done:.
1. donated batteries and flashlights.
2. power equipment to cut through concrete.
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messenger
Let me get this straight, a poster called puppylove claims to call bethel, claims they are volunteering information about their relief efforts, claims the specfic things that are being offered in the way of help, excuse me??????
Sounds like a troll trying to win sympathy for WT. Since when does WT have a hotline set up to tell everyone about there relief efforts? Since when has any company or corporation set up a telephone line to TELL the public what they are doing for disaster relief.
Would it not make more sense to have a telephone line to offer direction on how to distribute relief or how to get accommodations or where for relief workers to start working or where to send food or any one of ten thousand other things that might actually be useful?
For anyone to claim to have called bethel and be given a list of what WT has done for relief, sounds a bit to self serving for me to believe.
Get real people.
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Christian Nutheads
by FrightMare init's comforting to know that our religious nuts are taking a positive spin .
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-attacks-robertson0913sep13.story.
virginia beach, va. -- religious broadcaster pat robertson said tuesday's terror attacks occurred because americans have insulted god and lost the protection of heaven.. "we have imagined ourselves invulnerable and have been consumed by the pursuit of ... health, wealth, material pleasures and sexuality," robertson wrote in a three-page statement issued thursday by his christian broadcasting network.. "it (terrorism) is happening because god almighty is lifting his protection from us," said robertson.. you christians sure have some wonderful leaders!
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messenger
F**K Pat Robertson and the horse he rode in on....
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1
Watchtower Water
by messenger inin the recent pr release the wt gloated over their efforts of providing water to jehovah's witnesses who walked into the front door of 124. it seems wt is taking every opportunity to misrepresent to the public their actual community efforts.
in the latest awake the obituary for a sister who passed away read as follows:.
"she performed voluntary community service as a jehovah's witness by teaching the bible to interested people for 54 years".
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messenger
In the recent PR release the WT gloated over their efforts of providing water to Jehovah's Witnesses who walked into the front door of 124. It seems Wt is taking every opportunity to misrepresent to the public their actual community efforts. In the latest Awake the obituary for a sister who passed away read as follows:
"she performed voluntary community service as a Jehovah's Witness by teaching the bible to interested people for 54 years"
Voluntary community service? Excuse me? Would that be the same as saying a person performed voluntary community service by selling vacuum cleaners door-to-door for 54 years? How about fuller brushes?
It is interesting a couple of articles later in the magazine the earthquake in El Salvador and the work of relief to witnesses was once again transformed into a relief work for the entire country. NOT! Notice this comment and see if you find the subterfuge:
"By mid-April 567 provisional homes had been built by the Witnesses for victims of the Earthquakes and almost 100 additional households had received materials to repair their damaged homes."
Hello!
Who do you think the victims and additional households were affiliated with religiously? Jehovah's Witnesses only.To pretend you are helping the general population in an earthquake devastated country would compare to the WT staying they had a major share in the cleanup at the World Trade Center disaster. If you were to compare the relief efforts expended by so many in El Salvador to what WT did for its own people there, it would easily parallel the three cups of water given to Witnesses at 124 while thousands do the real work of trying to help those in need.
Why is this clear misrepresentation of facts continuing in the publications of the society? The answer seems to lays in the religious status of Watchtower around the world. So many countries have seen for years WT only helps themselves while pretending to be a charitable organization. WT stands to lose tax-free status and not obtain tax-free status in many countries for this reason. So what is there solution? Would it be to actually reach out and help non-witnesses? Hell no. Instead they foment a lie to misrepresent the work they have done for years as now being a great charitable work. All the articles about how many have been taught to read. Who do they teach to read? Jehovah's Witnesses only, a small point they forgot to mention in the article. Similarly in the article mentioned above at no point was it clearly mentioned they were only helping fellow JW's. Why? I think you know the answer to that question. Why would an organization whose sole interest is to represent God on earth lie about their charitable efforts? Is that what God wants? Perhaps that is it, God needs them to fib to protect his assets on earth. Could the real answer be that God is embarrassed that his name is attached to such a group of selfish, greedy, self-serving, cult members?
Will the Awake run a story in the near future about the excellent relief efforts expended by WT during the WTC crisis? If so, you can be sure that while many JW's marvel at how wonderful the society is, the rest of us will know the pitiful efforts of a billion dollar corporation to deliver Watchtower water. -
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Society's Press Release about the tragedy
by Esmeralda inchasson posted this in another thread, and i think it should be brought to the forefront.
thank you, chasson for showing us all this link.. typical society response to tragedy.
so three people got out and got to brooklyn.
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messenger
In a post above the "bomb" being dropped on Japan was described in negative terms. This must be a person who is young and naive regarding the basis for the action taken. If you look into history, Japan was willing to fight to the last man, woman, and child standing. They had armed women and children with bamboo spears and training on how to use them. For a ground force invasion it would have cost the lives of thousands of military personnel with hand to hand combat for every foot of land taken. The Japanese were thoroughly indoctrinated through their government that death was far better than defeat. The "bomb" was a clear alternative to a people who were all by and large planning to die defending the emperor who they believed to be a god by the way. Up comes the religion thing again with a strange irony to what happened yesterday. Suicide pilots, have a familiar ring?
So the question is, should the USA commit thousands of American lives to conquer a people who train their children to kill from the moment they can carry a rifle? Is it worth it to invade a country where anyone can be an enemy including women and children? Anyone remember Vietnam? How can you win a war with odds such as this? If Ben Laden is turned over and he is executed, won't that just make him a martyr that will be deified for the next generation of religious nuts to vindicate?
Much like the Japanese there is only one thing these type people understand, death. Otherwise described as overwhelming insurmountable destruction. Of course, according to their religion they go straight to heaven, so you are really doing them a favor helping them to get there quicker.
Anything less than this alternative will just cost many more lives, spend billions of tax dollars that accomplish nothing and give these people the impetus to commit greater acts of terrorism. In my opinion the choice is simple, either send Ben Laden a thank you card, or nuke wherever he is at off the face of the earth. That would give people who understand nothing less, a clear picture of why you best leave Americans alone.