i did believe for the first 30 years of my life that they had been picked by jehovah god to dispense the truth as best as imperfect humans could.
then, everything became questionable.
i had read anti jw books in the past but franz's books really got to me but not immediately.
They had a working hypothesis that eventually didn't work.
I was born in. Baptized just before I turned 11.
Huge assemblies 1953 1958
Prophecies seemed to fit.
Two world wars fought in Christendom.
Grandparents died
Parents died
I'm almost 70
I rode it as long as it could still stand on its feet. You have to shoot horses with bad legs.
Now I have to walk by myself.
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/dinosaurs-veronica-ross/1112326051?ean=9780760765586.
here we have a book for children about dinosaurs.
if you read the reviews, there are some that object to the gory pictures inside.
I went to a major natural history museum with some witnesses. I pointed out how ferocious
T-Rex was. They responded "all the better to tear into the thick vegetation". Then I pointed out
the Volkswagen sized armadillo-like dinosaur that had a thick coat of bony plate. Was that to
protect them from giant Venus Dinosaur Traps?
There are thousands of these contradictions to the principles of creation. They aren’t remarkable
and children can easily figure this out. The argument of last resort?"God loves puzzles and has a
great sense of humor".
i have been reading the posts on who is and or had been an elder.
it amazes me at what many have said.
perhaps i have misunderstood what they were saying.
Holy Spirit - Does anyone really know what it is supposed to mean?
It's White Magic.
Like ALL MAGIC it exists in the imagination.
It is just another human construct like GOD.
Whatever the Watchtower writes about it - the real meaning is the effect the concept has on those that believe it.
They think that it is something that steers them to make correct decisions.
THIS IS DANGEROUS!!!!
It's dangerous because these people think that if they pray for guidance then the evaluation they make of individuals or situations is automatically right.
Innocent people get put to death (organizational "shunning" death) just as in the Salem Witchcraft trials.
It doesn't matter what the Watchtower says officially. It's how individuals conceptualize it.
Why argue over whether the society gets it right. Any interpretation is skewed because we might as well be talking about Hogwarts.
been reading some back posts.
just wondered if the borg monitor this or any other sites.wouldn't that make them apostate as well?
?typical double standard through and through.the scumbags.hope you all have a crap week.
You can bet some of the writers come to this site. And very likely a couple of the governing body too.
Creative workers have a certain temperament that makes them open and curious.
Ray Franz is an example. Gilead instructors were also subject to harboring independent ideas.
From Franz's books it is clear that the higher up you go the more wacky ideas they entertain along with some good ideas too.
I don't think they monitor this site to disfellowship anyone. Maybe this is done on a local level when someone's identity is leaked.
wondering what to make of this youtube channel.
looks like it could be put out by wachtower.
http://www.youtube.com/channel/ucn6uoc8oxbgrhqqazu6unsq/videos.
"Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us."
But Jesus said, "He's bogus. I will make an appeal to Tiberius through the prefect, Pontius Pilate, to stop these fraudulent exorcisms once and for all!"
alright.
let's have the ultimate discussion on "higher education.
" let's talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Simon and others have struck the right nerve. You get the education that will equip you to do what you enjoy doing.
People who do what they enjoy don't consider it work. Some people are cut out to be janitors. They like transforming a dirty place into a clean one.
Others have a strong desire to work at very complex problems.
This is where the JW.ORG gets it wrong.
They want everyone to be magazine salesmen or public speakers ignoring the fact that we all have "different gifts".
They make the exception for certain skills that are practical in the context of HQ activities. But even in that case they prevent some of the best people for those jobs because they don't pass the pioneer test. They also believe that anyone can do anything with the help of Holy Spirit.
By denying a person the chance to pursue their inner talents they are destroying their most valuable resource - the human resource.
That is why the JW.ORG is a freak. Other religions don't force people to do jobs they aren't cut out for.
The result is JW.ORG children that are raised according to the organization template are stopping their individual growth and natural identity formation. Adapting to a rigid one-size-fits-all structure is unhealthy. It works for some who like the JW.ORG structure but it is devasting to those who don't. Think of all the shy introverted persons who struggle with door to door work. They aren't effective publicists and have to beat themselves up to do that and then feel guilty because they don't have good results.
alright.
let's have the ultimate discussion on "higher education.
" let's talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly.
The USA has really screwed things up with tuition costs for higher education. When I should have gone to college (1963) tuition was $320 per year at the main state university. Today it's close to $11,000. If the tuition costs were adjusted for inflation they would only be $2,000 per year. I can see spending $10,000 for an education. But $45,000 is crazy.
The myth that a college degree at least proves that you are willing to work. That's BS. With todays costs it mostly means you were able to get your hands on the funds or take on unreasonable debt.
The problem is that businesses ought to pay for the education of their "slaves". Why should a person have to pay $45,000 to get a good job?
alright.
let's have the ultimate discussion on "higher education.
" let's talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly.
I must confess that I did continue my education. But it was self-taught. So I could have something in my mind while I did my boring job I have read very close to 2000 books in the last 30 years. I even helped an old guy in his 80's (a fairly well known science fiction writer) get his doctoral degree by providing him some important information for his Doctoral Thesis. Some of my personal research ended up in a psychological textbook, and also Men's fitness magazine. I am known by some of the experts in my narrow area of interest. Just haven't had time to pursue my ideas like I would prefer. Raising a family on a pittance doesn't leave much time for other things. Just remembered that Rupert Murdocs text book company uses one of my diagrams in a physical education text book.
The crazy thing about this is that after a couple years of pioneering I decided I just couldn't do that and I decided I would go to the convention in Toronto (1966) and then plan on going to college to study geology and perhaps get a job with a mining company. That was the convention that they released "Life Everlasting In The Freedom of The Sons Of God". That was the book that started the death march to 1975. I figured I would just keep pioneering or focus heavily on the ministry with only 9 years left to the end. That fateful decision set the course for muddling through the 47 years until now.
Every once in a while I get a shepherding call from a couple of Elders who want to encourage me. One time I asked them what they did for a living.
Both of them had fallen out of the "truth" when they were young men and went to college. They told me not to advertise that. So I notice that none of these people who come in with a college education and have good jobs are willing to pioneer and wash windows. Some of them are set up with great jobs and earn an equal amount to their regular job as consultants. I offer to train them as janitors if they want to pioneer.
alright.
let's have the ultimate discussion on "higher education.
" let's talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly.
male
68 years old
baptized at 10
My early life I wanted to be a scientist.
I saved my allowance for 4 years to buy a quality microscope from edmund scientific at the age of 11.
I loved that microscope. It was 300x. I looked at everything with it. I made slides of everything I could
I would gaze for hours at microorganisms floating in pond scum.
At the age of 12 I built my own weather station out of milk cartons, my sisters hair (hygrometer), I learned the various cloud formations that help me predict weather better than I can get off the weather channel today.
At 12 I started rock collecting. ON our family vacations to the west coast I would stop and dig in the dirt for rocks I would later identify and assemble into a decent rock collection that I still have.
I hardly read any fiction that wasn't required by my school.
My nose was always buried in science books like 1,2,3 Infinity. Design of the Universe. The education of T.C. Mits (The common man in the streets)
When I heard there was a comet that would only be visible with a 30 power telescope I scavenged some eyepieces from my microscope combined them with a good magnifying glass so I could see my first comet. I even brought that makeshift telescope to the kingdom hall to show some of the other kids the comet. They weren't very interested and made fun of me.
At 13 I made my own wilson cloud chamber so I could see the tracks of cosmic rays.
I devoured Scientific American.
My 8th grade science teacher let me stay after school and use the schools glassware (beakers and retorts) to do experiments in organic chemistry.
My 8th grade science teacher also took me to the local meeting of the geological society on the first Tuesday of every month. Even though we had a book study in our home my parents understood my passion and let me skip the meeting.
I was put in the accelerated science program that was started because Russia lauched Sputnik.
In 9th grade I built a chamber for determining how much CO2 was absorbed by plants in the sunlight vs. dark.
IT all came to a halt that year.
I picked up on the anti-education atmosphere at the Kingdom Hall. All the experiences of people turning down scholarships to pioneer, go to Bethel or Giliead.
I wanted to live forever so I could pursue research forever.
I gave my first hour talk at the age of 17. I became the school overseer at 18.
When I told my witness parents I was going to pioneer they were disappointed. They knew my passion for science and learning.
They encouraged me to go to College because they felt I needed that and wouldn't be happy doing anything else.
After 9th grade I more or less quit pursuing good grades because I knew I wouldn't go to college.
I was a 3rd generation JW going back to Russells day.
Even though my parents were willing to pay for my college education I didn't listen to them. I only listened to the Watchtower.
I have become old. I don't believe in God. I became atheist in my outlook even without the "corrupting" influence of the University.
Doing janitorial work and washing windows and trying out various multi-level marketing programs I have lived someone else's life.
I am living a life of a bunch of people all of whom are dead and rotting just like their extinct doctrines.
The moral of this story is that parents need to be careful about the direction the organization is giving to their young children. At some point those kids will be the property of the organization and will do as they tell them. Even if you changed your mind they may not change theirs.
'I will say one thing. After seeing how botched up my life is my kids have pursued advanced degrees and no longer claim to be JW's.
I not mad at the Watchtower for robbing me of my life. I am mad at the Watchtower for robbing me of the "meaning" of life.
A person's "vocation (calling) is nature defining your life's work. I ignored my true nature.
i've been out the organisation for around 8 years.
when i first left, im positive that i suffered from some sort of post traumatic stress.
i was very angry at myself for accepting the really bad parts of the religion that i strongly disagreed with.
There is a strong need in humans for transcendence.
Once you get life working properly and your needs are taken care of there is a desire for something more.
Think Bono, Bill Gates and others who choose to occupy themselves with helping others.
You don't jus want the "good" life. You want a life that is "good" for something.
