Posts by scotoma

63

The " HIGHER EDUCATION" thread!!!

by DATA-DOG in

jw
friends

alright.

let's have the ultimate discussion on "higher education.

" let's talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly.

scotoma

I must confess that I did continue my education. But it was self-taught. So I could have something in my mind while I did my boring job I have read very close to 2000 books in the last 30 years. I even helped an old guy in his 80's (a fairly well known science fiction writer) get his doctoral degree by providing him some important information for his Doctoral Thesis. Some of my personal research ended up in a psychological textbook, and also Men's fitness magazine. I am known by some of the experts in my narrow area of interest. Just haven't had time to pursue my ideas like I would prefer. Raising a family on a pittance doesn't leave much time for other things. Just remembered that Rupert Murdocs text book company uses one of my diagrams in a physical education text book.

The crazy thing about this is that after a couple years of pioneering I decided I just couldn't do that and I decided I would go to the convention in Toronto (1966) and then plan on going to college to study geology and perhaps get a job with a mining company. That was the convention that they released "Life Everlasting In The Freedom of The Sons Of God". That was the book that started the death march to 1975. I figured I would just keep pioneering or focus heavily on the ministry with only 9 years left to the end. That fateful decision set the course for muddling through the 47 years until now.

Every once in a while I get a shepherding call from a couple of Elders who want to encourage me. One time I asked them what they did for a living.

Both of them had fallen out of the "truth" when they were young men and went to college. They told me not to advertise that. So I notice that none of these people who come in with a college education and have good jobs are willing to pioneer and wash windows. Some of them are set up with great jobs and earn an equal amount to their regular job as consultants. I offer to train them as janitors if they want to pioneer.

63

The " HIGHER EDUCATION" thread!!!

by DATA-DOG in

jw
friends

alright.

let's have the ultimate discussion on "higher education.

" let's talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly.

scotoma

male

68 years old

baptized at 10

My early life I wanted to be a scientist.

I saved my allowance for 4 years to buy a quality microscope from edmund scientific at the age of 11.

I loved that microscope. It was 300x. I looked at everything with it. I made slides of everything I could

I would gaze for hours at microorganisms floating in pond scum.

At the age of 12 I built my own weather station out of milk cartons, my sisters hair (hygrometer), I learned the various cloud formations that help me predict weather better than I can get off the weather channel today.

At 12 I started rock collecting. ON our family vacations to the west coast I would stop and dig in the dirt for rocks I would later identify and assemble into a decent rock collection that I still have.

I hardly read any fiction that wasn't required by my school.

My nose was always buried in science books like 1,2,3 Infinity. Design of the Universe. The education of T.C. Mits (The common man in the streets)

When I heard there was a comet that would only be visible with a 30 power telescope I scavenged some eyepieces from my microscope combined them with a good magnifying glass so I could see my first comet. I even brought that makeshift telescope to the kingdom hall to show some of the other kids the comet. They weren't very interested and made fun of me.

At 13 I made my own wilson cloud chamber so I could see the tracks of cosmic rays.

I devoured Scientific American.

My 8th grade science teacher let me stay after school and use the schools glassware (beakers and retorts) to do experiments in organic chemistry.

My 8th grade science teacher also took me to the local meeting of the geological society on the first Tuesday of every month. Even though we had a book study in our home my parents understood my passion and let me skip the meeting.

I was put in the accelerated science program that was started because Russia lauched Sputnik.

In 9th grade I built a chamber for determining how much CO2 was absorbed by plants in the sunlight vs. dark.

IT all came to a halt that year.

I picked up on the anti-education atmosphere at the Kingdom Hall. All the experiences of people turning down scholarships to pioneer, go to Bethel or Giliead.

I wanted to live forever so I could pursue research forever.

I gave my first hour talk at the age of 17. I became the school overseer at 18.

When I told my witness parents I was going to pioneer they were disappointed. They knew my passion for science and learning.

They encouraged me to go to College because they felt I needed that and wouldn't be happy doing anything else.

After 9th grade I more or less quit pursuing good grades because I knew I wouldn't go to college.

I was a 3rd generation JW going back to Russells day.

Even though my parents were willing to pay for my college education I didn't listen to them. I only listened to the Watchtower.

I have become old. I don't believe in God. I became atheist in my outlook even without the "corrupting" influence of the University.

Doing janitorial work and washing windows and trying out various multi-level marketing programs I have lived someone else's life.

I am living a life of a bunch of people all of whom are dead and rotting just like their extinct doctrines.

The moral of this story is that parents need to be careful about the direction the organization is giving to their young children. At some point those kids will be the property of the organization and will do as they tell them. Even if you changed your mind they may not change theirs.

'I will say one thing. After seeing how botched up my life is my kids have pursued advanced degrees and no longer claim to be JW's.

I not mad at the Watchtower for robbing me of my life. I am mad at the Watchtower for robbing me of the "meaning" of life.

A person's "vocation (calling) is nature defining your life's work. I ignored my true nature.

95

I think my faith might be returning. Feeling very confused.

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

i've been out the organisation for around 8 years.

when i first left, im positive that i suffered from some sort of post traumatic stress.

i was very angry at myself for accepting the really bad parts of the religion that i strongly disagreed with.

scotoma

There is a strong need in humans for transcendence.

Once you get life working properly and your needs are taken care of there is a desire for something more.

Think Bono, Bill Gates and others who choose to occupy themselves with helping others.

You don't jus want the "good" life. You want a life that is "good" for something.

28

Major flub in Slavery Watchtower Study Article

by scotoma in

jw
friends

do you ever wonder if the watchtower writers actually read the context of their key scriptures?.

they seem intent on perpetuating the idea that the jewish law was divine - perfect.. paragraph two asks the question "what would prompt an israelite slave to forfeit his opportunity.

to be free?".

scotoma

Adamah:

I used the term blackmail loosely because ordinary (non legalistic) person's understand that it is obtaining something from another person without using physical force. And ordinary people understand that it is bad. Poetic licence if you will.

Actually in a legal sense it is neither extortion or blackmail. The slave knew the rules when he took a wife from his master's household. So, the Master wasn't doing anything wrong legally. Now if the Master gave a woman in his household to the slave and certified it in writing and then decided to change his mind he would have a problem with the men in the gates. The Watchtower also makes the claim that when you got baptized in recognition of the "spirit led organization" that you knew what you were getting into. That's how they can deny any wrongdoing by disfellowshipping someone who leaves.

Even if the Master is nice he isn't noble and endearing. And to be sure this loop hole was exploited. It was a legal way to retain slaves past the date of release and calls into question the whole system of slavery.

And what would you expect of a Master (Jehovah) who is so unforgiving that he had his only begotten son die from torture?

28

Major flub in Slavery Watchtower Study Article

by scotoma in

jw
friends

do you ever wonder if the watchtower writers actually read the context of their key scriptures?.

they seem intent on perpetuating the idea that the jewish law was divine - perfect.. paragraph two asks the question "what would prompt an israelite slave to forfeit his opportunity.

to be free?".

scotoma

Do you ever wonder if the Watchtower writers actually read the context of their key scriptures?

They seem intent on perpetuating the idea that the Jewish law was divine - perfect.

Paragraph two asks the question "What would prompt an Israelite slave to forfeit his opportunity
to be free?"

They would like you to think of the benevolent master generously obeying the law and liberating
his slave after 7 years and because the Master was so wonderful they would choose to remain
with the master over obtaining their freedom.

By reading the context you get to see that the master is a conniving black mailer.

"Exodus 21:5 "But, if the slave should insistently say, "I really love my master, MY WIFE AND
MY SONS; I do not want to go out as one set free.

So the real answer to the paragraphs questions is that an Israelite slave was prompted to forfeit
his opportunity to be free BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE WITHOUT HIS WIFE
AND CHILDREN.

The problem is the slave that marries a slave and has kids by her can't take her or the kids with
him. The wife and kids are the slave property of the slave master and must remain slaves.

So look at how the Watchtower skips over this unimaginable cruelty with its answer to the
question.

"However for a slave who REALLY LOVED HIS MASTER and who wished to remain in his
service, Jehovah made a REMARKABLE PROVISION"

Remarkable? How is that remarkable? The first thing I would do if I got a slave is make sure he
hooks up with one of my slave women because then I could "remarkably" circumvent the
requirement to give a slave their freedom and at the same time get a whole family of slaves.

The "faithful slave" apparently learned from the master that you can get your freedom from the
organization anytime you want but you will have to forfeit your precious family ties.

30

I regret my disassociation.

by Zoos in

jw
friends

if i knew then what i know now, i might never have disassociated myself.

i realize all i can do is speculate on what could have been.

however, when i consider the number of people i might have been able to help by dropping little thought-provoking seeds, i really regret having jumped to the decision to disassociate so quickly.. ive read the accounts of several people on this forum telling of how stressful it is to be in the position that i just described above.

scotoma

Most people become JW's through friends and relatives.

The reverse also works.

The best way to help people break free is to work on your friends and relatives.

Just like JW's wait for the appropriate time to "witness" timing is everything.

You have to be there at the moment someone becomes conflicted about their trust in the organization.

It's hard to crush an egg by pressing the two ends between your hands. But at the same time a tiny bump will break through the shell.

2

what kind of amazing peace agreement would capture your watchtower imagination?

by scotoma in

jw
friends

embeded in the minds of jw's and xjw's is the watchtowers pairing of some kind of cry of peace and security followed by something referred to as the "disgusting thing standing in the holy place".

there have been many moments of peace starting with the end of world war ii vj day and ve day.

end of korean war?.

scotoma

Gopher,

That has already happened. Those goals were stated and agreed upon in the preamble of the UN

PREAMBLE

WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED

to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and
to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, and
to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained, and
to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

AND FOR THESE ENDS

to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours, and
to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security, and
to ensure, by the acceptance of principles and the institution of methods, that armed force shall not be used, save in the common interest, and
to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples,

HAVE RESOLVED TO COMBINE OUR EFFORTS TO ACCOMPLISH THESE AIMS

Accordingly, our respective Governments, through representatives assembled in the city of San Francisco, who have exhibited their full powers found to be in good and due form, have agreed to the present Charter of the United Nations and do hereby establish an international organization to be known as the United Nations.

2

what kind of amazing peace agreement would capture your watchtower imagination?

by scotoma in

jw
friends

embeded in the minds of jw's and xjw's is the watchtowers pairing of some kind of cry of peace and security followed by something referred to as the "disgusting thing standing in the holy place".

there have been many moments of peace starting with the end of world war ii vj day and ve day.

end of korean war?.

scotoma

Embeded in the minds of JW's and XJW's is the Watchtowers pairing of some kind of cry of peace and security followed by something referred to as the "disgusting thing standing in the holy place"

There have been many moments of peace starting with the end of World War II VJ day and VE day

End of Korean war?

Recognition of China and its entry to UN?

End of Vietnam war?

Egypt and Israeli peace agreement?

End of Aparheid?

Collapse of the Soviet Union and its domination of Eastern Europe end of the 40 year long cold war?

Regime change in Iraq?

To be sure there are still some hot spots SE Asia, North Korea, India vs Pakistan. Anarchy on the Continent of Africa.

Would all these areas need to be settled or is there some kind of crown jewel of peace negotiations such as a solid Israel and Palestine situation.

The Israeli/ Palestinian puzzle demands some kind of comprehensive solution that is extremely complicated because of the clash of relgious ideologies Christian/Jewish,Sunni and Shiite Muslim all sitting on the most valuable commodity on the planet - OIL.

If a great fanfare is made over such a peace agreement in the Middle East would you as a JW or even an XJW start looking over your shoulder for the other shoe to drop which would be some gigantic reversal of expectations that could be described as "the disgusting thing that causes desolation" that marks the start of the greatest tribulation the world has ever seen.

This is not a prophecy. Just wondering.

33

Father of four quits job after attending Annual Meeting

by confusedandalone in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvdegzadefa.

this is completely ridiculous.

even as an uber dub i would bnever ever do this!!!

scotoma

Little Phineas should get a toy spear to play with. That way when he grows up and becomes an elder he will be ready to start stabbing people in their genitals.

With all the Bible names, why pick such a dispicable character. Kids are influenced by their names.

36

Quite an interesting first meeting with my Therapist.

by truthseekeriam in

jw
friends

the moment i mentioned jehovah's witnesses he headed over to his file cabinet and handed me this print out.. .

dear beloved one, .

i see your loneliness and fears.

scotoma

I have never been to a psychotherapist or counselor, but I have watched the TV series "In Treatment".

How do you pick a therapist?

If the therapist is to much like you they won't be able to help you address the real conflicts in your life. They will have the same coping mechanisms and blind spots.

If the therapist is opposite of you they will hate you and become sadistic and get some secret pleasure in creating discomfort for you

If the therapist is simply not the kind of person you would take seriously they won't be engaging enough to put in a sincere effort.

It seems that the ideal therapist would be somewhere in between a friend and someone who is indifferent.

You end up switching therapists and you have to lay out a couple hundred dollars to get to know them as persons.

It's as bad as courtship.

If I needed a therapist I would want a free session where I could browse their professional library to see what books and therapies they reference.

I would ask them which therapists they tend to model. Thank them for their time. Read a book or two by the therapist's favorite therapist.

Nice thing about this method is your problem will probably be gone by the time you find your best therapist.