Posts by Liberty

10

Dr. Evil and World Domination....Serious Post Actually

by oompa in

the insight book says:.

the events that took place from and after the year 1914 c.e.

are well-known history to all, beginning with the great war that erupted, the first world war in mankinds history and the first to be fought over the issue, not of the domination of europe alone, nor of africa, nor of asia, but of thedominationoftheworld.lu 21:7-33; re 11:15-18; see last days; presence.

Liberty

You are soooo right to be skeptical of this claim oompa. Many historians consider the Napoleononic conflicts of the early 1800's to be the real "first world war". Most of the participants that were involved in these wars are the same as the official WWI except for their alliance changes. The Mongals were also certainly interested in world domination and perhaps even killed more people than those killed in WWI.

The concept of 1914 being a "world turning point" date is really unique to the Watch Tower Society and reveals the limited and outdated view of the creator of this concept for the JWs, namely Fred Franz, who was stuck in and obsessed with his own Generation's life and times (the now extinct 1914 Generation). WWII is a far better "world turning point" and would make a far better starting point for any "End Times" prophecy fulfillment if we were inclined to believe in such nonsense. WWII makes WWI look like a rough brawl by comparison in the conext of sheer brutality, deaths, civilian victims, and mass destruction, not to mention the invention and use of nuclear weapons which were for the first time really capable of some world wide effect.

34

Is agnostic different from athiest? How so?

by wanderlustguy in

i know the answer, because i am agnostic.

it is strange to me that people assume if you say you are agnostic that it means you don't believe in god.

from wiki.... agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of the existence or nonexistence of god or gods; or, alternatively, that while individual certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge.

Liberty

By every meaningful definition of God (omnipotent, omniscient) I would have to say I am an anti-theist since the universe is too chaotic and full of horrors for there to be an omnipotent and omniscient creator super being who would not be totally evil and insane. I would be against such a being even if it existed and would happily let it destroy me rather than bend to its crazed will. I am 100% convinced that no such being exists and have no wish for such a thing to be true, hence, an anti-theist.

Does that mean I would discount the possibility of higher beings existing somewhere in the universe? Certainly not. I would just say that they will not be omnipotent and omniscient creators of the universe and hence not Gods as most western modern people would define them.

All my research and studies in various fields has led me to conclude that the Bible is wholly man made and Christianity is as false as Islam, JWism, and Mormonism. Completely made up nonsense by my fellow human beings.

16

Do you think that JW's will ever get rid of the "1914" doctrine?

by booker-t in

jw
friends

with the year 2014 only 7 years away what are jw's leaders going to say if armaggeddon is not here by then?

how many more changes will have to take place in order for them to keep jw's loyal to the wt society?

my mom just celebrated her 78th birthday on sept 9 and she got baptized in 1967 believing armaggeddon was coming in 1975. i just cry when i think of the elderly jw's that gave their whole lives for the wt believing that armaggeddon was around the corner.

Liberty

I think they effectively already did get rid of it in 1995. Since then the "Generation" has been described as any one who does not recognize that Jesus has been enthroned. They changed the entire meaning shifting it from old faithful believers who lived during that time to it now being any and all worldly sinners who fail to recognize the authority of the Watch Tower Society(the physical manifestation of Christ's enthronement). There will never be a shortage of wordly unbelievers so they are safe for years to come.

Since the doctrine it is now primarily applied to "worldly sinners" I think it is off the radar screen for most JWs. They have been letting it slowly fade away using this confusing change to shift it into obscurity along with 6000 year creative days, the organ transplant ban,and the physical heart as the seat of emotions and spirituality they have now abandoned.

Most new convert JWs (past 10 years) never even think about the fact that Jesus has been a do-nothing king for well over 90 years now. All they know is that the WT Society is "very active in the Kingdom work" which proves Christ is enthroned so they don't think about the time involved beyond their own limited lifetimes.

93

Climate: Natural disasters

by hibiscusfire in

i live in the tropics so we experience hot and rainy weather.

where i live the sun is very hot at this time that your skin feel as though it's on fire.

i have never experienced snow.

Liberty

You must be pulling our legs and yanking our chains hibiscusfire? No one is really this dim-witted, surely? Your seeming lack of any basic scientific knowledge (whether you believed in it or not) is just flat out unbelievable. Where were you educated? I knew more about science I didn't believe in as a 12 year old JW than you do as an adult nonJW. I am assuming you are an adult.

You can't really be this scientifically uninformed and yet be so confident in your ignorance? If this isn't a put on then I don't even know where to start. For example, I have a basic working knowledge of Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology even though I don't believe a word of it is true because it is a part of our culture so surely you know some science even if you don't believe in it? I can talk with some working knowledge about these mythologies and debate their merits while your postings are so idiotic that there isn't even a basis for debate.

Please tell me you are just putting us on.

25

Inconsistency in Placing Blame?

by Mum in

i was just reading something about the story in genesis about the angels leaving heaven to mate with earthly women.

does anyone else find it peculiar that the watchtower places no blame on the women?

in the wt world, it is always the less powerful who bears the primary burden of guilt except in this one case.. for example, didn't someone post a wt form which asks an applicant about pedophile practices and then asks if the child did anything to provoke the assault?

Liberty

Does the Watch Tower Society accept the book of Enoch as an inspired part of the "real Bible"? If not, then thier extra-biblical speculations on the "sons of God" story's meaning is even worse. Not that the story makes any logical sense no matter how you slice it anyway.

25

Inconsistency in Placing Blame?

by Mum in

i was just reading something about the story in genesis about the angels leaving heaven to mate with earthly women.

does anyone else find it peculiar that the watchtower places no blame on the women?

in the wt world, it is always the less powerful who bears the primary burden of guilt except in this one case.. for example, didn't someone post a wt form which asks an applicant about pedophile practices and then asks if the child did anything to provoke the assault?

Liberty

Sweetstuff you hit on another problem I've had for years with the whole WT Society interpretation of Jehoober's sovereignty fight. If the angels, including Satan, who worked and lived with big J on a most intimate level and are near perfect couldn't stand to tow the line then how do any of us stand even the slightest chance of being faithful? If the angels are smart and know of God's full powers then wouldn't they know a rebellion would always end in their destruction? You would have to be pretty miserable in your service to prefer sure suicide to an eternity of living in God's presence. Jehoober must not be very nice if so many of His closest angelic associates decided to join Satan in his rebellion and seal their fates. It doesn't make any sense.

25

Inconsistency in Placing Blame?

by Mum in

i was just reading something about the story in genesis about the angels leaving heaven to mate with earthly women.

does anyone else find it peculiar that the watchtower places no blame on the women?

in the wt world, it is always the less powerful who bears the primary burden of guilt except in this one case.. for example, didn't someone post a wt form which asks an applicant about pedophile practices and then asks if the child did anything to provoke the assault?

Liberty

You make a good point Mum. Your topic has also caused me to remember this as just one of many silly WTB&T Society "interpretations" of a Bible story. In the first place, the original account in Genesis doesn't say this was done by angels but rather by "the sons of God". I don't think any Bible scholar could know for sure just who the sons of God were in this strange context.

Secondly, if they really were angels then God has some serious problems with how He creates spirit beings and boundery issues. To me the story couldn't possibly be true because I am not sexually attracted to insects and yet I am from birth just an imperfect sinner living in the same physical realm as the insects. Since I have no interest in "getting it on" with insects I can't imagine how spirit beings (angels) second only to God, who is said to have created the Universe, would be attracted to smelly ape-like humans from another realm of reality in the first place. Sure, I was programmed to be sexually attracted to females of my own kind and stink. I think human females of breeding age look great but male ants think the same thing of the hormone spurting huge quivery white queen ants ten times the males size. Not to mention just how a "spirit being" angel could have any sexual feelings at all since they are asexual and made up of spirit? The whole concept is absolute nonsense and sounds like a myth or legend created by human beings and not a revelation from God.

If angels could become flesh and "marry" humans is there any indication that the angels were told it was wrong to do so? Why would their offspring be any better than the average human of the time who was supposidely closer to perfection back then according to Watch Tower's own interpretations? How could an angel add "superness" to the genes he is transmitting to the human egg? Chimps share 90+% of our genes but cannot produce chimp-humans so how could an angel add very much extra to the mix and still produce offspring? Wouldn't they have to replicate themselves into as exact of human forms as possible if they wanted kids? Why would sex starved angels even want kids? If I were an angel I'd just make my sperm incompatable and have sex with as many hot young chicks as possible without the complications of pregnancy, especially if I lived for eons and had to watch my children die over and over again.

In short, the whole thing smells of egotistical humans imagining that our chicks are so HOT that even the angels would want them. This crap may have flown with ancient goat herders but anyone with half a brain today should know it is complete nonsense on every level.

30

evidence of angelic direction

by tank in

jw
friends

i just came across this on the official watchtover web site www.watchtower.org/ .

quote.

jehovah's witnesses spend more than a billion hours annually preaching the good news of god's kingdom.

Liberty

My wife was a Southern Baptist and they had exactly the same stories about themselves, as do Mormons, Moonies, Catholics, etc. Everyone who believes in make believe make up make believe stories to reinforce the "reality" of their fantasy/delusion. They also take a few real events that are not that miraculous and inflate them into super natural events.

Also, as others have pointed out, when you have a population of people where 95% claim to believe in God is it really a "miracle" that in a random door to door calling among such a population you are going to find someone who had just been praying? You have over a 90% chance of running across people who pray on a regular basis, big deal. Using this logic Angels must be assisting me in finding people who have had a bowel movement "that very same day" when I randomly meet people on the street.

26

Anyone recall the WTS's crazy notions about the literal "heart"?

by fahrvegnugen in

back in my dub days, i used to make copies of all the old recorded talks i could get my hands on.

in the process i was surprised to come across several talks in which the "faithful slave" tried to make the case that all the scriptures talking about the "heart" were not figurative, but referred to one's literal heart--the organ itself!

as i recall, they even incorporated some pseudo-scientific quotes as "proof" that the heart could effect your thoughts and motivations.

Liberty

This was definately part of Watch Tower "science" during the Fred Franz years. The ancient Egyptians believed the heart to be the organ of thought and emotion while they considered the brain was just for making mucos. In mummification the Egyptians didn't even bother to preserve the brain but pulled it out and discarded it as of no use in the after life. The heart however was carefully preserved. The Judgement by their gods was accomplished by weighing the heart of the dead in the nether world to determin reward or punishment.

This is, of course, where the Bible gets it's own false notions that the heart is the seat of our emotions and emminates the thoughts of good and evil for which humans are judged by God. This false belief was considered literal by the Society until the real evidence became so overwhelming that it was quietly allowed to dissappear from JW cosmology along with 7000 year creative days and the 1914 Generation. This heart nonsense was also used to justify the WTB&T Society's idiotic organ transplant ban from the same era which has also since been quietly sweept under the rug of JW stupidity.

If the Society were really "spirit" directed then why do they have to keep revising their belief systems?

40

Need Everybody's Help!!

by Metamorphosis in

jw
friends

ok - i've placed myself in a make or break situation.

i don't post a lot so you may not be familiar with me, but feel free to read my initial post on my situation.

a little has changed - i've now not turned in a service report the last two months (june and july) - first time in 25+ years, it feels great!

Liberty

You know your wife best. So if your instincts about her say to hit it harder that might be the way to go. I hope she can see the truth. Best of luck