Liberty

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Posts by Liberty

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  42

  At last finished reading Crisis of Conscience

  by diamondblue1974 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  and what an eye opener it was...dont get me wrong i faded some 10 years ago and the reasons for such were contained in the book, i.e 1914, failed prophecies and so forth.. the expose is disarming by its objective style and whilst i now read any literature through sceptical eyes i could see a person genuinely grieved by what had taken place and the crisis he was subjected to conscientiously; it said it all to me when he said that his aim was not to divert people from the jws but give them support so they could develop as christians and therefore allow them to come to their own conclusions (or words to that effect).. extremely well written and consise with reams of references (which i happen to love).. anyone that is recently out must read this book...it objective, honest and was totally surprising in parts.. db74

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  Liberty

  One of the biggest JW myths R. Franz proves a lie in C.o.C. is the nonsense promoted by the Society that God's earthly organization is spirit directed through the living remnent of the 144,000 who collectively and mystically leads the organization. It is very clear that the vast majority of this "special" class have absolutely no say in producing Watch Tower Society's dogma or administration. It was very clear that until the mid 1970's the Society was directed by the dictatorial powers of just one or two top leaders at any given time and even since the mid seventies by a small body of top leaders. One of the most influential of these leaders, Fred Franz (Ray's Uncle) admits that he always thought that the Society would be run by chosen individuals right down until the big "A" in direct contrast to what was written by this very same man for general consumption for the Rank & File JWs. The Anointed, as a class, never ran the Society and still don't today so the JWs are not even consistant within their own beliefs about the authority structure of the only "true Christian" organization. Fred Franz even fought the concept ( which he invented) of sharing power with the small Governing Body so there are even layers upon layers of contradictions within the thought patterns of the modern W.T. Society's chief prophet/scholar. Such confused thinking would never be allowed by a real intelligent super being like God in the leadership directing His organization.

  A great read! My only criticism would be my not understanding how such a bright fellow as R. Franz didn't take the next logical step in applying his intellegent skepticism to the Bible itself. The fact that he remains a Bible believer to this day is shocking to me. The power of tradition is very strong so in my opinion he remains himself "a victim of a concept", in this case traditional Christianity. This works out better I think though for any JW willing to examine his/her questions about the W.T. Society since reading a book by a full blown Atheist would stop many from learning the important information R. Franz has provided in his writtings.
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  138

  Guns: Opinions?

  by RichieRich in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mom isnt a big fan of guns, but after being mugged once, she appreciates the value of a well placed firearm.

  she doesn't mind that i hunt and go to the shooting range regularly with my father.

  about 6 months ago, i was out in field service with my mother and an elder's 2 daughters.

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  Liberty

  Hi Evilforce,

  I'm actually much better armed than with just a pistol but thats beside the point. Any weapon is better than no weapon. It doesn't matter if we are up against tanks ,bombs, or even nukes, just ask the Viet Cong. An enemy's will to fight is greatly affected by the casualties they are willing to take. Bullies and paid killers have a low tolerance for pain and death so governments rely on sending their armies against helpless victims who cannot fight back effectively rather than against anyone who can offer resistance even if it is only pistol or rifle fire. Also it takes small arms to capture larger weapons. That is why we dropped thousands of pistols to the various resistance fighters behind Nazi lines in WWII so that they could harass the enemy, break their will to fight, and capture larger weapons.

  Also think about it, if my measley guns are no match for the power of big government then why are they so eager to take them? Small scale rebellions against local police are much easier with my weapons than without. If my friends and family are jailed and tortured without just cause I am much better preparred to assemble an assault team to break in and free them than if I am armed only with butter knives. Police do not want to face angry well armed citizens, hence there are few cases of abuse in the US compared to countries which keep their civilians disarmed. Local police will not be as well armed as a military force and this is where it starts. I am out of time but at least think about it.
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  138

  Guns: Opinions?

  by RichieRich in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mom isnt a big fan of guns, but after being mugged once, she appreciates the value of a well placed firearm.

  she doesn't mind that i hunt and go to the shooting range regularly with my father.

  about 6 months ago, i was out in field service with my mother and an elder's 2 daughters.

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  Liberty

  Thanks Brandon,

  Our European friends on this board frequently amaze me with their anti-gun rhetoric ( not all and some Americans too) since they have seen first hand what governments do on a regular basis right in their own back yards. How can they ignor so easily the governments of Nazis, Fascists, and Communists who have murdered millions upon millions while at the same time being afraid of a few "red necks with assault rifles"? I'll take my chances with my fellow armed citizens any day over brainwashed hoards of 18 year olds given complete authority by governments over my life and property. If I can trust a Dr. to prescribe drugs or cut me open or my day care operator to keep my baby then I am perfectly comfortable with trusting them with weapons. Individual criminals and wackos are the least of our worries since statistically our chances of dying are far greater at the hands of a government.
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  138

  Guns: Opinions?

  by RichieRich in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mom isnt a big fan of guns, but after being mugged once, she appreciates the value of a well placed firearm.

  she doesn't mind that i hunt and go to the shooting range regularly with my father.

  about 6 months ago, i was out in field service with my mother and an elder's 2 daughters.

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  Liberty

  Hi RichieRich,

  For years the Watchtower Society has been pretty much anti-gun. A lot of it has to do with their headquarters being centered in New York as the most influential writers/leaders have been insulated from the rest of the rural U.S. in their cushy big city compound. Fred Franz was very anti-gun as I recall despite the fact that the Bible clearly states that the Apostles carried swords as active members of Christ's inner circle and at one point were even commanded to carry swords with them in their ministry work (I can't remember the scriptures but know they are there). This irrational fear of weapons goes along with their equally unscriptural pacifism. No where are soldiers commanded to leave their military units in the Bible as a condition for becoming Christians. As I recall one Roman soldier was even baptised on the spot by the Apostles with no mention of him needing to change his profession, or recieveing a timed Bible study and prewritten baptismal questions for that matter.

  When Freddie's influence was strong the Society even bad-mouthed hunting by always tying it in with the evil Nimrod and asking if we really needed such a suspect and time-wasting hobby when there was field ministry to be done. Once again the unscriptural opinions of a few men running the show from New York shapes what J-Dubs must do just like no facial hair or wearing a tie even though none of these points were important enough to be mentioned by the Bible writers.

  As to my own opinion, weapons in civilian hands are our last defense against the loss of freedom by the ever power hungry monster of government. Governments who are directly answerable to the deadly force wealded by their free citizens think more carefully before taking drastic actions than do governments which control unarmed subjects. If I am trusted enough to vote so then I should be trusted with weapons. The people need "the teeth of liberty" to protect themselves from government and any goverment which demands it be protected from an armed population through so-called "gun control" obviously does not have the people's best interests at heart. Only brute force can hold back the beast of government. Governments have always been the world's most prolific mass murderers so only a fool would lay down their arms and trust their naked and unprotected lives to these time proven monsters.
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  43

  Did our ancestors really live for hundreds of years?

  by pennycandy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for all you scientific brains out there .

  .. the bible claims lifespans of over 900 years.

  what does science say about this?.

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  Liberty

  JH & Doogie,

  I must have been writing at the same time you guys were. You made some great points and I didn't want it to look like I was just copying/mocking you.
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  43

  Did our ancestors really live for hundreds of years?

  by pennycandy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for all you scientific brains out there .

  .. the bible claims lifespans of over 900 years.

  what does science say about this?.

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  Liberty

  Hi Pennycandy,

  Like most of the Bible it's accounts of people living to almost 1000 years old is pure fantasy from all the available evidence I've seen. These stories are contemporary with other known cultures who left us written records from these times and none of them report humans living to such extreme ages. Even if other cultures did claim that people lived this long it would not be provable either but it is interesting that since no such claims are made it is very unlikely that people were even living to be 200 years old or someone would have noted it somewhere even as a folk tale or exaggeration. Most of the Archeological evidence leads us to believe people in these times lived about as long as we do today if they were lucky, healthy, and had enough food. If the Watch Tower's theory about people in ancient times being closer to perfection and hence having longer life spans was true then there should have been a lot of evidence of many people gradually dying at a younger and younger ages counting down from the upper 100's regardless of their cultures. The recorded reigns of Egyptian Kings for instance all show lifespans exactly in line with what one would expect from normal modern humans living under the conditions prevailent then in ancient Egypt.

  Think of the unique familial relationships which would have been noted by someone in talking about living alongside their own GreatGreatGreatGreat Grandparents/Grandchildren yet there is no mention of such. Why would Noah have only taken his children and their wifes on the Ark when clearly there should have been his Parents, Grandparents, Great Grandparents, etc. to include, not to mention his numerous generations of Grandchildren, Uncles, Aunts, Cousins etc. Surely they were not all evil since Noah got his righteousness from somewhere? Noah does not even mourn the loss of all these close relatives who would surely have been alive if everybody was living past 500 years or more. The Bible is illogical even within it's own context in this regard. People living to nearly 1000 years old is clearly sheer nonsense.
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  31

  No longer innocent

  by fairchild in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we are now approaching the year 2005, i am again going to all the meetings and most of my friends are jw's.

  however, i don't feel that 'love' for god, and i certainly don't feel that he listens when i pray, which i do every day.

  after talking about this with an elder, he suggested i study some more, and i am currently studying the book 'worship the true god'.

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  Liberty

  Hi Fairchild,

  Immerse yourself in the study of why you believe what you believe. Take University classes if possible on the real history of religion and the Bible. If classes are too expensive do more research yourself in the many great books available on these subjects. If you have the guilt to beat yourself up over your lack of belief then do something about it and find out if God is real and if the Bible is really His word. Ultimately, only you can convince yourself of what is "true" so make sure you can make an infomed choice.
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  30

  I hate feet

  by rebel8 in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  here in the "arctic" northeast, people are beginning to wear their sandals again.

  i hate sandal season.. there are a few people with good hygeine and ok looking feet that can pull off the sandal look.

  the rest should not be allowed into public without socks and shoes.. i am sick of seeing callouses, dry skin with foot flakes falling off, dirty feet, even worse--dirty toenails, toenails that have not been trimmed (i do not want to see anything but nails trimmed all the way down), corns, fungus, bunions, deformations, etc.

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  Liberty

  Hi Brooke,

  Those are hottie feet! I want to pinch all your little piggies.
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  55

  Did You Ever Think The "End" Was Going To Happen In Your Lifetime"?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  although i was considered an exemplary jw, i never really could see it happening.

  still don't.

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  Liberty

  It was my pleasure Crumpet. Never forget what an interesting life you have lived because of your "odd" background. Despite the fear and pain you have a wealth of experience that not many "Worldly" folks will be able to tap into. Use those hard won experiences to your advantage. I am a better father and a better person because of all that has happened and because I got started late I think I appreciate everything more. It may not have been the best path to take but it was MY path after I flushed Watchtowerism.

  I am not a natural skeptic but after being duped so badly by the Society I am now very cautious and skeptism is my new religion and I try hard to apply my "bull shit meter" to everything I hear, read, or want to believe. I do not want to be fooled again and thinking clearly for me takes alot of effort. I am now free to study and question anything I want and I make better use of this right because I know how it feels to be restricted. Nothing is off limits now to critical thinking and I love that there is no limit to knowledge seeking and that what we think we know or believe is always subject to change. You will be able to adapt to change more quickly now that you have lived through having the rug pulled out from under you. This " Wicked Old System of Things" is really kind to ex-kooks like us. You will do fine.
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  55

  Did You Ever Think The "End" Was Going To Happen In Your Lifetime"?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  although i was considered an exemplary jw, i never really could see it happening.

  still don't.

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  Liberty

  Hi Hondo,

  In answer to your question, I think alot of it has to do with "magical thinking" a concept which skeptics fight on many fronts such as Astrology, witchcraft, UFOlogy, religion, etc.. Alot of the appeal of being a JW is convincing yourself that you are so special that you have been chosen to know and "understand deeply" in your heart a secret that the majority are not capable of "seeing" and it is up to you to convince them that you have a special knowledge which can help them. The powerless feel impowered by such knowledge and as an added bonus all of their problems will be solved with the fulfillment of this special knowledge. If you just believe hard enough (magical thinking) you will never grow old or die and all your dreams will come true. This is a very powerful "drugfree induced euphoria" especially in the newly converted. Doing God's will also means being in constant contact with His energy so you are now associated with and tapped into the greatest power in the Universe. JWs are not the only folks seduced by this faulty mode of thinking since fanatics and kooks abound in every wierd belief system, JWs are bit different in that they don't have a clue that they are really "out there" whereas many of the other "magical thinking" kooks are a bit more self aware.