Posts by dontplaceliterature

20

Something's been on my mind...

by Vidiot in

..., and while i usually contribute in a thread that's already been created, i thought this particular topic might warrant it's own.. like many of you, on friday i was persusing the "concerned elder speaks" thread about higher-ed and the gb's ross/rachel relationship with it, and a couple of posts caught my eye:.

room 215 - "that's it, boys; alienate the remaining elders, drive them to resign and exacerbate the shortage already underway.".

baltar447 - "it's like they want fewer elders and servants.".

dontplaceliterature

@GrandmaJones,

You're right. I would never have considered picking through "apostate" websites before I started becoming "conscious." The only reason I stumbled across this one is because I was searching for a copy of a Kingdom Ministry online that I had lost a few months ago.

My previous perception of apostates was that they were just bitter axe-grinders and I detest people like that. So, even if I had doubts or reservations about Watchtower doctrine, I certainly would never have gone probing around on the internet for like-minded individuals.

I would say though, now that I've been here, that this website has fed my anger and frustration from the point of mild discomfort to full-blown disgust. So, I wouldn't write off the "information age" all together. However, I don't see it being the root cause of the implosion of the WTBTS. If anything causes a mass fall-out, I think it will be a major doctrinal change most likely dealing with 1914. Even that is highly unlikely, in my opinion. Its demise will probably be slow and steady as the younger generations refuse to be dedicated to serving the Governing Body.

102

New Information On Blood?

by EmptyInside in

i've overheard from a couple of elders,that they are going to be getting some new information on the blood issue.

now,i understand in the witness world,this could all be much ado about nothing.

but, does anyone know what this info could be?.

dontplaceliterature

I agree brotherdan. It'll just be another reason for me to hate the Governing Body. They had to wait for 2 old-timers to kick off before they could take a reasonable position on this issue. That is expecting that the new information would be reasonable, which is highly unlikely.

102

New Information On Blood?

by EmptyInside in

i've overheard from a couple of elders,that they are going to be getting some new information on the blood issue.

now,i understand in the witness world,this could all be much ado about nothing.

but, does anyone know what this info could be?.

dontplaceliterature

I was just told the same thing by an Elder in my area. He didn't say what exactly, but he said there was some new information coming out. We were having a direct conversation about my qualms with the Watchtower's Blood Doctrine, and he implied that this "new light" on blood would possibly ease my concerns.

We'll see.

64

Call me paranoid, but its possible that this 30 hour initiative is a weeding out process....a cull if you will...

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

we've discussed a few potential reasons why the wt is promoting april 2011 as a month of special activity.

reasons include manipulating statistics, and trying to provide some kind of spark to increasingly apathetic and discouraged congregations.

i'm sure there are others i'm missing too, feel free to include those.

dontplaceliterature

MLE

Admittedly, I hadn't thought of your point. I'm sure this is not a direct effort to "weed" anyone out of the congregation. However, I think it has serious potential for developing into that, especially if the arrangement goes on the books for good. I haven't heard any of the regular publishers talk about it, but my Service Overseer has already informed me that the entire Servant/Elder Body will be encouraged to pioneer to take the lead in spearheading this effort. We usually always get really good support from the Servant and Elder Body with Memorial Season Auxillary Pioneerng, so it'll be difficult to be on the only one out of 18 (13 Elders 5 Ministerial Servants) who does not participate. But, I don't plan on it yet. We'll see how strong the pressure gets. My guess is, a buttload of people in my congregation will jump on the band wagon, and once the feelings of self-righteousness set in and they won't shut up about how they've turned in their application, you'll feel like a total slacker if you don't participate.

I also appreciated the scripture from the letter about not doing anything "under compulsion." My heart hasn't motivated me to go in the ministry in a long time. It's always done under compulsion. I wish it weren't that way, but I can't dillude myself into thinking that going door to door amounts to a hill of beans. It is a total waste of time as far as actually benefitting the householder goes. However, I do think it's a nice opportunity to build friendship, and usually I go out with that spirit in mind. I just wish I didn't have to get up at 7:30 AM on a Saturday Morning to hang out with my friends for 2 hours in a car. I'd much rather be at Starbucks...and sometimes, that's exactly where we go after the meeting for service.

On a related side note:

I attended a Sunday meeting in Tennessee while I was visiting some family this past Summer. One of the first sisters I met asked me if I was a Pioneer, and rather than answer her question, I responded with one of my own: "Do you think Jehovah loves pioneers more than regular publishers?" She just looked at me funny like, "I can't believe he just said that to me." Then she followed after a brief hesitation with, "of course not." She didn't seem sincere.

Witness or not, I was a complete stranger, and I hate it when people try to gauge your spirituallity by what title you have especially when they don't know you from Adam.

46

I Joined The YMCA

by minimus in

jw
friends

i hope i don't get disfellowshipped for playing raquetball..

dontplaceliterature

...meh...I would think if you were in an ultra conservative congregation, the Elders might try to hang you on it. My body is far too liberal for something like that. They would just tell you not to tell anyone if they found out.

The Jehovah's Witnesses used to hold assembly's at local YMCA facilities. You can read experiences about it in the Yearbooks.

46

I Joined The YMCA

by minimus in

jw
friends

i hope i don't get disfellowshipped for playing raquetball..

dontplaceliterature

I don't think there is any current admonition to abstain from joining a YMCA by Jehovah's Witnesses. My wife and I were considering joining one, it's cheaper than the gym and much closer.

I looked into it HEAVILY and only found some articles in the 70s that had to do with it. They did specifically say that it would be an act of 'apostasy'. However, the organization no longer has any religious affiliations (other than the fact that their official creed says something about Judeo-Christian values). All of their money comes from corporate sponsers, members, and the government.

I seriously doubt you would get disfellowshipped for joining.

We did both decide that we should probably keep it private if we did join, just in case it bothered someone else's conscience.

22

Members of Governing Body preach door to door?

by ZionsWatchTower in

does anyone know if they still make this work?.

*sorry for my bad english.... .

dontplaceliterature

A few years ago, we had a visiting Governing Body member at our congregation for a few days (I won't say who, just to keep flying under the radar of any over zealous lurkers in my area). I was surprised that my Service Overseer called to remind me that I was going to be taking the lead for the entire congregation that Saturday (Even though I was a Ministerial Servant, and there was a visiting Governing Body Member). Nervous? Not too much.

To my surprise, he didn't even come to the meeting for Field Service. I guess it was silly of me to expect that he would be there. It would have been the perfect opportunity for him to build appreciation for the ministry among the flock, to encourage whoever was in his car-group, and show love to the brothers by engaing in the same form of slavery that we do. I know I would have been on Cloud 9 if a GB member invited me in the ministry with them. I actually said in front of the entire congregation..."Where is Brother [X]? I thought he'd be out in Service with us this morning? He must have had a long flight from New York or something."

He was scheduled to visit months in advance (at least 8 months). People talked about it NON-STOP. It made me sick how people seemed to worship the idea of him. It was as if he were Jesus Christ himself.

Now, granted, the guy was fantastic. I was very glad to have met him and talked to him. Great personality (or so it seemed) and very down-to-earth. Nice speaker too. Still, though, too much emphasis was put on his arrival. People from all over the State were begging to come to our Kingdom Hall. We had to post a sign outside and tell the brothers and sisters that the meetings that week were by "Invitation Only." There was an attendant who stood at the door receiving printed invitations. Rediculous.

I have never imagined the Governing Body went in the ministry, right or wrong.

29

I asked my best friend how the GB makes its decsions last night...

by dontplaceliterature in

jw
friends

my best friend does not know about my recent mental defection from the watchtower, but i am having trouble keeping my feelings from him completely....so, last night, i asked my him if he thought the governing body was always in 100% agreement about every policy/doctrine decision they make.

" i asked him how he thought they went about making those decisions and he said that, "they probably discuss it as a group, research it, read the bible together, and discuss it some more until they come to a conclusion...just like a boe would when deciding a judicial matter.

" i said: "don't you think that if they were jehovah's 'mouth-piece' and they are indeed being guided by jesus christ and holy spirit, that there would be no doubt about what the right course of action is?

dontplaceliterature

@sd-7

My wife already has reservations about the blood doctrine, and that's why i've chosen to explore this angle of opening her up.

I don't know that I really want to pry her away from Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't even want to be, at this point. If we exit, I'd rather shoot for a simulaneous exit. I love her and I wouldn't want our religious differences to come between us.

I'd just like to see her open up with questions and concerns about the society as much as I have. So, at least, we can research and discuss topics together without anyone feeling the other is "wrong" or "ambitious" or an "apostate."

56

If you could ask one question to an active JW to get them to open their mind about their beliefs, what would it be?

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

this question was posed to me by a poster named ice cream.

i don't know my answer yet.

it's one of those, "if you could have just one wish.." kind of questions.

dontplaceliterature

I don't believe in the Trinity, but there is a thorough discussion of the brochure "should you believe in the Trinity" by Christians who believe in the Trinity:
http://4witness.org/jwysbt/ysbt_contents.php
It's a long read, but addresses the context of all quotations made in the brochure.

@Pirata, the very first paragraph contradicts the Bible when it says that Jesus was not created. Colossians specifically calls him "The Firstborn of all Creation."

56

If you could ask one question to an active JW to get them to open their mind about their beliefs, what would it be?

by Franklin Massey in

jw
friends

this question was posed to me by a poster named ice cream.

i don't know my answer yet.

it's one of those, "if you could have just one wish.." kind of questions.

dontplaceliterature

@pirata

Timing is everything. You are on point, for sure. I don't think there is a "catch-all" question to rock someone's foundation in Jehovah's Witness doctrine. Although, I do think Ding's question is incredibly insightful.

If a Jehovah's Witness had a closed mind, they wouldn't be an talking to an "apostate" or visiting an "apostate" website. So, when would an active closed minded Jehovah's Witness really ever get the chance to hear such a good question, Ding?

Common sense told me that a number of our beliefs weren't scripturally defensible. That is what inspired me to keep reading when I stumbled on this site. Since I was already open to the idea that the GB had some things wrong, it was easy to confirm in my mind that my suspicions were well founded.

@Ding,

Please elaborate here, or via a PM to me about The Trinity and what the 'world's' acutally explanation is, if Jehovah's Witnesses have it wrong. I've always been taught that the Trinity was different depending on the person you asked. No one has ever explained it to me the same way as the previous person, and frankly, their explinations were silly, at best (It's like and Egg...apple...or some such illustration). I'll never forget asking my Sister-In-Law (a Methodist) to explain it to me, and she just sounded rediculous. Her boyfriend at the time was Bahai (sp?). He also found her explination silly. But, they do not believe in a Trinity either, nor do Muslims (largest religion in the world (if JWs are excluded from Christianity), nor the Jews. I would like to hear a good, common sense explination.

The Bible is pretty simple when it comes down to it. This should be something easy to understand if it is a fundamental teaching of God.