Posts by davidl7

220

2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis

by jwfacts in

the 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.

a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.

as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.

davidl7

jwfacts wrote " That is baseless comment. Where is the substantiation for that? There are only 7 million JWs, a completely insignificant amount compared the 7 Billion people on earth with other beliefs. I assure you, you and the other 7 million are not the only ones that are as dogmatic that they alone have truth."

I don't think it is a baseless comment to say that MANY who eventually became Witnesses or associated with the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses did so after finding out some of the basic bible doctrines of the Bible on their own, including the fact that Jesus is really the Son of God, that the meek will inherit a paradise earth, God's has a name (Jehovah/Yahweh), there is no trinity...and upon coming in contact with the Jehovah's Witnesses have come to know they have we have the truth. I speak to Witneses all the time about how their study of the Bible eventually led them to recognized that the Witnesses have the truth. Notice I said MANY...and that includes that 7.3 million who now actively and at least several million more who now actually join and participate in our Bible meetings but still do not actively preach (or still do not report their preaching activity, as two couples who recently started attending my congregation and informed me they will in discussion with their relatives about the Bible and have distributed our books to about 20 relatives)...Of course, it is a relatively small number compare to to the world population...but still many. That fact is it is not a baseless comment...but a TRUE comment...millions of people are MANY people...

jwfacts wrote " It is absolutely impossible. For one thing, even the leaders of your religion don't come to the same conclusions. Russell, Rutherford, Franz and now the new GB all come to different conclusions, and hence the ongoing "new light", which is really just the new leaders coming to different Biblical conclusions than the old leaders. Secondly, no one would come up with almost any of the prophetic interpretations, ie Revelation pointing to Rutherford and some Watchtower editions. Thirdly, even with a few core Watchtower teachings (which are borrowed) like the their Arianist anti-Trinitarian and Adventist based Soul sleep, the only way to come to these conclusions is to dismiss a number of contradictory Scriptures as figurative. This arbritary dismissal of any unacceptable Scriptures is why there are over 30,000 Christian religions all teaching other things."

Yes, but they all agreed on the basic teachings of the Bible including the identity of God, that Jesus is really God's Son and not part of a Trinity, that the holy spirit is the power of God, that the earth will be converted into a paradise, man is not immortal, God's name is Jehovah, the Kingdom of God is a real government that the prophets, Jesus and the apostles preached about and the the light of the truth keeps getting brighter and that false teachings must be discarded. And early on, even Russell wrote that he would discard any teaching that was wrong...he always cited Prov. 4:18, and sometimes spoke of what was currently understood as "present truth". He made errors...he taught, for instance, that that pyramid was God's Word in stone...but in his time, the light of the truth did not shine as brightly. By Rutherford's time a more clearer understanding of the Bible led to discard the teaching that the pyramid was God's Word in stone. Revelation chapters 2 and 3 said that the congregation in the beginning will tolerate certain teaching...but they have to be discarded. That is the important thing. To discard error and just keep that which is true. One would expect that the those associated with the true Chrisitian congregation would learn more and more of the truth gradually. But even back in Russell's days, the basic doctrines of the Bible were taught.

JWfacts " That is a loathsome comment, but typical of how arrogant, ignorant JWs become. You may try to claim that is a Bible teaching, but what you and your leaders really mean is anyone not following their current interpretation of the Bible is not accepting the Bible and hence depraved. Who are you to claim 7 billion people are depraved because they don't believe what you believe?"

"Your last three few comments keep echoing the same rhetorical fallacy. "Because some smart people believe the Watchtower, myself included, it must be true". I cannot understand how you don't see the flaw in that reasoning, as it is of the ABC's of poor reasoning."

My intention was not to say that billions are depraved for not aggreeing with what the Bible says. I will try to be more careful in what I write. They are many, as the Bible says in Romans 10:2 that have zeal for God, but not according to accurrate knowledge. And many, according to the Scriptures, will be sadly deceived and will not see the light of the truth (2 Cor. 4:3-6). When I quoted 2 Tim. 3:8-10, I should have qualified that by saying it is referring to those who knew the truth, but then opposed, and rejected the teaching of the apostle Paul, who was a member of the 1st Century faithful and discreet slave, and part of the 1st century GB. I didn't say anything about "smart people believe the Watchtower", but millions who study their Bible carefully and believe in what the Bible says, agree that the WT teaches the truth of the Bible...

220

2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis

by jwfacts in

the 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.

a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.

as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.

davidl7

cedars wrote " now that you have completed an extensive study of the Bible with the aid of Watchtower publications, I would urge you to undertake an extensive study of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society with the aid of the internet. I know this goes against everything you are taught, but if what you have is "The Truth", then what have you got to lose? Surely everything you have been taught should stand up to the closest of scrutiny? Also, the very fact that you are openly participating on this forum shows that you have a degree of bravado in engaging in dialogue with "mentally diseased" apostates rather than heeding the Society's instructions to refrain from doing so. I commend you for your courage, but I think this courage could be channeled into more productive intellectual pursuits."

Actually anyone reading the WT publications will note that numerous times it strongly encourages Bible reading...Anyone who has ever attended their Theocratic weekly Bible meetings, will know that it includes the reading of chapters of the Bible, and in addition to that Witnesses are encourage to read their Bible on a dialy basis, not just the WT publications. As I pointed out in prior posts, I, like most Witnesses, have studied the Bible carefully, reading it daily and examining to make sure that what I am being taught is really found and based on the Bible (Acts 17:11). I have an extensive library of other bible related books, representing different viewpoints, that are not published by the WT.

I have read Franz books, including Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom, but I do not agree with his viewpoints. He seems to emphasize that there is no such thing in the Bible as one Christian group or organization and that the truth can be found in other groups that have similar teachings to the Witnesses such as the Christadelphians or 7th Day Adventist. Problem with that is the Christadelphians do not believe that Jesus had a pre-existance in heaven. And 7th Day Adventist believe in the Trinity...and that is just one of the false teaching not found in the Bible and not taught by Jesus nor his apostles. He attacks the GB has being irresponsible. He appears to accept some of the WT fundamental teachings that he learned and agrees they are taught in the Bible. But from my reading of the Bible, there is only ONE Christian congregation founded by Jesus...an association of brothers organized to preach the good news, with some that were appointed as teachers, evangelizers, apostles, elders, etc. The apostles warned agains the teaching of another Jesus and against sectarianism. The Christian congregation would have to be active in preaching the good news of God's kindgom, as it was in the 1st century, and teach ALL the fundamental teachings of the Bible. The Christian congregation was composed and led by humans, who are IMPERFECT, and are prone to make errors. Rev. 2 and 3 says talks about some errors that congregations were involved in but they had to repent. Franz seems to expect almost perfection from a group of humans...but that is impossible because no human, even members of the GB, are perfect. Interestingly, he himself admits that at a meeting of the GB, that it was decided that elders should not be removed from their position if they decide to send their children to college, thus, confirming that the choice of going to college was a personal decision. I found somewhat alarming his comments on the divine name in his second book. When discussing the NWT translators decision to restore God's name in the Bible, he goes on to say, if I recall correctly, that other Bible versions had the name in the Bible, including the ASV and spanish Version Moderna. Why did he write that in that book, especially when that fact has been pointed out for years in the WT publications? That really led me to get suspicious of his motives. But just to attempt to be brief, I read his books and was not convinced by his way of thinking...

220

2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis

by jwfacts in

the 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.

a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.

as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.

davidl7

slimfatboy wrote:

"Well you can make a good case for this or that theology based on the Bible if you want. But whether you choose to believe the Bible or not, and whether you believe it teaches a Trinity or not, the situation remains that the organization of JWs does not allow you the dignity of freedom to explore these issues freely. It forbids members from considering the works of former members and it does not tolerare open discussion of alternative points of view at its meetings or even in private settings. If you doubt this then please tell your local elders that you are engaging in discussions on this site. In the end freedom is more important than doctrine, and you come to realise that doctrines whose legitimacy can only be maintained by the authoritarian control of thought and debate imposed by the organization turn out not to be worth defending after all."

Actually, there are many Witnesses that have the books written by James Penton and other ex-Witnesses. Carolyn Wah, a WT attorney who was authored several articles on the JWs in the Journal of Church & State , has read them. Firpo Carr, a Witness author and apologist, has read them. The Witness apologist who co-authored the book on the NWT entitled Your Word is Truth, have read them. Greg Stafford, while he was still a Witness, had read them. I read Penton, Franz, and Ron Rhodes. I know a few other people in my congregation, including an elder that read them...And also, there are many who have read books by ex-Witnesses prior to becoming Witnesses. True, the WT publications strongly discourage reading them. If you remember, a few years ago an article was written that some that were reading those books fell into doubt. Notice that the WT article did not say they are to be expelled. In fact, the article went on to say that they were helped to regain their faith...they were not expelled for reading those books. And it is true that books that do not tell the truth may harm one's faith...that is why the WT publications rightly quote the words of the apostle to avoid those who are apostates. However, at the same time, it has been admitted that many, even though they have read those books, remained strong in the faith, because they, to put it simply, know too much about the Bible. And I have met people who have converted to true Christianity, that told me they thought they were more than prepared to argue with the Witnesses after reading those books, but were impressed by our explanation of the Bible...and what moved them was NOT what the apostates wrote or said, but by what the Bible said...by reading the Bible for themselves and seeing what it says, and examining it daily like the Bereans (Acts 17:11), they came to agree that Witnesses really do teach the truth.

True, the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses will reject alternative viewpoints that do NOT agree with the Bible. Anyone, for instance, that want to starts a discussion in a congregation about allowing practicing homosexuals in the congregation will not be permitted. The elders may urge such as person to reconsider and try to review what the Bible says regarding that matter. While the Christian congregation is not homophopic, they cannot accept those are practicing sin in the congregation, as outlined in 1 Cor. 6:9-11. We are strictly biblical, and unlike other churches who waste time arguing whether or not those living a gay lifestyles should be allowed in their churches, Witnesses let the Bible speak for them.

220

2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis

by jwfacts in

the 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.

a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.

as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.

davidl7

JW "Facts" wrote:

"Actually, Witnesses count everything - publishers, meeting attendance, memorial attendees, pioneers et cetera. The reason they report only publishers as Jehovah's witnesses as, as only they will survive Armagedon. Their conservative reporting is actually a method of control."

Response -

Yes, I agree...what I am saying is that the number they use and quote as the official membership figure is the one that counts only the active publishers or preachers of the good news.

JW "Facts" wrote:

"As far as emotional stories of people coming to the religion, it is nothing unusual, as these experiences are parrotted by every religion. Many religions also claim to be the only true representation of the Early Church. And tens of thousands leave following the Watchtower Society each year and join other Churches, who then use the same false line of reasoning that you are using to indicate this somehow shows they are truth.

"Many claim extensive study of the Bible, myself included, and how come to different conclusions to yourself. I certainly doubt your claim of extensive Bible study and would suggest you have done extensive study of Watchtower publications that highlight a narrow range of Scriptures. It is impossible to Study the Bible extensively and arrive at what the Watchtower teaches."

Response -

True, many claim to study the Bible and read it, but in most cases are not really studying and are just using the talking points of their Trinitarian theologians. I have spoken to people, including pastors of churches, who claim they know their Bible, and then I have seen them consult their "How to Witness to Jehovah's Witnesses" type of books, and then are surprised that they cannot answer certain questions or find a reply to the very Word of God that I am quoting.

Many, who have studied the Bible on their own, have come to their own conclusions regarding the biblical truth that God is really one person, and that the One God of the Bible is God the Father (not Father, Son and Holy Ghost). They have come to conclusion that the soul dies and is not immortal. They have come to the conclusion that meek will inherit the earth and converted to a paradise. And they came to that understanding even prior to learning about what the Witnesses believe. Once in contact with the Witnesses, they recognized we had the truth.

You may say what you want about me...but I have studied the Bible extensively...I have large collection of Bible versions, commentaries, dictionaries, and comparative religion books that are not published by the WT. I even have some anti-Witness books in my collection. I still came to the conclusion that the Jehovah's Witnesses teach the truth of the Bible. IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE for those who are REALLY studying the Bible and seeking God, to come to same conclusion. Those who are really seeking God will be drawn to Jesus and God (John 6:44, 6:45). Only those who are "corrupt in mind" or "depraved in mind" (as some Bible versions put it ) will not accept the truth of the Bible, regardless of how they claim to study it - because they continue to "oppose the truth." (2 Tim. 3:7-8)

62

Where is the Statement That JWs Should Follow the GB Even If They Think They Are Wrong?

by Justitia Themis in

i am having difficulty locating the recent printed statement that jws should follow the gb even if they think they are wrong.

would someone please let me know where that is?.

jt.

davidl7

WERE YOU ONCE ASSOCIATED WITH JEHOVAH'S ORGANIZATION - WT 1/15/88, PAGES 22-23:

Did You Disagree With a Teaching?

It may be that you left Jehovah’s organization because you had a different understanding of some Scriptural point. Just as the Israelites rescued from Egypt quickly “forgot [God’s] works” on their behalf and “did not wait for his counsel,” you may hastily have concluded that since the organization did not espouse the viewpoint you considered correct, you would sever ties with it. (Psalm 106:13) Perhaps the point has since been clarified, either being changed or established by further Scriptural research under the direction of God’s spirit. Would it not have been better just to have stayed with the organization, waiting on Jehovah?

It is good to remember that Jehovah has always worked through one organization only. In our day, “the faithful and discreet slave” is dispensing spiritual food “at the proper time.” Note that this slave was to be ‘found doing so when the Master arrived.’ (Matthew 24:45-47) Really, who today realizes that the Master has already arrived? And who is busy with the work indicated? Only those associated with Jehovah’s organization of Christian witnesses!

When others abandoned Jesus, the apostle Peter said: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.” Peter knew beyond all doubt that Jesus was the Messiah. So when many disciples found some of Jesus’ words shocking, Peter realized that it would be unwise to leave the source of “sayings of everlasting life.” In time any doubt or misunderstanding would be clarified. (John 6:51-68; compare Luke 24:27, 32.) This is still the case today, as Jehovah progressively guides his servants in the way of truth.—Proverbs 4:18.

Return Now

“Do let us search out our ways and explore them, and do let us return clear to Jehovah,” implored the prophet Jeremiah. (Lamentations 3:40) Yet, some may still hold back, perhaps fearing a poor reception by those in the congregation. But what was the response when the prodigal son returned home? “We just had to . . . rejoice,” explained the father, “because this your brother was dead and came to life, and he was lost and was found.” (Luke 15:32) A similar warm welcome awaits those who ‘return to Jehovah’ with a sincere desire to do his will.—Compare Luke 15:7.

But the Christian congregation has not just been sitting back and waiting to welcome such ones if and when they decide to ‘come home.’ In Jesus’ illustration, the father ran out to meet his son when “he was yet a long way off.” Similarly, Jehovah’s Witnesses consider it a personal obligation to seek out those once associated and to help them back into Jehovah’s organization.

But what if an individual became guilty of serious misconduct while separated from Jehovah’s organization? Or what if someone had to be removed from association with God’s people because of serious wrongdoing but has since stopped engaging in unchristian conduct? The elders will know how to assist him in a kind and loving way so as to set matters straight with Jehovah. So anyone now desirous of returning and living in harmony with God’s will should make this desire known to the elders. “‘Come, now, you people, and let us set matters straight between us,’ says Jehovah. ‘Though the sins of you people should prove to be as scarlet, they will be made white just like snow.’”—Isaiah 1:18.

How kind, warm, and loving our heavenly Father is! And how patient he is and interested in each of us personally! Surely, he does not want us to be destroyed with this wicked system of things. (2 Peter 3:9) It was Jehovah who urged his ancient people: “Return to me, and I will return to you.” That same invitation stands today.—Malachi 3:7.

Time is running out, so do not delay. With Jehovah’s people, enjoy again the ‘abundant peace that belongs to those loving God’s law.’ “For them there is no stumbling block,” said the psalmist. (Psalm 119:165) Deep in your heart, do you love Jehovah’s law? If you are a dedicated servant of God, this is why you made a dedication to him. Nothing—yes, absolutely nothing—can be more important than restoring your relationship with Jehovah. Do not turn your back on him. Think about the matter carefully and prayerfully. If you have been missing the unity and warmth of Jehovah’s people, it is not too late to return to Jehovah’s organization. Do so without delay.

PEACE ON EARTH!!!!!

by davidl7 in

police storm church of the nativity to break up brawling priests:.

check out the video:.

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/28/police-storm-church-of-the-nativity-to-break-up-brawling-priests/.

davidl7

Police storm Church of the Nativity to break up brawling priests:
Check out the video:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/12/28/police-storm-church-of-the-nativity-to-break-up-brawling-priests/

220

2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis

by jwfacts in

the 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.

a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.

as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.

davidl7

jw"facts" - Perhaps I did not express myself clearly regarding the method of counting numbers...Actually both the WCC and WT are both accurate....however, as I was attempting to point out, throughout the years the WCC US number included both Alaska and Hawaii. In the past the JW Yearbook did not include Hawaii and Alaska in their US figures, as they were counted separately. This explained why the WCC US number seemed higher to some, since they did not realize that the WCC number included all 50 states, while the JW Yearbook listed them separately...that is all I was trying to say. I think it is better that the JW Yearbook is including all 50 states in their count.

You may not think that the method of counting members matters - but I think it is crucial to understand how church members are counted. Many who have studied the Witnesses and have been involved in conducting surveys on the religious landscape, point out that the WT method of counting members is extremely conservative. Witnesses only count those that actively preach and report their preaching activity. They just don't count anyone that regulary attend their Bible meetings. This is unlike other churches, which count inactive members, in some cases dead members, members that have left, etc....I think that information is crucial to know, especially for a statisician. Surveys involving the religious landscape in many countries always show a number that is at least double the official membership number published by the Witnesses. The complaint I read from professional statisticians and sociologists is NOT that the Witnesses overcount their members, but that they UNDERCOUNT their members. But that may be based on the fact that the Witnesses do not use the same generous method of counting even inactive or dead members as the churches do. One group seeking "honesty in numbers" is now using a different method of counting members and will refrain from counting members that have passed away or are no longer active in their church. That group is the 7th Day Adventists...they should be commended for modifying their statistics, which according to the auditor will result in a lower membership number...but even then, the 7th Day Adventists will be using a more "generous method" of counting members. See:

http://news.adventist.org/en/archive/articles/2011/10/09/adventist-church-membership-audits-planned-revised-figures-contemplated

I have read some who hold the point of view that the Witnesses growth has slow down, thanks to the Internet. But I don't really buy into their argument...it is true growth has slow down, but unlike, other groups, it has continued to grow. Other groups have not only slowed down, but are in decline. Recent news reports, point out that young people are leaving the Evangelical churches in droves....did the Internet do that...or could it be some other variables causing the decline...what about the mainline churches...they have declined dramatically in the last 2 decades...can you blame just the Internet on that...or are there other causes for that? Christendom in Europe has gone down the tubes, if the news and reports published with the last 5 years are to be believed.... an yet biblical Christianity (aka Witnesses) have at least maintained or grow in most European...unlike the churches in Europe, the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses are not on the verge of extinction...And as I pointed out earlier, Witnesses use perhaps the most conservative method of counting their members...but still show some growth.

I am certainly not deluded. My conclusion is based on an extensive study of the Bible and I firmly believe that Bible teaches that Jesus only found 1 Christian congregation that were to be witnesses of both Jesus and Jehovah. The book of Acts does not show the existence of several churches. The letters by the apostles warned against secretarianism and taught that their would be 1 faith...the NT warned against false teachings and agains those teaching another Christ. I get very happy when I hear of new ones coming into the Truth, joining the ranks of the true followers of Jesus. I visited a different congregation and spoke to a new family attending the congregation. They were Catholic, but then joined the Pentecostals. From the Pentecostals they learned from the Bible that you cannot pray to statues and that the Pope is not infallible. Then they became 7th Day Adventists. The couple explained to me that due to personal Bible reading, they came to the conclusion that the soul dies, and when comparing Bible encyclopedias, they also came to the conclusion that hell is mainly the grave, and the word translated hellfire is really Gehenna, which they now understood Jesus used as a symbol for eternal death...so they joined the Adventists. Further Bible reading lead them to believe that Jesus is really the Son of God and not part of a Trinity...now they are regularly meeting with the Witnesses and have left the Adventist Church...see that Truth from the Bible is not taught in all churches...and many are now finding the Truth...I would not be surprised if in the very near future the growth percentage of the Witnesses will grow dramatically as all those who are joining us become baptized and start sharing with us fully in sharing and preaching the good news of God's Kingdom.

220

2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis

by jwfacts in

the 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.

a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.

as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.

davidl7

slimfatboy wrote: "Yeah that's fine, but why report it as if it was an increase? It would have been easy enough to add the figures together, and work out the increase over the previous year of the two areas combined over both periods. In fact I think that is what they did when they added Alaska, so there is a precedent.
Personally I am inclined blame incompetence rather than mendacity, but you never know.
I am open to the idea that JWs may continue to grow well, although I would prefer if they declined, or better still imploded in some dramatic fashion. But regardless of the way the numbers go the fact nevertheless remains that JWs teach a lot of nonsense that many rightly find insulting to their sense of ethics/aesthetics as well as their intelligence."
Yes, but the full number is the one that is always reported by the WCC's Yearbook of American and Canadian Churches, which explains the discrepancy in the figures between the JW Yearbook and the YACC stats. The WCC stats, which usually come out in Feb., are always a year behind. So I think including all the US states in the total figure is an improvement. Anyway, the Witness figures only include active publishers and does not include the even faster growing number of those that regularly attend their Bible meetings. Many who are joining, according to my conversations with people who have been attending regularly, have come to believe that the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses teach the truth of the Bible...a basic teaching is the identity of God and Jesus. Some who were members of other churches have come to find the true Jesus of the Bible, who is really the Son of God, and have come to know and give praise to the God and Father of Jesus Christ, whose name is Jehovah. (Ephe. 1:3; John 3:16, 36; 1 John 4:8-14; John 17:3, 2; Exo. 6:3; Exo. 3:14, 15). And I agree with them...but I certainly disagree with your point of view that they "teach a lot of nonsense". Instead I believe they represent the true Christian congregation with the same teachings that were taught in 1st century congregation.

74

Two Elders just left.

by mouthy in

jw
friends

how wonderful it was... i saw two women over the road knocking on doors .

i could see they were jws...i prayed & asked they would call here... but no!!!!

the lord sent two men!!!!elders!!!!

davidl7

That Bible text does not apply to Witnesses because they never claimed to be inspired prophets...only claimed to interpret the Bible prophecies while at the same time not claiming infallibility...Even Russell said that the final end is not know and that he is not an inspired prophet and that what he expects to happen a certain year may not occur till a hundred years latter...

But how does that compare to other churches like the Catholic Church which claim papal infallibility and other churches, such as the Pentecostals and Evangelicals, which believe in the gift of prophecy...does not history show that they made false predictions (not merely false expectations)? Would that not qualify them as false prophets since they believe in infallibility and believe in the gift of prophecy?

220

2011 Watchtower publisher statistics with analysis

by jwfacts in

the 2012 yearbook has released the publisher statistics for the 2011 service year.

a scan of the report can be found at http://www.jwfacts.com/images/2011-publisher-report.pdf and i have started updating the graphs at http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/statistics.php.

as expected, it is following on from similar trends to the last 15 years.

davidl7

slimfatboy wrote:

"I am not so sure. The 15 minute rule was introduced, what, like nearly a decade ago. Just how long exactly can it go on being blamed for increases? Logically it would have resulted in a one time increase. not recurring year on year gains indefinitely. And how many inactive parents are there having studies with their children anyway? I am not sure I understand this point.

My own congregation seems to be on a slow decline, and that despite a few recent converts.

It would be good to have some independent check on the number of Witnesses in the UK, but unfortunately the census question on religion in the UK was pretty useless."

I agree to a certain extent...but even before that so-called 15-minute rule...Witnesses were always told to report what they preached no matter how small...the 15-minute rule in effect was not something new...actually, if the Witnesses want to show their REAL INCREASE in number, they would include the figures of all those that regularly attend and participate in their meetings...that would definately more than double the membership and would be on par with the way other churches count their members.