Posts by fulltimestudent

194

Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

by minimus in

jw
friends

so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

men should be less masculine.

fulltimestudent

Quote: FTS - The Bear Grylls programme was nothing but light entertainment. Interesting but anecdotal.

I agree, Cofty, so I find it hard to believe (unless I've missed something) that this 'entertainment' is being offered as evidence of female incompetence. I think you would agree with that.

I do think there is at least some difference between male and female thinking that is likely the result of the processes you have already described. But we should not fall into the trap of thinking that its all standardised and final. It seems those processes produce a range of results with a wide range of what we call femininised/masculinised behaviours. All the people in the TV series we've discussed would have done better if they had had some good bushcraft training.

Quote:The evidence that matters is from neuroscience and evolutionary psychology.

Again I agree. If we do not depend on 'evidence' for our lives and minds, then we may as well go back to believing that yhwh or jesus or buddha or some other deity will tell us how to live and fix up all the hassles for us.

Quote: Babies are not blank slates.

And again. I agree. However, to continue your descriptive terminology, their minds are still like slates. Their minds will be influenced by their life experiences, (Imagine a young boy brutalised by an aggressive father, he grows up to be a similar adult to his father. Is that because of too much testosterone? Or, is it the training he received? Or, is his mind influenced by a sense of injustice and seeking revenge?). Nor, should we forget the role of culture. The culture that prevails in the society in which we live will be transmitted to us in many different ways.

6

The Young & not so young taking drugs @ Music Festivals in OZ.

by smiddy3 in

music festivals are supposed to be entertaining events for young and old alike ,so why is it that so many youths and one`s in their twenty`s & thirty`s are being treated for drug overdoses at these venues ?.

their is so much information about the dangers of using drugs at these events or anywhere else ,why do they do it ?.

they put their own life at risk and traumatize those that try to treat them ?.

fulltimestudent

If the government opts for the pill-testing option will the pill peddlers start selling "genuine pre-tested products?"

And, if someone has a pill tested and still becomes ill, is there a legal liability attached for someone. If there is, I think the promoters should provide the pill testing service and carry the legal responsibility, though I'm guessing that there may be many less shows then.

Also, what's wrong with letting drug takers die? The country will then be better off and the average IQ will increase.

194

Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

by minimus in

jw
friends

so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

men should be less masculine.

fulltimestudent

Also found this discussion of what appears to be the same show already referred to previous comments.

Its published in New Statesman America, and to my surprise it seems that there were three different series, with what may be called different outcomes.

I should point at that the author was a woman ( Anna Leszkiewic) so some comments could have bias, it could be argued.

In the three series referenced there appears to have been different outcomes, with the women coming off best in the last. (Read her thoughts and see what you think!!)

https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/tv-radio/2016/04/outrageous-sexism-island-bear-grylls-might-be-what-makes-it-great-show

Quote:"The men had been struggling from the start: as soon as their boat hit the shore, Bradford’s 26-year-old Riz broke down sobbing, explaining he was “getting emotional”. The rest of the men waited awkwardly for him to stop crying (offering such useful support as, “he’s properly crying!”, “fuck, man” and “we shouldn’t be moving with that”) before beginning their hunt for a habitable spot. They had to stop several times on their trek for him, spending their first night in the middle of a dense forest."

Compare that viewpoint, with the women:

Quote: "The women, meanwhile, led by army veteran and amputee Hannah, and 57-year-old retired farmer Erika, had found a habitable campsite and food sources, immediately built a fire, and settled in rather comfortably by the end of day one. Hannah, in particular, refused to slow the group down, despite having several issues with her prosthetic leg."

Which brings me back to the point I made earlier about cultural influences. All these people were from the same general cultural group, but with different experiences in life (if you like, with different sub-cultural influences.

The young male who cries on the first day has a different sub-cultural experience to the ex-army, one legged woman and the woman ex-farmer who seem to have become leaders for the female group.

So now I'm wondering, did Bear Grylls select people who may illustrate his arguments, or were they selected randomly? What do you think? If it had been a genuine scientific experiment the participants would have had to be selected randomly to prevent the selectors possible bias influencing the outcom

194

Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

by minimus in

jw
friends

so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

men should be less masculine.

fulltimestudent

It would be interesting to know the background of all the men in the group. Did they all participate and contribute equally? Did some become leaders, driving the activities that would have led to their survival in a real life context?

And, to what extant was culture an influence?

I.m not disagreeing with the conclusions of this study, just thinking aloud.

It is interesting to compare that experiment with some real life situations, for example the seamen in the well-known Mutiny of the Bounty. There seem to be somewhat similar similar outcomes among the crews of Dutch ships wrecked on the W.A. Coast.

Some of the difficulties experienced have been dramatised (sort of) in the fictional, "Lord of the Flies. This novel/film used a group of boys to make its point. Which therefore makes a point of view that the novelist chose. Do we too, tend to have a P.O.V. and then look for evidence to support our P.O.V.

Similarly, with the women. Again. I think it's interesting to attempt to analyse their experience, first by their backgrounds and secondly by the cultural influences in their lives.

I have not had time to read all comments, so I apologise if what seems to be the show that Cofty referred to has already been referenced already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbQEEMhHWaE

194

Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

by minimus in

jw
friends

so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

men should be less masculine.

fulltimestudent

A previous poster posited the view that if we were in a situation where we were being attacked by terrorists we may be looking for some 'manly males' to defend us.

Throughout history there are many examples of women fighting in as deadly fashion as men. For example, in Greek mythology, the Amazons (Greek: Ἀμαζόνες, Amazónes, singular Ἀμαζών, Amazōn) were a tribe of women warriors related to Scythians and Sarmatians.

They had a reputation for being brutal and aggressive, and their main concern in life was war.

Another example! It was the custom among the Khitan, (or Qidan as they are known in Chinese, who were a nomadic people originating in eastern Inner Mongolia), for men and their wives to ride into battle together.

In S.E. Asia women were also warriors. * https://www.crcpress.com/Women-Warriors-in-Southeast-Asia/Rettig-Lanzona/p/book/9781138829350 )

And, in many modern nations, women serve in the armed forces

For some Asian States today see: https://thediplomat.com/2013/03/women-warriors-break-down-barriers-across-asia/2/

So why make our cultural norms the only correct cultural view and totally ignore the myriad other cultural norms that can be seen in history.

PS. When I was young and first associating with the JWs, a friend has a bible study with a man, whose wife would bash him with a hammer if he went to meetings.

That (written with a smile) is the sort of person I want near me if I'm attacked by terrorists.

Our western cultural concept of women as weak and defenceless is a distorted view that is not supported by history.

If you want to girls - go get the terrorists!!!!

11

Australia Day.

by zeb in

jw
friends

happy oz day all ye fellow aussies..

fulltimestudent

Don't always go to National day celebrations, but I did last night. Went to the ABC (owned by the Australian government) organised Australia day concert held at Circular quay.

Better than any I've been to in the past, that were organised by commercial TV networks.

Great to see that it was quite inclusive, with some Indigenous people features along with many migrants telling their stories. And interesting to hear the National Anthem sung in an Aboriginal language.

Fireworks were quite impressive also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8Vttx8nO-o

2

Why did One of Jewish Cultures Most Important (but not named in the Bible) Influences Die?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

who is that influence?

why alexander the great, of course.

why was he such an important influence on the development of judaism (and later on an influence on early christianity)?.

fulltimestudent

Who is that Influence? Why Alexander the Great, of course. Why was he such an important influence on the development of Judaism (and later on an influence on early Christianity)?

Because he conquered much of West Asia and opened the way for Hellenic (Greek) culture to influence both Judaism and early Christianity.

So what killed this relatively young man? Previous theories often saw alcoholic poisoning as the likely reason.

But Dr Katherine Hall, ( A senior Lecturer at the Dunedin School of Medicine NZ and a practising clinician) claims that the most likely explanation, is that Alexander died as a result of a neurological disorder Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS).

DR Hall collected all the extant ancient information on Alexander's death and argues that GBS offers the best explanation.

You can read the abstract for her paper in the current bulletin of The Ancient History Bulletin. If you want to read the full paper, it will cost you $1 (its an Open Access Journal)

Abstract: "The most striking feature of Alexander the Great’s death is that, despite being extremely unwell, he was reported to have remained compos mentis until just before his death. Combined with evidence that he developed a progressive, symmetrical, ascending paralysis, it is argued that he died from a sub-type of the autoimmune disorder, Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS), most likely induced from a Campylobacter pylori infection. GBS could also account for the reported lack of decay of his body, and his death may be the most famous case of pseudothanatos, or false diagnosis of death, ever recorded.""

https://ancienthistorybulletin.org/

Of course, we will likely never really be able to confirm what killed Alexander, but GBS seems to fit.

Footnote: If Alexander had not conquered West Asia, those young Levites ( in Maccabean times) in the temple, may not have wanted to get naked at the local Greek gymnasium or try to disguise their circumcised penises. Greek may not have been spoken by any early christians, And Paul may not have decided that he could get better results from preaching to gentiles than to Jews.

194

Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

by minimus in

jw
friends

so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

men should be less masculine.

fulltimestudent

em1913: "That's not because I'm hawwwwt baby, it's because these little turds think they're putting me in my place, whatever that might be."

You've got a cool reaction to these kids. But assuming your right, how did they learn this behaviour. Why would the want to put you into any place? Was it instinctive? Or was it a cultural meme, passed on by male relatives or associates?"

Your response is common. In China, the same sentiment is expressed when someone calls out, " diu lei lo mo! (屌你老母 or 𨳒你老母), "go f*** your mother!_

But repartee aside, without understanding why such young men are motivated to act like this, we may never change what appears to be deep-seated behaviour.

16

Artificial Intelligence and 2019

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i was intrigued by a forecast made by damo academy, the in-house technology and science research arm of china's, huge e-commerce business,, alibaba.. they seem to be predicting the following technology trends for 2019 and that artificial intelligence would continue to be the ho area of progress.. so what do any techies hanging out here think?

safe predictions?

wild guesses?

fulltimestudent

Simon: "What gets hyped as AI is invariably pattern matching. I've yet to see any example of AI that is actual AI. It's all hype. Computers can pattern match against increasingly complex models with masses of data at high speed ... but it's not intelligence."

Thnx for your comment Simon. I guess that is indicative that your opinion on AI remains about the same as when this was last discussed.

But, I wanted to ask, Is pattern matching (of any type) a mark of some sort of intelligence. ?

Here's an extract from a Wikipedia on the topic: (and apologies for such a long cut and paste).

"In psychology and cognitive neuroscience, pattern recognition describes a cognitive process that matches information from a stimulus with information retrieved from memory.[1]

Pattern recognition occurs when information from the environment is received and entered into short-term memory, causing automatic activation of a specific content of long-term memory. An early example of this is learning the alphabet in order. When a carer repeats ‘A, B, C’ multiple times to a child, utilizing the pattern recognition, the child says ‘C’ after he/she hears ‘A, B’ in order. Recognizing patterns allow us to predict and expect what is coming. The process of pattern recognition involves matching the information received with the information already stored in the brain. Making the connection between memories and information perceived is a step of pattern recognition called identification. Pattern recognition requires repetition of experience. Semantic memory, which is used implicitly and subconsciously is the main type of memory involved with recognition.[2]

Pattern recognition is not only crucial to humans, but to other animals as well. Even koalas, who possess less-developed thinking abilities, use pattern recognition to find and consume eucalyptus leaves. The human brain has developed more, but holds similarities to the brains of birds and lower mammals. The development of neural networks in the outer layer of the brain in humans has allowed for better processing of visual and auditory patterns. Spatial positioning in the environment, remembering findings, and detecting hazards and resources to increase chances of survival are examples of the application of pattern recognition for humans and animals.[3]

There are six main theories of pattern recognition: template matching, prototype-matching, feature analysis, recognition-by-components theory, bottom-up and top-down processing, and Fourier analysis. The application of these theories in everyday life is not mutually exclusive. Pattern recognition allows us to read words, understand language, recognize friends, and even appreciate music. Each of the theories applies to various activities and domains where pattern recognition is observed. Facial, music and language recognition, and seriation are a few of such domains. Facial recognition and seriation occur through encoding visual patterns, while music and language recognition use the encoding of auditory patterns."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_recognition_(psychology)

194

Is Being a “Manly Man” a Bad Thing?

by minimus in

jw
friends

so much is said regarding men , in a negative way.

shaving commercials are now lecturing us as to how bad we really are.

men should be less masculine.

fulltimestudent

None of the information in my last post, however explains why I could sometimes use the term, "toxic" masculinity.

If you object to the term, I ask why?

Consider, In Australia, in the last two years, a woman a week has been murdered by her husband, de facto, partner or whatever term used to describe their relationship

And only last week, and attractive young Israeli exchange student was raped and murdered by a young man. This led to a number of protests demanding that the streets be made safe for women to walk alone at night. No-one explained how that can be done, though.

But the elephant in the room question is, Why do some men do things like that? Is it an instinct hidden deep in our collective psyche, inherited from our ancient ancestors?

Or, is it a cultural meme, shared by some men (but not all)? When we get in a group of men watching an attractive young woman pass by, what do you think of the too common conversation, often along the lines of, "look at that b****, I'd like to f*** her."

If you heard such a conversation in an all-male group, what did you do/say?

No need to comment, just reflect.

Footnote: I lay no personal claim to perfection, and do not attribute perfection to any other male or to any female.