My Gay XJW Friend's Decision Concerning His Relationship With His Partner

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i've often spoken of my xjw friend and his younger chinese partner.

my friend was kicked out of yhwh's "clean" organisation when he was around 60. .

before he became a witness at around age 17-18, he did appreciate that he was attracted to other guys.

fulltimestudent

Interesting reactions!!

Steve 2 mentioned threesomes. My friend's case is not a threesome. He and his partner's experience is more like a trial and error experiment in an orderly succession for the younger partner, in finding a new partner before the demise of his previous partner.

If he waited, until my friend died, he may have missed his chance for a new life partner who really attracted him.

But since Steve2 mentions threesomes, let's look at a bible example, according to Leviticus 20:14 "And if a man takes a wife and her mother, it is wickedness,"

So maybe that was a problem among the proto-Israelites.

And, since YHWH blessed Abraham and his multiple wives,I guess we can construct an argument that YHWH blesses men who want multiple partners.

And many followed Abraham's example,. for instance:

Jacob’s sex life is more bizarre still. He purchased his first wife Leah from her father, then married her sister Rachel. Rachel’s servant girl Bilhah soon joined them “as a wife” for at least two children [Genesis 30:3-4]. Then Leah’s servant girl Zilpah made it a happy fivesome [Genesis 30:9-11]. Just imagine the happiness of Jacob with 4 women in his bed at once, (Not sure how they all participated at the same time - but the bible does not forbid anal sex with women.

and more XXXsomes followed:

These lucky guys were not alone. Lamech took two wives. Esau had three. Gideon had many wives. King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. ( Can you imagine that these women waiting for Solomon to pick them for a night of fun, did not have lesbian sex with each other?). Rehoboam took 18 wives, and 60 concubines. Abijah had 14 wives. Caleb had children with at least two partners. David had eight wives, an unknown number of concubines and a relationship with Jonathan (Jonathon was better than women, so David declared. What do you think he meant by that?).

There are others we know of and many we don’t.

Then jesus comes along an spoils the party, forbidding divorce and remarriage and alsoPaul saying elders should be husbands of one wife (could ordinary members of the christian congregation have a 3some?), although it is suggested by some scholars that bible writers wewre influenced by the self-declared Roman god, Augustus, who before jesus got going, made a law forbidding divorce and remarriage,

All that, of course, raises the question of whether humans are really monogamous?

Finally today, I'm curious. caves sees red flags flicking up, but what aspect of this discussion are the red flags flagging? He does not make clear what he fears.

10

My Gay XJW Friend's Decision Concerning His Relationship With His Partner

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i've often spoken of my xjw friend and his younger chinese partner.

my friend was kicked out of yhwh's "clean" organisation when he was around 60. .

before he became a witness at around age 17-18, he did appreciate that he was attracted to other guys.

fulltimestudent

I've often spoken of my XJW friend and his younger Chinese partner. My friend was kicked out of YHWH's "clean" organisation when he was around 60.

Before he became a witness at around age 17-18, he did appreciate that he was attracted to other guys. And, he did force himself (after becoming a JW) to only think of girls. He claims he did nothing wrong sexually for decades and genuinely believed that YHWH or jesus had "fixed" him up, The quite suddenly his feeling's of attraction to males returned, he gave into temptation (from a JW perspective) and was subsequently expelled from the jws.

After feeling suicidal he met a young Asian guy one day who had the knack of making him feel better about himself. They entered into a relationship at a time when my friend was a youngish 60 and his new partner was a mature 28.They have had about 30 years together and have helped each other to prosper through those years. Now my friend is in his early 80s and his partner is close to 60. Both have been wondering how the younger partner will spend his last years after my friend dies.

Recently, the younger partner has met another Chinese guy in his early 40s and they have become close friends. Now, so far that friendship does not seem to have become sexual. But the YP's (younger partner) new friend has been going through a rather nasty divorce, and while there is no sign that he has ever been attracted to other males, he does seem to be very close to the YP, who admits to being strongly attracted to his new friend

So, my XJW friend and his partner have been having discussions about what comes next and how to handle the situation. My XJW friend is being realistic about the situation. He realises the age gap means that his YP may face years of loneliness when he dies. And has come to the decision to assist his YP to develop the friendship with his new friend and not to oppose it.

He feels that if he truly loves his partner, he must think of his YPs future after his own death

But, the real crunch came when the YP suggested that if his friendship with his NF (new friend) becomes sexual and a full relationship, then the three of the them could live together.

However, my friend feels that while he can encourage his YP's new friendship and sees the logic of his YP's suggestion, he just cannot face seeing them sleep together night after night, and would prefer to reject that offer. When we discussed the situation he thinks he would move to Cambodia where another friend of his is now living.

So, on one hand he can have security and be well-looked after in his last years, albeit without a sleeping partner, OTOH, (in my opinion) he can move to Cambodia and face an uncertain future should he become frail or have failing intellectual powers, There are apparently good medical facilities in Phnom Penh, but who would/could take on the responsibilities of looking after him?

I'm not sure if his decision is either realistic or practical (regarding his own future). Its a complicated situation and its been hard to explain.

43

Animals

by unsure in

if humans have to suffer to have free will and to disprove satan's challenge to god as mentioned in the bible...then why the f*ck do animals have to suffer as well?

.

satan's challenge involved humans and not poor animals.. i'm looking for an honest explanation from believers.. at this point, the older i get, the less i believe in a god who is "love"..

fulltimestudent

Sorry no time to read all comments, so I hope no-one else has noted this point.

Psalm 104 is a song of praise to YHWH and in verse 21 the psalmisst makes this remarkable statement that clarifies the psalmists view about animal to animal cruelty.

"The young lions roar after their prey And seek their food from God.

This can be read to say that YHWH made lions with an instinctive drive to kill other animals for food. And, that some animals were created to be food for predators.

Good on you YHWH the god of love

20

Films with nudity

by neat blue dog in

i guess every jw has a different conscience on the matter, and i don't believe any jw publications have ever specifically mentioned nudity in film as being off limits.

of course genitals are out of the question because that's usually relegated to r movies which most good jws don't view.

female toplessness is condoned but not spoken about, as most jws i know have seen titanic and many own it.

fulltimestudent

And, sometimes we can be shocked by what a respected JW actually believes. When I was a good, obedient, non-questioning jw, I was floored when visiting a highly respected Brisbane elder that I had been friends with for years.

He said to me, "I wish the society would stay out of our bedrooms.:

I was puzzled and responded, "What are you thinking of?"

Then came this surprising statement: "I mean, that its none of their business if I have anal sex with my wife!"

Wow! But he was right, of course. The bible nowhere forbids having anal sex with a woman.

The JW leadership starts teaching on this topic by imagining that both anal and oral sex were first practised by homosexuals. There is no evidence that that is the case, at all. Its much easier to think that men attracted to men or even men deprived of women used heterosexual practises when they wanted to have sex with another male.

Sometimes the argument that god made sex for procreation is also used in the above discussion. But, at least for humans, sex is used for recreation, not procreation,

18

Sentinel Island: Rewards for Those Who Expand Their Ministry, Blessings Await You!!!!!

by moomanchu in

jw
friends

"can you serve where the need for kingdom publishers is greater?".

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/22/asia/north-sentinel-island-worlds-isolated-tribes-intl/index.html.

the message of jehovah’s kingdom by christ has already gained grand triumphs throughout the earth because he backs up and blesses the preaching of this “good news” by his witnesses in all the inhabited earth.

fulltimestudent

A willingness to die for your faith is a common meme in christianity.

Ignatius, the bishop of Antioch in Syria was arrested sometime around 110 C.E.evidently for his christian activity. He was not tried in Antioch. but was sent to Rome (with an armed guard) for a trial and likely execution. During the journey to Rome various local congregations greeted him and he in turn later wrote to them updates about his feelings and reactions. Seven of these letters have survived. One of them ( the letter to Roman Christians) is remarkable, as it pleads with the Roman Christians not to interfere with his trial. Ignatius makes it clear that he wants to be torn to pieces by wild animals as a martyr for Jesus.

Here's some extracts from this letter:

May I have the good fortune to meet my fate without interference....

Grant me no more than to be a sacrifice for God while there is an altar at hand/

The greatness of Christianity lies in its being hated by the world.

I would rather that you fawn on the beasts so that they may be my tomb and no scrap of my body be left. This, when I have fallen asleep ... Then I shall be a real disciple of jesus christ.

What a thrill I shall have from the wild beasts that are ready for me.

----------------------

I suggest that a basic instinct in all life is an instinct to survive, Yet somehow this desire is perverted in some christians and replaced by the attitude exhibited by Ignatius,

And JWs are not the only ones who exhibit this meme. As well as the young man discussed in this thread, there have been a few cases of a similar fate for some christians who have wanted to 'convert' some north Koreans.

19

The Worst Year to be Alive? Answer: Most likely to be 536 CE

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i was a witness, since the early 1950's, to the relentless claims of the wt society (then synonymous with jws) that this was the worst of times to be alive.

if i had been more questioning and less accepting, i would never have become a shill for these apologists pf the murderous yhwh and his accomplice jesus,.

so how interesting to see today an opinion in science journal that:- .

fulltimestudent

Bill, i could not argue with your comments on WW1, at least regarding the technological advances that became evident in that war. I was mistaken in my comment that machine guns were used in the ACW, but the quotes I ioffered above indicate that there is an opinion held by some historians that 'modern' warfare was initiated during the ACW.

My initial comments focused on the terminology of this statement, "the first industrialised war in history" I proposed that that honor (or dishonor) belonged to the ACW,

You now want to change ths topic of discussion ever so slightly by saying, "However, World War One was the first time in which modern industrialised countries went to war with one another."

The ACW as the term implies was a civil war, though I guess one could construct an argument that the South's secession meant that it had become a separate nation. Of course, the North did not recognise the South's right to secede.

But the initial discussion was about the first industrialised war in history, not the first time that 'modern industrialised countries went to war with one another.'

This discussion could also focus on the precise meaning of a term like 'industrialised.'

There is evidence that there were industrial complexes in China built adjacent to coal mines, producing steel at least as early as the Song dynasty. (See John M. Hobson's, The Eastern Origin of Western Civilisation, Ch 3 and Ch 9,)

He also pffers a list of some remarkable weapons developed in Chinese history, which include Flame Throwers (circa 900 CE) Fire arrows (949) CE. Bombs, grenades and rockets (by 1231). Land and sea mines (by 1231) rocket launchers that could launch 329 rockets at a time. And Korea used a armored boat in a war with Japan in the 16th century.

My point is simple. what is progress? And what does industrialisation really mean? In this context, we are discussing an incremental change in the way things are done or made, and from that perspective, the ACW was a turning point as the historians cited in a previous post argued. Of course your welcome to hold a contrary viewpoint.

19

The Worst Year to be Alive? Answer: Most likely to be 536 CE

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i was a witness, since the early 1950's, to the relentless claims of the wt society (then synonymous with jws) that this was the worst of times to be alive.

if i had been more questioning and less accepting, i would never have become a shill for these apologists pf the murderous yhwh and his accomplice jesus,.

so how interesting to see today an opinion in science journal that:- .

fulltimestudent

Thank you Bill for correcting my misunderstanding re the use of machine guns in the American Civil War. However, it still seems (to me) that the ACW was the event that started the world on a faster path of weapon development.

I appreciate your arguments and viewpoint, but still feel inclined to view the ACW as the commencement of industrialised warfare. It could be said, that the fact that American industry was (generally) located in the north was the deciding factor in that war. The south could hardly appreciate what that meant, as they attempted to fight with 18th C tactics and weapons, Of course, whatever view we take of the ACW, considerable progress is seen by WW1, and even more in the 100 odd years since then, until now the nation with the most destructive power in history is the USA.

What do you think of the viewpoint expressed on this "History' site ?: https://www.history.com/topics/american-civil-war/civil-war-technology

Some historians refer to the ACW as the first 'modern' war. A page owned by the Virginia Museum of History and Culture makes the points:

The First Modern War?

)
How Technology Shaped the Civil War,
Secession not only spurred rapid improvements in warships and weapons, but also led to advances in communications and medicine
-----------------------------------------------

14

"The sun will be darkened, & the moon will not give its light." How do events like this affect superstitious humans?

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

the gospel of matthew's homily on the signs connected with the imagined return of christ, features an element of the sign that seems to really scare superstitious people.. matthew 24:29 reads: "immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;".

in the nineteenth century such an even occurred twice in the 19th century and apparently became part of charlie russell's conviction that the end of the world was nigh, charlie, of course, was a 'man of faith' accepting the bible as true and not willing to search for alternative explanation for such events.

if charlie r. had been the sort of person that continually asks why, his life and ours may have taken a different course.. i cannot quote where in his mass of writings he cites those 19th c events (its a long time since i've bothered to be interested in his writings), but mention them he did, and saw these events as proof of the imminent return of jesus christ.. so let's look at these two 19th c.natural occurrences, and compare them to another occurrence some 1400 years ago.. the 19th c events occurred in 1814-16 and again circa, 1883. the reason for the sun and moon being darkened was volcanic activity, easy for us to appreciate, but more difficult for religiously superstitious people.. the wikipedia encyclopedia notes the 1814-16 event: quote.

fulltimestudent

The Gospel of Matthew's homily on the signs connected with the imagined return of christ, features an element of the sign that seems to really scare superstitious people.

Matthew 24:29 reads: "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light;"

In the nineteenth century such an even occurred twice in the 19th century and apparently became part of Charlie Russell's conviction that the end of the world was nigh, Charlie, of course, was a 'man of faith' accepting the bible as true and not willing to search for alternative explanation for such events. If Charlie R. had been the sort of person that continually asks why, his life and ours may have taken a different course.

I cannot quote where in his mass of writings he cites those 19th C events (its a long time since I've bothered to be interested in his writings), but mention them he did, and saw these events as proof of the imminent return of jesus christ.

So let's look at these two 19th C.natural occurrences, and compare them to another occurrence some 1400 years ago.

The 19th C events occurred in 1814-16 and again circa, 1883. The reason for the sun and moon being darkened was volcanic activity, easy for us to appreciate, but more difficult for religiously superstitious people.

The Wikipedia encyclopedia notes the 1814-16 event: Quote."The year 1816 is known as the Year Without a Summer (also the Poverty Year and Eighteen Hundred and Froze To Death)[1] because of severe climate abnormalities that caused average global temperatures to decrease by 0.4–0.7 °C (0.7–1.3 °F).[2] This resulted in major food shortages across the Northern Hemisphere.[3]

Evidence suggests that the anomaly was predominantly a volcanic winter event caused by the massive 1815 eruption of Mount Tambora in the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia) . This eruption was the largest eruption in at least 1,300 years (after the extreme weather events of 535–536), and perhaps exacerbated by the 1814 eruption of Mayon in the Philippines." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer )

Charlie was, of course, not an eye-witness to that event, but was alive for the second, 1883 event: An eye-witness account describes the after affects - "The air grew steadily darker and darker, and at 10:30 a.m. we were in total darkness, just the same as on a very dark night. The wind was from the west-ward, and began to increase till it reached the force of a hurricane.

So we let down both anchors and kept the screw turning slowly at half speed in order to ride over the terribly high seas which kept suddenly striking us presumably in consequence of a "sea quake," and made us dread being buried under them. Awnings and curtains from forward right up the main-mast, three boat covers, and the uppermost awning of the quarter deck were blown away in a moment. Some objects on desk which had been lashed got loose and were carried overboard; the upper deck hatchways and those on the main deck were closed tightly, and the passengers for the most part were sent below.
Heavy storms.
The lightning struck the mainmast conductor six or seven times, but no damage. The rain of pumice-stones changed to a violent mud rain, and this mud rain was so heavy that in the space of ten minutes the mud lay half a foot deep. Kept steaming with the head of the ship as far as possible seawards for half an hour when the sea began to abate, and at noon the wind dropped away entirely. Then we stopped the engine. The darkness however remained as before, as did also the mud rain." (from VanSANDICK)

(http://historyofgeology.fieldofscience.com/2010/08/august-27-1883-krakatoa-day-world.html )

19

The Worst Year to be Alive? Answer: Most likely to be 536 CE

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i was a witness, since the early 1950's, to the relentless claims of the wt society (then synonymous with jws) that this was the worst of times to be alive.

if i had been more questioning and less accepting, i would never have become a shill for these apologists pf the murderous yhwh and his accomplice jesus,.

so how interesting to see today an opinion in science journal that:- .

fulltimestudent

Quote: "That allowed them to get away with making a big issue of 1914. Persons who had just lived through the first industrialised war in history,"

Yes, the 1914-1918 war was 'industrialised.' But, I think that an examination of the American civil war, and some of the 19th century European wars (before the Great War) will show that these wars can also be considered 'industrialised.' Perhaps the use of flying machines and tanks in the 1914-1918 could be considered as marking WW1* as a more 'industrialised.' war..

The deadly affect of machine guns may be first seen in the American Civil War, and were certainly used by the British Army in the 1904 invasion of China's Tibet, when a nervous CO ordered their use against Tibetan irregulars who had just surrendered. Slaying some 300 Tibetans. (The Tibetan irregulars did not have state issued guns, but brought with them yheir personally owned guns, most of which were little better than flintlocks, and that was why they would not surrender their guns.)

* If you do some searching you could find a number of historians who see WW1, not as a genuine first world war, but as the last of the purely European struggles for World supremacy. Other areas of the world that were affected by WWI were affected because of the European notion of colonisation, And, in some ways WW2 was also a continuation of those 19th C European struggles for world domination. The determination of Hitler's Germany to 'win' was certainly based on the harsh treatment of Germany in the Versailles Peace Treaty.

What made WW2 a truly world war, was Japan*, and from that viewpoint, WW2 can be seen as starting in July 1937, with Japan's invasion of a still disorganised China. Japan went on to steam-roller the European Military in S.E. Asia. A victory that should not have shocked the European military establishment, because the newly industrialised Japan had defeated Russia in the 1904 war, not just on land, but also at sea, the Japanese Navy sinking two Russian fleets. That should have been a warning to the West, that a re-organised Asia would have to be treated with caution and respect.

----------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Any time an uber-Dub says something like "this is the worst time in all of human history"... ...counter with: "So you'd rather live in the Old West? The Middle Ages? The Roman Empire?"
Quite right! Daily problems fade into insignificance when we are faced with life or death medical issues. So many diseases, once incurable, can now be fixed through advances in medical science.

8

Charlie Russell, A Zionist Hero

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i was rather surprised today as i explored some archaeological news for my macquarie asian history fb page, to be suddenly confronted with this heading in the israeli haaretz media site.. before herzl, there was pastor russell: a neglected chapter of zionism.

years before theodor herzl proposed creating a jewish state, charles taze russell was traveling the world holding jewish mass meetings, beginning in 1879, at which he urged jews to find a national home in eretz israel.

... and this quote from charlie's zion's watchtower (p. 329, 1892: .

fulltimestudent

I was rather surprised today as I explored some archaeological news for my Macquarie Asian History FB page, to be suddenly confronted with this heading in the Israeli Haaretz media site.

Before Herzl, There Was Pastor Russell: A Neglected Chapter of Zionism

Years before Theodor Herzl proposed creating a Jewish state, Charles Taze Russell was traveling the world holding Jewish Mass Meetings, beginning in 1879, at which he urged Jews to find a national home in Eretz Israel

... and this quote from Charlie's Zion's Watchtower (p. 329, 1892:

"There are now in the world more than ten million Jews, about three-quarters of whom are in Russia, Poland, the Balkan States, and Turkey. If the movement toward Palestine should get the impulse that the Hirsch committee is able to give it, an imaginative person can conceive of the country's doubling or trebling its Jewish population before the close of our century"

And to find the article adopting Charlie as an early and enthusiastic proponent for a Jewish state.

You may be able read the article at:

https://www.haaretz.com/jewish/.premium.MAGAZINE-before-herzl-there-was-pastor-russell-a-neglected-chapter-of-zionism-1.6409303?v=871F47BC8E181BF48C973D505C18DAC3

(There's no paywall, but Haaretz wants you email before letting you read the full story.)

I knew that Charlie had a greater leaning toward Zionism than the WTS in my time. but to see this fulsome praise was surprising.

fulltimestudent

Posts by fulltimestudent