My Gay XJW Friend's Decision Concerning His Relationship With His Partner

by fulltimestudent 10 Replies latest jw friends

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  fulltimestudent

  I've often spoken of my XJW friend and his younger Chinese partner. My friend was kicked out of YHWH's "clean" organisation when he was around 60.

  Before he became a witness at around age 17-18, he did appreciate that he was attracted to other guys. And, he did force himself (after becoming a JW) to only think of girls. He claims he did nothing wrong sexually for decades and genuinely believed that YHWH or jesus had "fixed" him up, The quite suddenly his feeling's of attraction to males returned, he gave into temptation (from a JW perspective) and was subsequently expelled from the jws.

  After feeling suicidal he met a young Asian guy one day who had the knack of making him feel better about himself. They entered into a relationship at a time when my friend was a youngish 60 and his new partner was a mature 28.They have had about 30 years together and have helped each other to prosper through those years. Now my friend is in his early 80s and his partner is close to 60. Both have been wondering how the younger partner will spend his last years after my friend dies.

  Recently, the younger partner has met another Chinese guy in his early 40s and they have become close friends. Now, so far that friendship does not seem to have become sexual. But the YP's (younger partner) new friend has been going through a rather nasty divorce, and while there is no sign that he has ever been attracted to other males, he does seem to be very close to the YP, who admits to being strongly attracted to his new friend

  So, my XJW friend and his partner have been having discussions about what comes next and how to handle the situation. My XJW friend is being realistic about the situation. He realises the age gap means that his YP may face years of loneliness when he dies. And has come to the decision to assist his YP to develop the friendship with his new friend and not to oppose it.

  He feels that if he truly loves his partner, he must think of his YPs future after his own death

  But, the real crunch came when the YP suggested that if his friendship with his NF (new friend) becomes sexual and a full relationship, then the three of the them could live together.

  However, my friend feels that while he can encourage his YP's new friendship and sees the logic of his YP's suggestion, he just cannot face seeing them sleep together night after night, and would prefer to reject that offer. When we discussed the situation he thinks he would move to Cambodia where another friend of his is now living.

  So, on one hand he can have security and be well-looked after in his last years, albeit without a sleeping partner, OTOH, (in my opinion) he can move to Cambodia and face an uncertain future should he become frail or have failing intellectual powers, There are apparently good medical facilities in Phnom Penh, but who would/could take on the responsibilities of looking after him?

  I'm not sure if his decision is either realistic or practical (regarding his own future). Its a complicated situation and its been hard to explain.
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  steve2

  It's complicated and head-ache inducing. I have heard of this sort of 'three-some' scenario when an older man marries a much younger woman. There have even been plays and films written about it. Watch Entertaining Mr Sloane (by playwright Joe Orton) and be astonished at the giddy strength of unseemly sexual attraction within such arrangements.
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  Nathan Natas

  Do you think it might be possible that they could become trinitarians?

  There is no gay law against that, is there?
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  caves

  I agree steve2, Headache inducing. This is a nightmare scenario. IMO. Who would want that. Exjw doesn't even chime in here. This is a complicated (self inflicted) situation. The younger guy seems to have no dignity. The older guy must have low self worth. The only place I can even remotely stretch my imagination that this is even exjw related at all is the older guys thinking of trying to find his younger partner a person so he wont be alone when he dies. Like some sort of martyr for cult BS. I digress, to messy.

  @fulltimestudent-Now, so far that friendship does not seem to have become sexual. But the YP's (younger partner) new friend has been going through a rather nasty divorce, and while there is no sign that he has ever been attracted to other males, he does seem to be very close to the YP, who admits to being strongly attracted to his new friend

  Could the red flags be any bigger? Seriously. This is a set up for one hell of a mind screw.

  I hypothetically bitch slap them all.
• 

  Diogenesister

  Caves my sweet darling I endevour to say, i may be wrong, you are young and ideslistic. But probably right.

  My husbands mother married a man 25 years younger, after my husbands father died at 50 of a nasty cancer.

  Mother-in-law and partner Brian were very happy for 30 years but towards the end as mum reached her 70s and 80s she couldnt shake the guilt that her younger man had never been sble to have his own family.(she had 6 kids and had enough!when they met she was 45). Also naturally her sexuality wained and she worried about his future loneliness. Had he sacrificed his life for her? She too considered encouraging him to find a younger woman.

  But.....tragically her younger partner Brian died of cancer at 52, a few years ago. She went through hell watching her strapping 6ft 4 blond, rugby playing surfer succumb to the disease. She has since buried 2 of her kids( my husband brother and sister, the last 2 dsys ago). Shes approaching 90 in a couple years.

  I suppose what i am saying is you never know whats around the corner. Live for what you have today!! Worrying will get you nowhere. I think your friend should folliw his heart but also go to couples councilling. However imho, although i fully understand, your friends partner has tsken the good times, is it fair to desert his loyal lover in his time of need??
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  fulltimestudent

  Interesting reactions!!

  Steve 2 mentioned threesomes. My friend's case is not a threesome. He and his partner's experience is more like a trial and error experiment in an orderly succession for the younger partner, in finding a new partner before the demise of his previous partner.

  If he waited, until my friend died, he may have missed his chance for a new life partner who really attracted him.

  But since Steve2 mentions threesomes, let's look at a bible example, according to Leviticus 20:14 "And if a man takes a wife and her mother, it is wickedness,"

  So maybe that was a problem among the proto-Israelites.
  

  And, since YHWH blessed Abraham and his multiple wives,I guess we can construct an argument that YHWH blesses men who want multiple partners.

  And many followed Abraham's example,. for instance:

  Jacob’s sex life is more bizarre still. He purchased his first wife Leah from her father, then married her sister Rachel. Rachel’s servant girl Bilhah soon joined them “as a wife” for at least two children [Genesis 30:3-4]. Then Leah’s servant girl Zilpah made it a happy fivesome [Genesis 30:9-11]. Just imagine the happiness of Jacob with 4 women in his bed at once, (Not sure how they all participated at the same time - but the bible does not forbid anal sex with women.

  and more XXXsomes followed:

  These lucky guys were not alone. Lamech took two wives. Esau had three. Gideon had many wives. King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines. ( Can you imagine that these women waiting for Solomon to pick them for a night of fun, did not have lesbian sex with each other?). Rehoboam took 18 wives, and 60 concubines. Abijah had 14 wives. Caleb had children with at least two partners. David had eight wives, an unknown number of concubines and a relationship with Jonathan (Jonathon was better than women, so David declared. What do you think he meant by that?).

  There are others we know of and many we don’t.

  Then jesus comes along an spoils the party, forbidding divorce and remarriage and alsoPaul saying elders should be husbands of one wife (could ordinary members of the christian congregation have a 3some?), although it is suggested by some scholars that bible writers wewre influenced by the self-declared Roman god, Augustus, who before jesus got going, made a law forbidding divorce and remarriage,

  All that, of course, raises the question of whether humans are really monogamous?

  Finally today, I'm curious. caves sees red flags flicking up, but what aspect of this discussion are the red flags flagging? He does not make clear what he fears.
  
  
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  caves

  @ fulltime-Ok, Well if we are going to throw in things under the Mosaic Law (old testament) then the whole thing is rather moot.

  Having lots of wifes, equals and solidifies power. I think that is what that was mostly about. Not threesomes. No doubt they took place. As far as where Jacob put his dindong, with several women at once Im sure the last place he'd be looking was at their butt holes. (did I just type that, I cant breath)lol

  Also about Jonathan, Who knows, maybe having so many wifes he needed , errr, something else to pass the time,love, lust? I cant possibly see how that fits into the OP. Unless the exdub older guy still needs some sort of permission or validation. Still quite a stretch.

  Are humans really monogamous?- Depends on the human. And In this case, perhaps the circumstance.There there are many animal species that mate for life. Many that don't. I imagine the same with humans. Those are convos that two people need to talk about in regards their own relationship and how it applies to them.

  @Dio-Caves my sweet darling I endevour to say, i may be wrong, you are young and ideslistic.

  You might be right. Me young and Idealistic? What a compliment.

  I guess I wish the older guy could just settle into the reality of his mortality with his partner 100% by his side and not dismissing his own need for love and human contact without pain of seeing his partner ready to be with another. If that makes me idealistic i'll take it. Although life may prove me wrong and change my perspective (and yes, sigh...I do see the perspective).

  @ fulltime-I see a couple of red flags. One is the other guy going through a nasty divorce all while not even knowing if he's into the other guy or not. That is dangerous, and stress inducing to an already emotionally charged situation.
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  Jayk

  I just found out a young witness in his mid 20s probably killed himself a year or so ago for being gay. I didnt know him but people in my family did.
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  steve2

  I just found out a young witness in his mid 20s probably killed himself a year or so ago for being gay.

  Sad. If your desires and inclinations are condemned by the important people in your life and you still feel the need to be part of a loving relationship (but cannot), then the alternative for unknown numbers is suicide. It is not unique to JWs either. Fundamentalists of all shades face this situation.
  
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  Pete Zahut

  
  

  
  

  fulltimestudent "They entered into a relationship at a time when my friend was a youngish 60 and his new partner was a mature 28.They have had about 30 years together and have helped each other to prosper through those years. Now my friend is in his early 80s and his partner is close to 60."

  Wouldn't your friend be 90 by now? Anyway, I'm curious how you came to know so much about this situation and are they asking you for your advice in terms of what they should do? Since it was mentioned, is it significant to the story that the two younger men are Chinese?
  

  Either way, there are certain situations in life such as May/December marriages/partnerships that are rife with these kinds of problems and that's why they often are heavily advised against. Often the issues that inevitably arise in these relationships and in life in general, don't have a good solution or any solution at all. The only thing one can do is forget finding the perfect answer and choose a way to go that seems to be the least problematic and just muddle through the best one can.