Myriads and Myriads of Angels ... What Do They Do?

by RubaDub in

i never understood this in my entire life in the borg.. who knows how many angels there are, millions, billions?.

an angel protected rahab when the walls of jericho fell.

then one angel killed 24,000 one night.. yet there seems to be this paranoia in the borg like the bunker video and the field video where jw's are under attack and apparently alone or at least it appears alone.. can't a few angels be put on overtime and protect the brothers from the potential "authorities" that wish to harm or eliminate them?.

fulltimestudent

(smle) - we shouldn't ask silly questions that embarrass christians (of any brand).

6

The Murderous Rule of the Hasmonean King (and High Priest) Alexander Jannaeus

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

alexander janneaus ruled (and also served as high priest) in jerusalem between 103 and 76 bce.

the books of maccabees provide information for the start of this historical period, brought to an end by herod the great now archaeological evidence has emerged in jerusalem of his murderous reign.

this times of israel article diuscusses the evidence and how the story was put together.

fulltimestudent

Alexander Janneaus ruled (and also served as High Priest) in Jerusalem between 103 and 76 BCE. The books of Maccabees provide information for the start of this historical period, brought to an end by Herod the Great Now archaeological evidence has emerged in Jerusalem of his murderous reign

This Times of Israel article diuscusses the evidence and how the story was put together. We could ask the question, If YHWH was real, why did he allow these atrocities?

Find the story at this link: https://www.timesofisrael.com/mass-burial-site-uncovered-in-jerusalem-evidence-of-holy-kings-bloody-reign/

242

Do You Think President Trump Will Be Impeached?

by minimus in

jw
friends

whether you like him or not.... it doesn’t matter.

do you think he will be impeached?

?.

fulltimestudent

The UK Spectator magazine is a conservative (right wing) news magazine that seems to nearly always support the UK Conservative party/government.

So I was surprised to see them publishing this story by a BBC reporter:

Trumpworld is spinning out of control

The fate of Donald Trump’s presidency now hangs on what Michael Cohen will say

But if there was no highly organised conspiracy, that does leave open the possibility of collusion. When the Russians offered help, the Trump campaign seemed only too eager to accept. Does that mean President Trump knew of Russian hacking and other illegal acts before they took place? Lanny Davies, Cohen’s lawyer, hints that it does mean exactly that. The President may have known ‘ahead of time’ what the Russians were doing. The fate of the Trump presidency now hangs on what Michael Cohen will say.

We live in interesting times, don't we? Trump sloganised that he would make American Great again. Perhaps he will further diminish the American Empire.

Link: https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/08/trumpworld-is-spinning-out-of-control/?utm_source=Adestra&utm_medium=email&utm_content=250818_Weekly_Highlights_34_NONSUBS&utm_campaign=Weekly_Highlights

34

1980s Brochure/magazine on demon possession?

by caves in

does anyone else remember a brochure/ magazine from the early 80s with stories of demon possessed individuals and spiritism ?

i dont think i saw it around very long.

it had a story about some lady having her head snapped around by a demon.

fulltimestudent

I'm smiling as I type ... I recall this part of my JW experience with inner laughter. Here are a few of my favourite memories.

1. A brother with severe cognitive disabilities describing to a number of others at the KH, how Satan had pushed him down some steps to stop him from going witinessing.

2. A circuit overseers (also cognitively challenged) wife telling a group of enthralled sisters, how she had helped a sister in another congregation. This woman apparently had all sorts of spiritual difficulties and the 'clever' CO's wife found the problem, a rosary under her bed, allegedly placed there by the woman's mother ( a hostile Catholic).

3. A wife having emotional problems throwing am expensive silver and jade ring into a river (likely inspired by the jesus and the pigs story) and claiming she immediately felt better.

4. An otherwise pragmatic and ikeable CO, claiming that in th home of a family studying but not progressing ( a prime target for the demons, right???) he could feel a demonic presence.

What's your favourite (laughable) demon story?

5

2000+ y.o.Hellenistic Style Gold Earring Discovered in Jerusalem.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

in find of ancient gold earring, echoes of greek rule over jerusalem .

jerusalem (reuters) - a gold earring believed to date back more than 2000 years has been unearthed near the site of the ancient jewish temples in jerusalem, in what israeli archaeologists called rare evidence of hellenistic influence.. see the reuters report: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-archaeology/in-find-of-ancient-gold-earring-echoes-of-greek-rule-over-jerusalem-iduskbn1kt18g.

such material trinkets may be rare, but there is a lot of scholarly discussion as to the depth of greek influence in the minds and hearts of the jewish population of that time..

fulltimestudent

haha! its taught me a great deal about your thought processes.

5

2000+ y.o.Hellenistic Style Gold Earring Discovered in Jerusalem.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

in find of ancient gold earring, echoes of greek rule over jerusalem .

jerusalem (reuters) - a gold earring believed to date back more than 2000 years has been unearthed near the site of the ancient jewish temples in jerusalem, in what israeli archaeologists called rare evidence of hellenistic influence.. see the reuters report: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-archaeology/in-find-of-ancient-gold-earring-echoes-of-greek-rule-over-jerusalem-iduskbn1kt18g.

such material trinkets may be rare, but there is a lot of scholarly discussion as to the depth of greek influence in the minds and hearts of the jewish population of that time..

fulltimestudent

And, if a desire for further deep thoughts on the Reincarnation versus Resurrection debate, trouble your mind you may like to read this paper that was given at he Asian Conference on Ethics, Religion & Philosophy, 30 March - 2 April, Osaka, Japan, 2012.

Abstract

papers.cfm?abstract_id=2069596
I sure hope that I've confused no-one.

5

2000+ y.o.Hellenistic Style Gold Earring Discovered in Jerusalem.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

in find of ancient gold earring, echoes of greek rule over jerusalem .

jerusalem (reuters) - a gold earring believed to date back more than 2000 years has been unearthed near the site of the ancient jewish temples in jerusalem, in what israeli archaeologists called rare evidence of hellenistic influence.. see the reuters report: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-archaeology/in-find-of-ancient-gold-earring-echoes-of-greek-rule-over-jerusalem-iduskbn1kt18g.

such material trinkets may be rare, but there is a lot of scholarly discussion as to the depth of greek influence in the minds and hearts of the jewish population of that time..

fulltimestudent

Smile! Glad you found it at last, brother Perry.

May I say, your pik shows that in your excellent conidition for a 2100 years old guy. So good in fact, that I cant believe that you have existed all these years. Therefore I'm looking at the alternative - that actually you are either a re-incarnated human or that you are an early ressurectee of the 'princes of old' that Joe R believed would soon be hitting the sunny uplands of California.

There is, of course, a technical difference between resurrection and reincarnation. I will attempt to explain that technical difference.

Resurrection is a person coming back to life. For example, in the bible, Jesus died and he rose again. ... Every Christian believes he will be resurrected just like Jesus one day.

This definition is dependent on the dictionary definition: "the act of bringing something that had disappeared or ended back into use or existence"

Reincarnation, on the other hand is a soul (or something) beginning a new life in a new body on earth, not necessarily in the body of a human.

Again dependent on a dictionary definition: "the rebirth of a soul in another body."

So I'm not sure what process you have endured brother Perry. In fact, when you start a discussion with someone on this topic, its damned hard not to get confused as most religious people start to get a bit muddled.

To illustrate: As JWs we imagined that when we died, we disappeared from existence and could only be brought back by the fact that YHWH (or Maybe JESUS) in their ever expanding giant harddisc like mind, would find a little space to remember every detail of our previous existence, so that when he graciously favoured us with remembrance and re-made a similar body to our pre-death body, our first thought would quite possibly immediately connect to our last pre-death thought(s).

I've heard Jws go to enormous lengths to deny that that would be a 'reincarnation.' But compare it to what many Buddhists seem to believe, which is: All living things undergo a continues process of life, death and reincarnation. How does that happen? Well, they imagine that when we die, a "trace" of us continues and becomes implanted in some near-to-being-born lifeform. If you want to ask a Buddhist what that 'trace' is, I can only wish you good luck. But they are insistent, somehow that that 'trace' not only exists but is preserved until implanted in it's next 'host.' And, Hey! Presto, its the new you!!!!

Is that so very different from the JW concept? YHWH preserves a 'trace' of us, that enables him to implant that trace/memory of you into the new body/host and HEY! Presto!n its the new /old us.

So what do you reckon brother Perry, which way did you experience this blessing?

5

2000+ y.o.Hellenistic Style Gold Earring Discovered in Jerusalem.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

in find of ancient gold earring, echoes of greek rule over jerusalem .

jerusalem (reuters) - a gold earring believed to date back more than 2000 years has been unearthed near the site of the ancient jewish temples in jerusalem, in what israeli archaeologists called rare evidence of hellenistic influence.. see the reuters report: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-archaeology/in-find-of-ancient-gold-earring-echoes-of-greek-rule-over-jerusalem-iduskbn1kt18g.

such material trinkets may be rare, but there is a lot of scholarly discussion as to the depth of greek influence in the minds and hearts of the jewish population of that time..

fulltimestudent

In find of ancient gold earring, echoes of Greek rule over Jerusalem

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - A gold earring believed to date back more than 2000 years has been unearthed near the site of the ancient Jewish temples in Jerusalem, in what Israeli archaeologists called rare evidence of Hellenistic influence.

See the Reuters report: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-archaeology/in-find-of-ancient-gold-earring-echoes-of-greek-rule-over-jerusalem-idUSKBN1KT18G

Such material trinkets may be rare, but there is a lot of scholarly discussion as to the depth of Greek influence in the minds and hearts of the Jewish population of that time.

51

Why go back to the Old Testament?

by Lost in the fog in

why do jws insist on still quoting from the old testament to back up some of their wacky ideas?

such as on blood, beards, abortion, tattoos, etc.

surely if the mosaic law code was nailed to the torture stake all of its parts were cancelled.

fulltimestudent

Drearyweather: What are your views on this? Do you feel that Islamic knowledge can be called as the assimilation of previously known knowledge? Was Medieval Islam a concoction of conquered civilisations?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The last sentence of my last post, notes:

Quote: "One lesson to take away from this discussion is that all the evidence in antiquity points to a sharing of information from different sources and traditions. There is no 'long line of a true religion' in history."

That's my conclusion after 10 metaphorical years criss-crossing Asia as the well-spring of history,

The Arab thinkers were happy to research the conclusions of Hellenistic thinkers. And European thinkers (later) were happy to learn form the Arab preservers of Hellenistic/Roman understanding of the world.

Human knowledge is a gradual development built on observation and the testing (as far as possible) of a theory. And, as thinkers discussed their ideas, there has been a general sharing of knowledge that continues to this time period.

We know now that Egyptian knowledge was admired by the Greeks (and the Israelites also, recall Acts 7:22 - "Moses was educated in all the wisdom of the Egyptians " Later, Greek (Hellenistic) thinking was assiimilated by Jewish people.)

51

Why go back to the Old Testament?

by Lost in the fog in

why do jws insist on still quoting from the old testament to back up some of their wacky ideas?

such as on blood, beards, abortion, tattoos, etc.

surely if the mosaic law code was nailed to the torture stake all of its parts were cancelled.

fulltimestudent

TTWSYF: Fulltime student-This is the first paragraph from your link from above. This first paragraph indicates that Christian monasteries were first, doesn't it? Funny, you left that out.

Yes! I deliberately did not quote the first paragraph. But. it was not funny at all, TTWSYF! Do christians like you, ever stop to think about why things are written the way they are?

Let's take a closer look at that first paragraph.

Quote: "The hospital was one of the great achievements of medieval Islamic society. The relation of the design and development of Islamic hospitals to the earlier and contemporaneous poor and sick relief facilities offered by some Christian monasteries has not been fully delineated. Clearly, however, the medieval Islamic hospital was a more elaborate institution with a wider range of functions."

The above author was acknowledging that little is known about the (quote) "poor and sick relief facilities offered by some Christian monasteries." And, I did not want to further complicate a difficult research area by discussing the development of Christian monasteries. So let's do that now!

Strange christian believers were soon evident in early christianity, apparently trying to emulate the 40 days Jesus spent in the wilderness. They began to live in caves, in trees, on top of poles, etc. Later some started to live these sort of lives in small groups (maybe demonstrating that insanity can be infectious - smile).

St. Pachomius is usually credited with the establisment of the first cenoitic (community-based) christian monastery in 346 CE at (possibly) Tabenna in Egypt. His intention apparently was to allow individiuals who lacked the skills to survive alone in the desert, to live in an organised community.

You can easily imagine, that in time, some of these monks would need nursing, either because of advanced age or sustaining an injury. So now think of JW bethel homes, some, at least, by all accounts, had 'sick bays.' Can these be called hospitals? Could the similar sick bays, in those first monasteries be called "hospitals?" Maybe now you may understand where the author of the cited text was going when he wrote that sentence. And, why I chose not to discuss that connection. For your punishment for your lack of critical thinking, you can read this explanation now!!!!

If you want to class a 'sick bay' in a monastery as the equivalent of a modern hospital, go ahead, but I suggest that there is a world of difference between a monastic sick bay and the described Islamic hospital of that article.

However, even if you accept that monastic sick bay as a hospital, it still does not mean that christians developed the first hospitals, as the subsequent quotations I offered make clear, the pagan Greeks and Romans had developed an equivalent to the modern hospital in the temples associated with Asclepius and known as asclepieions, well before Jesus was a twinkle in YHWH's eye.

And.by the way, Asclepius's symbol (the rod of Asclepius, a rod with a serpent entwined) is still used as a synbal of medicine, to this day. And the names of his daughters are still associated with aspects of medicine. His daughters were:

1. Hygieia ("Hygiene", the goddess/personification of health, cleanliness, and sanitation).

2. Iaso (the goddess of recuperation from illness).

3. .Aceso (the goddess of the healing process).

4. Aglæa/Ægle (the goddess of the glow of good health),

5, Panacea (the goddess of universal remedy).

But let's back track now and ask the question, from where could these early Christians have gotten the idea of a monastic community?

St. Pachomius, lived in Egypt, and the Red sea Egyptian coast had strong trade links to India. India was where Buddhism developed, and Buddhists are known to have established monasteries, (as well as a missionary network) from as early as the 4th century BCE. We know that Buddhists were preaching in Egypt in Roman times, and its' easy to imagine that people knew of the concept of monastic communities from their knowledge of Buddhists.

So it is interesting to read the Wikipedia (for convenience) entry on "History of Hospitals."

Quote: "Institutions created specifically to care for the ill also appeared early in India. Fa Xian, a Chinese Buddhist monk who travelled across India ca. 400 AD, recorded in his travelogue [5] that

The heads of the Vaishya [merchant] families in them [all the kingdoms of north India] establish in the cities houses for dispensing charity and medicine. All the poor and destitute in the country, orphans, widowers, and childless men, maimed people and cripples, and all who are diseased, go to those houses, and are provided with every kind of help, and doctors examine their diseases. They get the food and medicines which their cases require, and are made to feel at ease; and when they are better, they go away of themselves.

The earliest surviving encyclopaedia of medicine in Sanskrit is the Carakasamhita (Compendium of Caraka). This text, which describes the building of a hospital is dated by the medical historian Dominik Wujastyk to the period between 100 BCE and 150 CE.[6] The description by Fa Xian is one of the earliest accounts of a civic hospital system anywhere in the world and this evidence, coupled with Caraka’s description of how a clinic should be built and equipped, suggests that India may have been the first part of the world to have evolved an organized cosmopolitan system of institutionally-based medical provision.[7]

King Ashoka is wrongly said by many secondary sources to have founded at hospitals in ca. 230 BCE[8]

According to the Mahavamsa, the ancient chronicle of Sinhalese royalty, written in the sixth century CE, King Pandukabhaya of Sri Lanka (reigned 437 BCE to 367 BCE) had lying-in-homes and hospitals (Sivikasotthi-Sala) built in various parts of the country. This is the earliest documentary evidence we have of institutions specifically dedicated to the care of the sick anywhere in the world.[9][10] Mihintale Hospital is the oldest in the world.[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_hospitals

One lesson to take away from this discussion is that all the evidence in antiquity points to a sharing of information from differernt sources and traditions. There is no 'long line of a true religion' in hiustory.

fulltimestudent

Posts by fulltimestudent

Abstract

In find of ancient gold earring, echoes of Greek rule over Jerusalem