Posts by MeanMrMustard

51

BREAKING NEWS ! Finland attacks judicial committees

by raymond frantz in

the finish minister of justice has publicly attacked the practice of judicial committees in her country which are in violation with the basic rights and freedoms enjoyed from citizens in her country .read the full article here :.

finland attacks judicial committees.

please like and share article so more get to see it!.

MeanMrMustard

I don't think society in general has figured out where to draw the line for freedom of religion

IMHO its a form of child abuse to raise kids in high control groups like JW's etc - but what can be done without impinging on the more benign religions?

But let’s say you could do something without hurting the more benign religions. Are you saying that JWs shouldn’t be allowed to have children? Or perhaps if a JW family were to have a child, it should be taken?

Step 1 is the stringent application of a strong public benefit test with charitable status set with a higher barrier

As I stated before, I don’t think the WT would pay this. The members would pay. The end result would be the shunning would continue, and the members would be poorer.

Government moves slowly but surely - 30 years ago JW kids in the UK were dieing over the blood issue - that simply doesnt happen anymore - so i figure maybe we are due for another step change - perhaps in how society perceives religious shunning

I am shunned because I am black gay ex-JW - its not OK, but thats where we are right now.

So are we saying that a JW, meeting an ex-JW on the street, has an obligation to converse of the former member would like to? I am not trying to be difficult. I really want to know where you are drawing the line in terms of a human "right" - to come up with a statement or two.

MMM

51

BREAKING NEWS ! Finland attacks judicial committees

by raymond frantz in

the finish minister of justice has publicly attacked the practice of judicial committees in her country which are in violation with the basic rights and freedoms enjoyed from citizens in her country .read the full article here :.

finland attacks judicial committees.

please like and share article so more get to see it!.

MeanMrMustard

what are the "human rights" that are violated if a group doesn't want you as a member anymore? - MMM

It's not about removal from membership, it's about using threats of sanctions to enforce damage on family relationships.

Ok, fine. The “sanctions” you refer to is the shunning. So what human right is violated by someone’s choice not to associate (shun)? The shunning comes from the members. The active members, that engage in the shunning, do so because they believe it is right - they believe the WT interpretation of the Bible in that regard.

There is a human right - an actual right - a “negative” right (or liberty) - of freedom of association. Are you saying that JWs should not be allowed to exercise that right?

MMM

51

BREAKING NEWS ! Finland attacks judicial committees

by raymond frantz in

the finish minister of justice has publicly attacked the practice of judicial committees in her country which are in violation with the basic rights and freedoms enjoyed from citizens in her country .read the full article here :.

finland attacks judicial committees.

please like and share article so more get to see it!.

MeanMrMustard

Groups have a lot of latitude in their behavior. However, once you enjoy the tax benefits of a non-profit organizations there needs to be established a value to the community. The antisocial behavior of jws is the opposite of what should be considered community benefit.

Is that written somewhere in the law (it could be in Finland, I don’t know) that if you accept tax exemptions, you automatically accept the government’s regulation over doctrines that it might find unacceptable?

If it were written that way, do you think the WTB&TS would go along with it? There are easy ways to make up the cost of taxes (see below).

So, they can do two things give up shunning and a few other antisocial behaviors (like letting their kids die) or give up their tax benefits.

Let’s say this were enacted. Are you thinking about the unintended consequences? That is, you hope that the WTB&TS would think about losing their tax exempt status, and then change their doctrine to conform. However, what is more likely happen is that they would accept the taxes, and pass them down to their members. This occurs with pretty much all tax hikes on corporations - the corporation doesn’t pay, people pay. Either the customers or, in the case, the members. New donation arrangements would be “suggested”, or certain updates to halls would be placed on hold and the local congregation would have to come up with the funds, or any number of things. In the end, you are placing the tax on the members, and it wouldn’t change the shunning.

MMM

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

MeanMrMustard

Once you guys are settled on the very nature of the supreme God himself (or themselves), which ever it comes out to be, perhaps you can concentrate on a question that really matters: festivus vs. christmas.

MMM

51

BREAKING NEWS ! Finland attacks judicial committees

by raymond frantz in

the finish minister of justice has publicly attacked the practice of judicial committees in her country which are in violation with the basic rights and freedoms enjoyed from citizens in her country .read the full article here :.

finland attacks judicial committees.

please like and share article so more get to see it!.

MeanMrMustard

The Universal Declaration of Human rights.. I see...This list, although containing some real rights, is peppered with entitlements, not rights.

Which "right" from above is violated by shunning?

Negative rights vs Positive rights. You have to be clear what a "right" is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXOEkj6Jz44

MMM

51

BREAKING NEWS ! Finland attacks judicial committees

by raymond frantz in

the finish minister of justice has publicly attacked the practice of judicial committees in her country which are in violation with the basic rights and freedoms enjoyed from citizens in her country .read the full article here :.

finland attacks judicial committees.

please like and share article so more get to see it!.

MeanMrMustard

I don't see this as a good thing at all. But this is Finland - I'm not sure what protections are awarded relgions. But even as an atheist, I worry about that precedent that it would set. And what are the "human rights" that are violated if a group doesn't want you as a member anymore?

MMM

199

Trinitarians! Who is Jesus Christ's father the Holy Spirit or the Father?

by booker-t in

this is one question that trinitarians try to avoid because they have created a very embarrassing problem.

the bible is very clear when the angel tells mary that holy spirit will overshadow her and she will become pregnant.

the angel does not say the father will overshadow her but the holy spirit will and if the holy spirit is a person that would make him the father of jesus.

MeanMrMustard

Although I am no longer a theist, I find that the Trinitarian concept of the Biblical God is closer to that of an Unitarian. The WT flurts with "the Word" in John 1:1 as being qualitatively God, and yet, back away from the implications of that (WT 11/15/75, Insight, Vol 2 p. 54). In the end, however, I think the correct viewpoint is that having the correct model of the nature of God is not important. I don't find Trintarians deserving of damnation (as JWs teach) any more than Unitarians are deserving of damnation (as some Trintarians teach). I think the Bible is unclear for a reason - it doesn't really matter as a Christian.

MMM

55

Don't miss the health care sign up deadline.

by FlyingHighNow in

jw
friends

sign up deadline is the 31st, in a couple of days.

if you have problems with the website and youve been there before, try cleaning out your cookies and cache, then restart your computer.

that worked for me.

MeanMrMustard

@GrreatTeacher: Now why would you say that?

112

Supreme Court ruling- refusing to photo gay wedding is discrimination

by SadElder in

according to bloomberg news:.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-04-07/wedding-photographer-rebuffed-by-top-court-on-same-sex-ceremony.

"the u.s. supreme court turned away an appeal from a new mexico wedding photographer found to have violated a state anti-discrimination law when she refused to take pictures of a commitment ceremony for a same-sex couple.. the photographer, elaine huguenin, argued unsuccessfully that she was being unconstitutionally forced to convey a message conflicting with her religious beliefs.

MeanMrMustard

So would you be OK with "Whites Only" shop signs, an if not what's the difference?

Personally, no. I think it is repulsive. And so does everyone else. They would go out of business. I don't like the government getting the camel's nose under the tent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FR3ChDXCv0I

112

Supreme Court ruling- refusing to photo gay wedding is discrimination

by SadElder in

according to bloomberg news:.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-04-07/wedding-photographer-rebuffed-by-top-court-on-same-sex-ceremony.

"the u.s. supreme court turned away an appeal from a new mexico wedding photographer found to have violated a state anti-discrimination law when she refused to take pictures of a commitment ceremony for a same-sex couple.. the photographer, elaine huguenin, argued unsuccessfully that she was being unconstitutionally forced to convey a message conflicting with her religious beliefs.

MeanMrMustard

Tell me the difference...

So you (a black man) have a publican refuse to take serve you a beer - so what? Why not go to another bar? Sheesh.

Are there laws preventing me from entering into the bar next door - which is glad to accept black men? In relation to the photographer, this does have religious freedom issues tied to it. But let's say it did not - that the photographer just hates gay people. In other words, she is just a bad person. What policy would be the best to maximize her punishment, while NOT punishing others? If the society does not accept that behavior, then the market will soon see that her business ends (or is badly hurt).

MMM