Posts by JT

26

GB dies???

by JT in

jw
friends

posted by ernest [ernest] on january 03, 2001 at 14:44:39 {l6c8f8mpkkj.cgracl3y0abnmpk0su}: .

dear friends, .

1/3/01 it was announced at morning worship today that brother karl klein, .

JT

So much for the "poor Bethel brothers" living on just a tiny allowance and giving all their time to the service of Jehovah.

I always suspected as much, but it's still a shock to hear my thoughts vindicated.
**************************************

I did know some bethelites who had to live off thier $90.00 amonth--
no family in the "Truth" and they got very little help from thier local hall due to having so many bethelites in thier hall

in fact they were the guys i used to see come down to the district conventions when i was growing up and they looked like Nerds with highwater pants and white socks and black shoes-

i never wanted to be like that or go to bethel- then i saw some Cool Bethelites come down when i was 17 yrs old and i wanted to be one of them- smile

but the Bethel Heavies do live well ---due to all those "Green Handshakes"

i used to work as the circuit acct oveseer and we had this bethel speaker come down for the weekend--- we had him on sat and he had a sunday talk as well for the Speical one day

i sat in the office and saw 9 elders put together $500 out of pocket to give him as a gift-keep in mind all his expenses are paid for anyway

i have no idea how much he got from the friends after he finished his last talk --but i do know that the little old sisters and lots of friends always gave his wife lots of envelopes

then he repeated the same talk program on sunday for the other side of the circuit. ALL CASH AND TAX FREE

there is this black bro at bethel who is the mentor for lots of black bro- A former DO --his name is JR Brown -a very POWERFUL SPEAKER

HE IS best Friends with Larry and Tina Graham the singer- from Graham Central Station----- this guy just recently bought a "Q45 Infinity"

WHAT'S THAT A $45,000 A CAR

my old roommate is still at bethel - works the Service Desk was telling me that alot of folks at bethel was Pi$$ed off with the fact that HE is driving around in a Q45 on $90.00 amonth

they get "hooked" up by the friends all the time

it is sorta like a Bethelite Perk-

I know even myself- who was a low life bethelite , my roommate and i were always being flown somewhere

many friends would come tour bethel and invite you out to visit thier halls Chicago,FL, LA

tHey would send you a ticket to fly out for the weekend to give a talk even as a MS

i recall going flying out to this hall in Chicago, i think every single sister in the City was there that sunday- SMILE-- NOT A BAD PERK I MIGHT SAY

so you can live well as a bethelite, so for me it wasn't any feeling of mistreatment BY THE BRO- it all came down to Dogmas

TO FIND OUT THAT YOUR entire belief system is built on sand-- and it hurts to find out what you beleived was the truth has turned out to be JOKE

**************

God knows that Waiting and I tend to drag the place into crass innuendoes and inane quotes.

*******

I ENJOYED ALL your post - we all add flavor to the dish with our different styles

cu

JT

99

Who really is the FDS?!?!?!?!?

by LDH in

jw
friends

hey all, hope you're having a great year so far.. before witnet was closed down, there was an interesting discussion regarding the fds and their failed prophecies.

i asked a question, but unfortunately there wasn't enought time to get everyone's view.. so i'll rephrase my posts, and wait to hear from y'all.. if we are so quick to say that the fds is a false prophet because of some failed prophecies (even tho they say they don't prophecy, we all know better) then how would you explain the bible book of jonah?.

a faithful prophet, jonah, followed (after much trial and tribulation to himself) jehovah's command to declare destruction on the city of nineveh.

JT

Here is a good point to ask in ref to the FDS

jw are taught that the FDS feeds all of gods' people by means of GB who resprent them so -- it has been explained to all jw that the GB (12 dudes)are representives of the FDS (8000 and some change)

if that is the case then:

What role does the FDS/8000 have when it comes to selecting who will represent them-

the GB select who will be on the GB- the 8000 anointed are not involved at all in the recommending or selecting of the GB

it is a club UNTO itself

smile

JT

17

Is it humanly possible....

by SixofNine in

jw
friends

...to read "crisis of concience" and continue on believing that the organization is (or ever was) gods organization?

JT

the word is "CONFIRMATION"

While there are persons who who i know that have read both and they continue to stay, most do not

the reason in my OPINION is due to CONFIRMATION

I believe that many jw have doubts and questions but due to the structure and constant indoctrination of the org they are unable to get a confirmation

I find that after most read his books they walk away saying:

"i always thought something was wrong with ...."

" I wondered about ..... for yrs"

but as soon as they start to wonder or question or doubt they exp THE TUNNEL OF DOUbt routine AS MENTIONED in one of the post below-

when you are constantly told that you are wicked, Satan is misleading you, or you are Spiritually weak for doubts and questions

one tries to dismiss quickly any doubts for fear that you are drifting away from god

but his books are well documented

when i read his books i decided LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY

i hoped and prayed that his book would be wrong, but it wasn't

i had to leave- no need to hold on to that "Beach Front TimeShare Property Coupon" for week 53 that all jw have signed up for

smile

JT

can read

17

Is it humanly possible....

by SixofNine in

jw
friends

...to read "crisis of concience" and continue on believing that the organization is (or ever was) gods organization?

JT

you should if you get the opportunity, it
would give you a view of the org that you will not believe

i read both boths in 10days over 1000 pages and then i cried for 10 more days

many of the names he mentions in his books i personally knew when i was at bethel

his books helped me to fully understand so many things i had often wondered about but you never could put your finger on it

26

GB dies???

by JT in

jw
friends

posted by ernest [ernest] on january 03, 2001 at 14:44:39 {l6c8f8mpkkj.cgracl3y0abnmpk0su}: .

dear friends, .

1/3/01 it was announced at morning worship today that brother karl klein, .

JT

I find it disgraceful that you were where you were at.

***********

looking back I agree, yet this is the life that those at the top live
esp MANY OF THE MAJOR PLAYERS AT BETHEL

in WT world it is not the MONEY unlike in many religions- it's the POWER.

case in point- the president OF THE usa makes $200,000 a yr yet Forbes spent $30-60million to run for a job that pays $200,000

it is not the money but the POWER of being the President of the USA

same in wt ---the avg male jw would clean banks at night for $3.25 and hour if he could be an Elder and on the District Program

and wt uses it titles and positions-- stick and carrot-- to keep it's members in line

I recall the very same thing that you do growing up as a jw kid

my mom had 4kids to drag to the conventions- getting a ride was hard many times- my mom often felt left out since she had no Elder husband and was rarely included in any thing unless it was baby shower

we would go to the meeting for service and my mom had to work with her 4kids - very little encouragement-so i decided when i became an elder i would NEVER the "low" jw feel left out

often times i would take the outcast friends with my wife and i when i gave talks in other halls for some who had been jw for 20YR they had never been invited to go along with an elder to visit another hall

it is very hard to be a Caring Elder due to the BEAT THE FRIENDS mindset that the Society instills in it's elders

as one DO use to say KEEP THE FRIEND BUSY
as a jw there is NEVER any down time always you are made to feel guilty- could you not be reading your mags, etc

at all times you have to eat and sleep wt- never any down time

are you using your time wisely Sister- are you buying out the opportune time and the list goes on and on.

in my exp i find that White bros and sister are more willing than black friends to question the society

even as an elder it was always the white elders who would challenge the CO, while most black bro wouldn't dare question a CO-

the JW faith appeals to blacks , i recall talking to so many black bethelites and just local friends who felt that the Org finally made us equal to white bro- so for blacks the Org is all they have to give them a sense of selfworth- how sad

hey i ejoyed your post

take care

JT

2

The Straight Dope site

by waiting in

jw
friends

hey y'all!.

i ran across this site today.

red.. for those as ignorant as i : http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=52801.

JT

great site and very interesting indeed

thanks

JT

26

GB dies???

by JT in

jw
friends

posted by ernest [ernest] on january 03, 2001 at 14:44:39 {l6c8f8mpkkj.cgracl3y0abnmpk0su}: .

dear friends, .

1/3/01 it was announced at morning worship today that brother karl klein, .

JT

h20 is another jw site

it can get very Wild over there -- smile

i have enjoyed it over there for almost 3 yrs though

the views go the entire spectrum smile

one of the things about that site is if you don't know what you are talking about- it will quickly show the poster over there can
DOCUMENT every single thing that the WT has said on a matter

i have often seen jw come over there with the "The Society never said that" mindset and get blown out of the water,

simply because they don't know WT history

some folks like it over there, others don't . but at least we all have the freedom to chose without being condemned

i enjoy your post i have read many of them and they are good

take care

JT

26

GB dies???

by JT in

jw
friends

posted by ernest [ernest] on january 03, 2001 at 14:44:39 {l6c8f8mpkkj.cgracl3y0abnmpk0su}: .

dear friends, .

1/3/01 it was announced at morning worship today that brother karl klein, .

JT

"I find you one of the most interesting posters over there."
*****************

thank you,

i recently found this site, There is alot of PAIN here, but they will find the needed comfort by sharing thier exp with others, many who have been thru the same thing

alot of my post reflects by background, if you don't mind i would like to share a few things about myself .I use the handle "1" over on h20 and there is a funny story about how I ended up using that handle-- but now i use "JT" for they ae my INITIALS

well here is a little about me:

**********************
I’m a 38 yr. old black man, I was raised as a jw from about the age of 5-

I gave up college scholarships to pioneer for 6months and I went to bethel ----I served there about 7yrs

I truly enjoyed bethel for I got to learn so much about the org

I hooked up with a Former DO who was my mentor- he works the Service desk now in Patterson

He trained me how to be an Excellent "Society Man"

as he stated there are 2 things one must do:

1. Love the bros. and sisters

2. Learn Organization Procedures like the back of your hand- he would say all the time

You may not be liked by some but you will ALWAYS BE RIGHT

fore if it is IN PRINT then you are right

When I left bethel as a MS I had a collections of Shepherding Material that we had put together that was about as good-- if not better than the one the avg. CO has in the field

I settled in a Congo with 4 former bethelites I made 5

We ran the Congo like Bethel

Everyone loved it --things were done on time all the time
just like we learned at bethel
It was known in the circuit as "LITTLE BETHEL"

I WAS APPOINTED AT 27 AS AN ELDER-----was on the District at 29 and started working in the Chairman's office at 30

I was one of the youngest guys up in the "SKYBOX"

While all the friends sat in the sun and sweated for the convention

My wife and I was up in the Skyboxes with AC chilling out

While other friends could not get a cool drink of water at their seats
We had a MS who would run down to the food stands and bring us up our food and drink , which we enjoyed THRUOUT the ENTIRE program

My wife never stood in line to use the bathroom-- we had one in our SKYBOX

As they say at bethel I was on the FAST TRACK.,

FOR MANY on the net I see their exp.
THEIR PAIN AND THIER ANGER

MANY FEEL THAT they were cut short or dealt with unkindly by the elders in thier congo, yes they felt that they got DOGGED, yep
"THE SHAFT"

Or they were just the OUTCAST of their Congo

So when they come to the net they are mad as Hell

That was not the case for me-- I was loved and well respected as an elder and former bethelite

All of our CO's were former bethelites and they always made sure that any former bethelite got parts on the Circuit and District program

Not much was the result of "God gave him that assignment"
MORE LIKE ---Who you know

They just like giving parts to all the former bethelites--- as one CO told us

"I know you guys are Trained"

So for me I was happy as a lark, fine wife, good job, well respected elder who was on the fast track

So why in the world would I as one of my bethel buddies put it:

"Bite the hand that feeds you"

Well it all started back in 95 when The Boys in Writing Dropped the Generation doctrine

One night 3 couples all former bethelites we were sitting around talking about it and it's implications on what we teach

You see bethelites have always to some degree questioned the org more than most Local bro do

Then The Writing Dept dropped the Separating of the sheep and Goats

Then They dropped the Alternative Service rule--

I had a very good friend who was an older Elder when I was in New York who went to Prison for 3yrs instead of working at the hospital due to that rule.

He has had some problems since being in prison, now I have NEVER ASKED HIM AND I NEVER WILL-- but from everyone I know who should be in the know -

Tells me that this bro was raped repeatedly while he was in prison as a 19-yr. old kid and I will never ask him directly about it.

I stated that to say this:

When they changed the alternative service rule- he called me up and he broke down and cried

The Society has tried to present this as "THIER CONSCIECNES WERE JUST VERY STRICT IS WHY THEY WENT TO PRISON"

WHILE THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS that IS A LIE

As he put it ---during the Vietnam War all the young bro were getting draft letters

Him and his mama went to the elders to get advice and they shared with him the Current positon in the wt---- where basically it stated if you are Loyal you will not take the alternative job--POINT BLANK--

So as he put it-- it was not a conscience matter ---he thought he was being loyal to god

To this very day he has slowed down and step aside as an elder

He still wants to hold on to WT world, but he is a crushed man

So after the last elders school I told my wife I can't take it anymore

The school mainly focused on DO MORE DO MORE, BEAT THE FRIENDS, BEAT THE FRIENDS

And judicial matters is mainly what we talked about.

Then I went up on the Net

I felt that if I have the truth it will stand the test

Well after trying to defend the Boys in Writing I realized how little I knew about wt history.

So I stop going into chartrooms and open forums

And just found sites where there was no commentary just wt history-

I order Ray Franz’s book and I read both in 10days
then I cried for 10 more --smile

At that point I knew what I had to do - being an elder at the time I knew how the Program works for apostates/anyone questioning the boys in writing.

So I started giving up my assignments-- one at a time
HVC,.Circuit acct overseer, SEC in my hall and finally I stepped down as an elder

I told the body I was so busy with work that I could not do a good job as an elder and it's not fair to my bookstudy and the friends etc.

The night I turned in my flockbook was the last time I stepped foot into a Kingdom Hall- and we used to get alot of phone calls from jw we knew

In fact folks all over the country esp former bethelites called when they heard I stepped aside

Then just recently we built a 3700 sq. ft home in another state and moved

A completely new area and we are loving it

My wife and I are now back in college and we run an IT biz

So we are busy and we are making all new friends and it's hard at times

My father-in-law has decided to leave as well as my mom

Mother in-law refuses to even talk about it, my dad was never a jw

My mom told me that 10-yr. ago she knew something was wrong and she was afraid to say anything to me because I was an elder a "SOCIETY MAN"

She said I knew you would tell my elders and they would DF me

So she never said anything to me or my wife about her views on the org all those yrs

Damn man I could have gotten out sooner

Smile

So I have a very rounded view of the Org and how it operates that the AVG jw will never see

And how sad

- At this point for us we have decided to take a break from the bible and religion after over 60yrs COMBINED of wt world -- and arguing with folks as to whether Jesus Died on a “Light Pole or Telephone Pole” we figure we need a break- SMILE

I didn't mean to ramble on and on

But I felt that sometimes when you put a life exp. behind a HANDLE it makes all the difference in the world

TAKE CARE

JT AKA "1"

my intialswith you putting thier life back tog I guess alot has to do with my background as a JW, , i hope that some of my post

3

Documented Abuses by WT

by JT in

jw
friends

i have read a number of post here and the pain and suffering that wt has inflicted on so many folks is truly sad.

awhile back a poster made the following comments about wt abuses and i wanted to share them with you for they are so true and so sad.

enjoy.

JT

I have read a number of Post here and the Pain and suffering that WT has inflicted on so many folks is truly sad. Awhile back a poster made the following comments about WT ABUSES AND I wanted to share them with you for they are so True and so Sad

Enjoy

JT.

<I>***There are millions of documented abuses by the WTS***

If you documented every life that has been twisted by this cult, then he is right. Count the number of children convinced to become social outcasts over lies, count the number of young boys abused in prisons when alternative service was not allowed as it is now, count the number of loving children, parents, brothers, sisters and other friends and relatives shunned over not sin but disagreement on doctrine, count the number of marriages broken up,count the suicides, count those suffering from depression, count the number of people who didn't have children when they wanted to due to false predictions made by the Jehovah's Witnesses and who now can't due to age, count the number of people condemned to low wages and long hours, count the number of people facing poverty in their old age from not preparing or having jobs with good benefits due to Jehovah's Witness lies about the world ending and not "arranging the furniture on the Titantic." Yeah, I think he has his numbers and if anything is being conservative with his figures. If you look at the waves of pain sent out even through the non-witness relatives and friends over such things as not celebrating birthdays or being close to any who aren't in the "Truth(/lie)" then it might well swell above millions as each witness has borne many, many pains and inflicted many, many pains in his or her lifetime.
You are the Idiot if you deny the record of this group as they are on paper, everything from the "poison puss" of vaccinations and aluminum to the masthead of the Awake for all those years printing the lie they had to change. You have chosen, as have these Other Sheep, to be the tool of liars and evil men. Your knowledge of the sin and your pathetic desire to be recognized as one of the leaders of this twisted group only makes you more culpable.
I Pity the Fool that follows either you or your idols.
Tantalus

</I>
The words of Carl Sagan are so True

<blockquote>
Doctrines that make no predictions are less compelling than those which make correct predictions; they are in turn more successful than doctrines that make false predictions. But not always. One prominent American religion confidently predicted that the world would end in 1914. Well, 1914 has come and gone, and -- while the events of that year were certainly of some importance -- the world does not, at least so far as I can see, seem to have ended.
There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, "Oh, did we say '1914'? So sorry, we meant '2014'. A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvenienced in any way." But they did not. They could have said, "Well, the world *would* have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God and He spared the Earth." Instead, they did something much more ingenious. They announced that the world *had* in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout.
It is astonishing in the face of such transparent evasions that this religion has any adherents at all. But religions are tough. Either they make no contentions which are subject to disproof or they quickly redesign doctrine after disproof. The fact that religions can be so shamelessly dishonest, so contemptuous of the intelligence of their adherents, and still flourish does not speak very well for the tough-mindedness of the believers. But it does indicate, if a demonstration were needed, that near the core of the religious experience is something remarkably resistant to rational inquiry.
— quote from "Broca's Brain" by Carl Sagan, p. 332, twelfth edition

26

GB dies???

by JT in

jw
friends

posted by ernest [ernest] on january 03, 2001 at 14:44:39 {l6c8f8mpkkj.cgracl3y0abnmpk0su}: .

dear friends, .

1/3/01 it was announced at morning worship today that brother karl klein, .

JT

h20

Posted by Ernest [Ernest] on January 03, 2001 at 14:44:39 {L6c8f8mpkkj.CgrACL3Y0abnMpK0sU}:
Dear friends,
1/3/01 It was announced at morning worship today that Brother Karl Klein,
a member of the Governing Body, has passed away. He was 95 years old. He
was baptized in 1918, entered Bethel in 1925, married in 1963, and a member
of the Governing Body since 1974. His life story appeared in the 10/1/84 WT
************************************

I didn’t have time to ck to see if this is accurate or not , but hey Karl is the dude you can thank for all those sad Kingdom songs in the song book

he used to dog all music when i was at bethel even JAZZ, but he loved that classical stuff

he used to dog the life style of the artist- yet from what i understand the classical dudes got thier share of "Nookie" as well

smile

JT