firstly let me say that i am not trying to offend believers - i was one for most of my life.
nor is this a discussion about whether god/religion is a 'good' or 'bad' thing, that argument will rage forever.
what i'm asking is really a simple question;.
JT,
always interesting.
Aniron,
They are always keep saying that one day beings from another world will make contact with us.
What if they do and we discover that they worship a God, shall we say, what if they believe in a Creator. Very similar to peoples belief on Earth of a Creator.
How would that affect us?
What if they already made contact . . and thats where we got our legends about gods?
Jst2laws
this is hard to explain, but i will try.
the other day, my neice was put in the hospital for test , after having two seizures, she is 20 and has never had any medical problems at all.
i now know, that by doing that it seemed to take the burden of helplessness off of my shoulders.
Lyineyes,
I think I need to spend more time out in nature just letting what may come to me , come. I figure it can't hurt, it might actually make me feel .. something
Now your talkin. And don't question it, don't jugde it, just go with it.
Jst2laws
this is hard to explain, but i will try.
the other day, my neice was put in the hospital for test , after having two seizures, she is 20 and has never had any medical problems at all.
i now know, that by doing that it seemed to take the burden of helplessness off of my shoulders.
Lyineyes,
Don't feel ashamed of your desire to pray. Being duped by the publishing corporation that evolved into a religion and finding out their god, Jehovah, does not exist does not mean all spirituality is a fraud.
I prayed as a Baptist and felt I was connecting to what we called God.
I prayed s a JW and felt I was connecting to what we called Jehovah.
Now, as a non-religious person, I pray and I connect just as before, but not to a guy in the sky. I have grown spiritually and do not pray to an anthropomorphic god which has a name. I know serveral scientist who also pray but do not believe in the god of orthodox religion. It is beneficial for you and it has been documented to have good affect on others.
Whatever it is we are doing and whom ever or whatever it is we are speaking to, it is real. You know it and so do I. Those who never connected may someday appreciate this experience as well. So keep doing it.
Just my opinion, and experience.
Jst2laws
also, under the heading at the bottom of the page: current legislation: we read, "such arrangements may be made with international organizations and, where appropriate, with national organizations (after consultation) with the member of the united nations concerned.".
1.3 current legislation .
the article states that the ecosoc may make arrangements for both national and international ngos: .
Good work Voyager,
Besides the "rules" governing participation by NGO's "(REMAINED IN USE FOR ALMOST THREE DECADES)! "
you help verify another issue: Was the Watchtower simply "registered" with the DPI (as they claim) or was it a "partner" with the UN?
.3 Current legislation
Partnership arrangements between NGOs and the United Nations are outlined in the following documents. The preamble of the UN Charter begins with "WE, THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS ". This has come to mean both Member States and civil society. More details are given in the article 71 of the Charter, which recognizes NGOs legally and formally as partners within the UN system. The article states that the ECOSOC may make arrangements for both national and international NGOs:
Then your quote of the Watchtower/1995 makes it clear what they WT knew
Fifty Years of Frustrated Efforts
"WE THE PEOPLES OF THE UNITED NATIONS DETERMINED to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind, and to reaffirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small, . . ."?Preamble to the charter of the United Nations.
They carefully omit the fact that "WE THE PEOPLES" (quoted in the WT) includes " both Member States and civil society", as the UN document clearly shows.
How could they research and publish the above article without nullifying their best argument, "we didn't know"?
How can they now make their defense: "we were only registered" as an NGO when it was clearly a "partnership" with the UN?
Even if they plead it was an ignorant mistake, they should all be dealt with judicially as any one of us would be for a like mistake. Perhaps this is why they try to minimize their PARTNERSHIP.
Jst2laws
im leaving guys thank you "apostates" lol witnesses are a messed up cult i wish i had known about this sooner ive been raised in "the truth" im 16 im leaveing tomorrow
Okla,
now all i gotta do is tough it out while my whole family cries thinking im going to die its makes me mad
Well, you are past that stage of living a double life. Your families reaction is rather typical of cult members.
I hope you remain thoughtful of your families feelings. They REALLY BELIEVE the WT stuff. Yet, as you say, they will not listen to you. I would suggest, after you give the family time to get accustomed to your stand, you try to be a good son and brother and just look for little tidbits to offer your family members to give them a little desire to look beyond their constraints.
Jst2laws
a critical expose of the publication organized to do jehovah's will.
i will post scriptures in context wherever they appear, the portion pointed to by the governing body will be highlighted in yellow.
letter from the governing body of jehovah's witnesses (the masters over your faith): paragraph 1:.
OldSoul,
This enables the Governing Body to be responsible for all actions taken by individual Congregations without being legally accountable for anything those Congregations do. It is callow cowardice, however ancient the perpetrators. (Psalm 10:7-11)
They learned long ago to make the local congregations seem to be autonomous so when people are hurt by their flawed theology (child abuse, depression and suicide, needless death due to refusal of blood and blood fractions) it appears to the courts that only the local elders are "accountable".
There is a flood of litigation coming to court in California alone. As the WT has tried to remove itself as defendant in all of them the outcome would be finding local elders liable instead of their "channel of communication" from God, which is in reality the governing body.
Nice review of the new book, although a little too much reading for my tired mind at the end of a hard day.
Jst2laws
"bliss!
it's bliss for you.
a handphone was given to me and it was bliss calling to pass on the .
A big releaf for you and your wife too, to be on this side of the surgery.
Now the recovery.
Take care and give it time.
Jst2laws
i like guns.
i like the feel of them.
i like the fine engineering too.
Englishman,
While I do not own guns and have no use for them I do not see gun ownership as the problem. Canadians hunt and own a lot of guns yet they firearm/homocide rate is a fraction of the US. There is something else wrong in the US rather than the second amendment or even the allowance of concealed weapons. Personally I think is it linked to the level of fear the fundamentalist religions impose on Americans. Fear, distrust, justification of violence comes from religious idiocy.
Simon,
You made some interesting points.
Steve
i like guns.
i like the feel of them.
i like the fine engineering too.
Then you claimed you said:Didn't I even say, "I also seem to recall reading that a related motivation was that people could protect themselves from their own nasty governmentSo, to answer your question ... NO, You didn't say that at all !!
Huh!! Alan said:
As I understand it, the main purpose of the 2nd Amendment was not simply to allow people to bear arms to hunt and such, but to be able to protect themselves from nasty governments such as the British they were in the process of fighting. I also seem to recall reading that a related motivation was that people could protect themselves from their own nasty government -- which is not such a bad idea
Jst2laws
im leaving guys thank you "apostates" lol witnesses are a messed up cult i wish i had known about this sooner ive been raised in "the truth" im 16 im leaveing tomorrow
Okla,
You often refer to your urgent need to get out.
but i thought about it for a while and i really just wanna get out as fast as possible
If you mean "get out" that you want to get out from under Watchtower control, it appears you are already doing that. You were "out" the moment you decided it was a cult. Just stick to your resolve to refuse their leash. If you mean "get out" as to officially disassociating yourself, only a little more will be gained beyond what you have already accomplished, that is your mental and emotional FREEDOM you have now.
I'll suggest you listen to others here and take it a step at a time. Counselor tomorrow, maybe a couple of meetings with the counselor. Then give yourself time to think through the next necessary steps. YOU ARE IN CONTROL now, that is what is most important. But you are also young. If you are going to suddenly enter the adult world of decision making at age 16 you can expect to make some big mistakes due to lack of experience. Be very careful and make each decision after examining every possible side affect.
As to the legal side of leaving the WT without official WT action, PM me if you would like. The "ecclesiastical privilege" principle that protects religions from government interference is hard to crack. As Oldsoul said, in the real world you would not be held to a contract made at your age or younger. Assuming you are baptized, you made a contract with a publishing corporation masquerading as a religion. Really, since 1985 the second baptism question stated your agreement to live by the Watchtower corporation's rules. Someday this is going to be challenged by a young person who wants that contract nullified.
Sad thing is, if you leave with a big bang, your parents and friends will shun you whether or not official action is taken. There are other ways to leave the WT without such severe treatment but they take patience.
So slow down and enjoy your revelation, your new found freedom. As others here, I admire you and wish I had the Internet and your guts 40 years ago.
Jst2laws
