jst2laws

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Posts by jst2laws

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  8

  Does God play dice?

  by truthseeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how does jehovah decide who to save and who not to save?.

  the gb informs you that, "we have jehovah's protection on us as a group.".

  but when whole jw families are murdered by their parents, children in the organization are sexually molested and sisters get caught in crossfire while leaving a kingdom hall, the message is this.... .

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  jst2laws

  Shoot

  I thought we finally had a discussion about Quantum Physics and reality.

  Jst2laws
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  19

  Vomit alert re Tsunami and Governing Body

  by stillajwexelder in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  just had this garabge in my e-mail from a sister.

  this report is not verified.

  yet if true, our prayers go out to.

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  jst2laws

  Blondie,

  I like your logic.

  Jst2laws
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  99

  Letter From President George W. Bush

  by prophecor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ok so maybe i'm being played but believe it or not, i just got a letter from the president, that's right, the president of the united states of america!!!

  he was thanking many of his constituents for supporting him in his campaign.

  and get this, unlike the the problems that are resulting from donald rumsfeld's not taking the time to sign the letters, notifying their loved ones of the soldiers deaths, this appears to be written out in his own personal handwriting.

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  jst2laws

  it appears to be legit because it appears to be rushed and slightly illegible, which would explain its hurriedly written appearance, but it surely seems to be the real Mc Coy.

  That is normal. It's hard to find minimum wage, temp workers who can write legibly.

  Jst2laws
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  61

  Should the Christian faith be rationally defended?

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in the pretty miscellaneous "global flood" thread there were a couple of exchanges on the value of "apologetics" per se.

  i think this subject is worth a thread of its own.

  i will here recall some statements in the aforementioned thread:.

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  jst2laws

  No, it should not be rationally defended.

  There are two basic ways of knowing truth in modern society.

  One is rational aconsideration of evidence leading to truth, the ultimate system we call the scientific method.

  The other is Revelation, that is God revealing truth to mankind. The revelations of truth are not to be questioned or tested rationally, but are to be taken on 'faith'.

  Before you conclude that faith then is worthless because the revelations cannot stand up to rationality, consider two issues:

  1 Faith was never intended to stand on rationality or be tested scientifically.

  2 Religion and faith are based on intuitive knowledge which is unfortunately promoted by religionist/spiritual con-men as absolute and inerrant.

  Religion and religious writings were traditionally accepted as dependable, revealed by God, until thinking men about 500 years ago resurrected (from Greek philosophers) and developed rational thought into a system of inquiry, logical explanation and tests of the logic by prediction and experimentation.

  The result, since Descartes, is religionist trying to establish and "defend" their faith rationally, which is impossible. Islam and Judaism have the same problem. Most Eastern religions do not have this problem because they have always openly based their faith on 'intuitive' knowledge and consider 'rational' knowledge as inferior.

  Jst2laws
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  29

  What does the elder manual say the procedure is?

  by mkr32208 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  what does the elder manual say the procedure is when someone reports child abuse?

  my father in law is telling my wife that is says to go straight to the proper authorities... i have a hard time buying that since thats not what the watchtowers i've seen have said!

  any one have the low down on this?

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  jst2laws

  Ozzie,

  Are you saying the "Sunday" program exposed the WT's GB to violation of US law? Little could be done here with the RICO act if it was a Aussie branch office decision. Can you fill me in?

  Jst2laws
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  29

  What does the elder manual say the procedure is?

  by mkr32208 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  what does the elder manual say the procedure is when someone reports child abuse?

  my father in law is telling my wife that is says to go straight to the proper authorities... i have a hard time buying that since thats not what the watchtowers i've seen have said!

  any one have the low down on this?

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  jst2laws

  Oldsoul,

  Were you ever instructed to destroy records or letters? I have a difficult time picturing you complying with that one.

  No, but I know of others who seemed to be so motivated. If we could pin that down as coming directly from the WT we would not only have obstruction of justice but might even be able to make a case with the RICO Act. Fairmind,

  I seem to recall that the WTS has stated that according to scripture, Christians are to obey they laws of Caesar as long as they do not go contrary to God?s commands (this is the point I want to be corrected on if my memory is incorrect).

  The WT has made a fair effort to obey the law regarding child molestation, at least compared to the Catholic Church. But these laws vary from state to state. The do not go a step beyond what is required by law, and as in my case seem to occasionally forget to inform local elders what the state law requires. In Mass they even defended their right in court regarding the Berry girls to NOT report the abuse to authorities. WT reps sat next to a convicted molester in court (imprisoned likely for the rest of his life) while defending their right to withhold the info from the authorities that would have prevented the second Berry child from also suffering molestation. Gumby

  And that my friends is bold face lying at it's best! "Personal Decision" doesn't exist within the confines of this cult and everyone knows it. No elder will criticize anyone who reports my ass! Go ask the hundreds who have been DFed for taking that very action if these words are true or not.

  Gumby, I suspect you have good reason to feel this way, as I myself felt that way some years ago. But consider two points that might apply now. 1 That WT letter was from Feb 2002, well after the fit hit the sand with Dateline investigators requesting responses to what they planned to air in 2001 but put off until May of 2002. The WT knew they were in trouble and this letter to the body of elders, if not a reaction to, was very much affected by their own cognizance of what was coming down. I suspect they were desparately modifying their policy and it has since become the WT standard. 2 You are not alone in feeling "No elder will criticize anyone who reports my ass!" . But there were many real people who happened to be 'elders' who were doing all they could to do the right thing. Most of them are STILL in the WT. The atmosphere among elder bodies has changed somewhat since the public exposure. Presently, this is a hot issue and the mistakes made in the past by the average elder body may still occur but it would surely be rare. Jst2laws
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  8

  A celebration, an embarrassment

  by zev in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20041225/opinion/412250600/1029

  there has been much talk lately about where christ belongs in christmas when it comes to our government and public schools.

  until the early 1990s, i was among those who declared, "what's the harm?

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  jst2laws

  hello Zev,

  Good story. And good to hear from you again.

  Steve
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  29

  What does the elder manual say the procedure is?

  by mkr32208 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  what does the elder manual say the procedure is when someone reports child abuse?

  my father in law is telling my wife that is says to go straight to the proper authorities... i have a hard time buying that since thats not what the watchtowers i've seen have said!

  any one have the low down on this?

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  jst2laws

  As AlanF said, there is little in the PATF ("Paying Attention to the Flock" - elder's manual) about child molestation and how to handle it. As Blondie said, we were drilled often: 'Any report of child molestation Call the Society immediately'. Then you do exactly as you are told by the "legal department".

  I have done this. I have to say that the WT representatives I dealt with regarding molestation in both the service dept and the legal department seemed concerned about the victims and doing the right thing. Did their personal concern translate to a realistic approach to the problem. NO.

  1 The last case I dealt with I was in a 'reporting' state but the legal department did not tell me this (which means I may have broken the law). Nor was the issue of the elders or the victim or their parents going to the authorities addressed by "Service" nor by "legal".

  2 Not one comment was made by "Service" nor "Legal" regarding how to support the victim or the need of professional counseling. The entire context of the discussion and investigation was about establishing the facts (by multiple witnesses or a confession) and how to proceed if guilt is established. The victim's needs were NEVER DISCUSSED.

  But I Did OBEY, and called the WT as soon as I became aware of child molestation, which is the FIRST step according to their rules. I may be mistaken, but I think they put this in a "Body of Elders" letter in the mid 90's. My obeying helped no one. None of the accused suffered congregations sanctions nor were the authorities involved. None of the claimed victims recieved professional evaluation or counseling. The Watchtower individuals I dealt with were truly concerned, and involved. But THEIR faith too was in a system that does not work.

  Jst2laws

  Jst2laws
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  120

  Uh oh, we got caught

  by Mulan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we are so busted.

  i learned tonight, from my source, that someon saw our christmas tree and reported it to the elders.. rats, our days of anonymity are likely almost over.

  starting tuesday, the local congregation has the circuit and the district overseer, before their ca next weekend.

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  jst2laws

  A Christmas tree?

  I'm stumbled.

  Steve
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  20

  People That I Would Like To Drown In A large Tub Of Caterpillars.

  by hillary_step in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the person who designed car alarms to squeak like beached dolphins when they are locked by their owners.

  too often i have meandered in a daydream through a car park entertaining myself by imagining larry king spontaneously combusting as he licks yet another serial killers toes, and suddenly the car next to me has belched into shrieking life just long enough to stop my heart.

  test your next invention on your ageing grandmother before you sell it, you pillock.

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  jst2laws

  XW,

  That would be Johny Walker.

  HS does not drink much except for one of two circumstances: He loves to drink Johny Walker Red when he is alone. Otherwise he only drinks socially.

  How are you HS.

  Steve