Posts by alice.in.wonderland

104

Ezekiel 29:12 - Prophecy of the Desolation of Egypt for 40 years

by VM44 in

ezekiel 29:12. new international version(1984).

i will make the land of egypt desolate among devastated lands, and her cities will lie desolate forty years among ruined cities.

and i will disperse the egyptians among the nations and scatter them through the countries.. new living translation(2007).

alice.in.wonderland

Leolaia, I Googled your name in combination with Jehovah's Witnesses and turns out you're all over the internet formulating information against Jehovah's Witnesses. Freeminds even has a book: Exposing `Should You Believe In The Trinity?'

It's seems more reasonable to point to the absurdity of the Trinity than to address and disprove the trinitarian "proof texts" in the Bible. Even if these scriptures trinitarians point to stated something in plain speech like: "God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are three persons in one: A Trinity." 1 Trinity 3:16. Would this really prove anything?

ti p. 4 How Is the Trinity Explained?

"Beyond the Grasp of Human Reason"

This confusion is widespread. The Encyclopedia Americana notes that the doctrine of the Trinity is considered to be "beyond the grasp of human reason."

Many who accept the Trinity view it that same way. Monsignor Eugene Clark says: "God is one, and God is three. Since there is nothing like this in creation, we cannot understand it, but only accept it." Cardinal John O'Connor states: "We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don't begin to understand." And Pope John Paul II speaks of "the inscrutable mystery of God the Trinity."

Thus, A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge says: "Precisely what that doctrine is, or rather precisely how it is to be explained, Trinitarians are not agreed among themselves."

Nobody really believes in the Trinity, they just say they do.

If someone were to say, "I believe 1+1+1 = 1." If this person received at least a D- in math on their first report card in kindergarten, I'd know they don't believe that.

http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth-32-390-Religion.aspx

Most major religions have believed in the existence of a supernatural realm, a realm beyond the natural world of physical objects and bodies governed by causal laws, the world we perceive with our senses and can study by rational methods. Some religions posit a personal god (or gods); others believe in impersonal supernatural forces. (See George Walsh, The Role of Religion in History, chapter 1.) Objectivism rejects any notion of the supernatural as incompatible with the objectivity and regularity of nature as identified by reason. There is no credible evidence of miracles, magic, or other supernatural phenomena in nature.

The dominant forms of religion in our culture posit a personal god, a Supreme Being, who created the world, is omnipotent and omniscient, imposes moral duties on man, and expects worship. Those who accept this idea have the burden of showing why such a hypothesis is necessary. In this regard, Objectivists are atheists because the arguments for the existence of such a being are not sound. Objectivists reject the existence of God for the same reason they reject the existence of elves, leprechauns, and unicorns: because there is no credible evidence of such beings.

Objectivism regards reason as an absolute. It holds that all knowledge is based on the evidence of the senses. It holds that all beliefs, conclusions, and convictions must be established by logical methods of inquiry and tested by logical methods of verification. In short, it holds that the scientific approach applies to all areas of knowledge. Blind faith, by contrast, consists in belief not based on evidence, or based on such spurious forms of "evidence" as revelation and authority. Faith is essentially an arbitrary exercise of the mind, a willful credulity based on subjective emotions rather than objective evidence, a desire for certainty without the scrupulous cognitive effort required to achieve rational certainty. Faith cannot substitute for reason as a means of knowledge, nor can it supplement reason. Reason is incompatible with arbitrary procedures of any kind.

Even if you believe God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are three separate entities, outside of Jehovah's Organization you don't even have any evidence that the benevolent God of the Bible (YHWH) exists, let alone a religion with anymore truth to it than Jehovah's Witnesses. That's is why campaigning against Jehovah's Witnesses is a blind ambition or an endeavor that has no practical meaning. Maybe it's a tribute to Satan and I guess that has its own special type of reward.

39

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 06-06-10 WT Study (YOUNG PEOPLE) TEST PLEASE FORGIVE ME

by blondie in

jw
friends

young people strengthen your desire to serve jehovah.

what invitation was extended to children in the christian congregation?

serve god or the wts?.

alice.in.wonderland

I never said humans can designate specific individuals that have sinned against the holy spirit. I will say reading the things you say (poison) is telling me you have something deeply wrong with you (the fact you understand in depth the Unforgivable Sin and at the same time twist up Bible teachings). Doesn't bother me, because it's not me doing it. Very few people pursue this course. It is safe for me to say that your are an apostate. What you are doing is rotten to the core. Even my disfellowshipped mother would say so if she read this stuff. I will not be speaking with you again.

39

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 06-06-10 WT Study (YOUNG PEOPLE) TEST PLEASE FORGIVE ME

by blondie in

jw
friends

young people strengthen your desire to serve jehovah.

what invitation was extended to children in the christian congregation?

serve god or the wts?.

alice.in.wonderland

"practice things that God’s Word shows to be wicked. [If they persist in this course]"

Persistence indicates deliberateness. If there's a potencial for repentance why would they be destroyed? Though the faithful and discreet slave makes references and warnings about the reality of Armageddon (all religions have apocalyptic teachings of one kind or another), that's not why people pursue the truth about Jehovah. It's actually other religions that use manipulation about a punishment phase from God.

Re: Yes, praying may be comforting, but...:

There is also CERTAINLY the potential that you are correct and there is no god. If not, then NEITHER OF US CAN BE HELD TO BE AT FAULT. You see, if I am wrong, I am wrong, and nothing we do or have done on a 'spiritual level' has been purposeful except for our own minds. If you are wrong, you are in for a nightmare after your death, and you have only fostered the only delusion that puts anyone at risk. Yours is the most shaky position, mine is the only stable one, regardless of the outcome!
Posted by ConcernedPerson

Your self-delusion is phenomenal. In fact, it's so blinding that you cannot even grasp the incredibly vicious threat that you just made with your pathetic but predictable reprisal of Pascal's Wager.

If you are wrong, YOU ARE AT FAULT for threatening perfectly innocent people (in this very message!) that they are "in for a nightmare after their death," which is, far from being a "fault free" position, VERBAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL ABUSE AT ITS MOST SEVERE. And being a "true believer," you have undoubtedly been promoting such psychological abuse to others your entire life. If you are wrong (which I think you are), you have committed poisonous mental abuse against other people, mister. Why don't you consider THAT for a moment?
Posted by Snake_Munro

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascals_Wager Pascal's Wager (or Pascal's Gambit) is a suggestion posed by the French philosopher Blaise Pascal that even though the existence of God cannot be determined through reason, a person should wager as though God exists, because living life accordingly has everything to gain, and nothing to lose. It was set out in note 233 of his Pensées, a posthumously published collection of notes made by Pascal in his last years as he worked on a treatise on Christian apologetics.

Jehovah's Witnesses don't speak with such uncertainty or with blind manipulation:

http://www.apuritansmind.com/ChristianWalk/TheGospelOfJesusChrist.htm

The Gospel of Jesus Christ

A brief tract on what the Gospel is about in the form of an analogy called "The Treasure Map." This is great and wonderful grace of Christ who came to save his people.

Click here if you hate Jesus Christ...

39

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 06-06-10 WT Study (YOUNG PEOPLE) TEST PLEASE FORGIVE ME

by blondie in

jw
friends

young people strengthen your desire to serve jehovah.

what invitation was extended to children in the christian congregation?

serve god or the wts?.

alice.in.wonderland

"COMMENTS

Young people = only jws = survive into God’s promised new world

All 7 billion nonjws, men, women, children and babies will be destroyed, killed for eternity, no hope of a resurrection."

The only people that have a certainty of destruction at Armageddon are apostates.

w6 98/15p.511Questions From Readers

What is the unforgivable sin?—E.M.,U.S.A.

The type of sin mentioned in the Bible as being unforgivable is not simply a category such as stealing, lying or sexual immorality. These things are serious, however, and may involve unforgivable sin. (Rev. 21:8) But the unforgivable sin is deliberate sin against the manifest operation of God’s spirit. It springs from a heart that is thoroughly and forever alienated from God.

They'll never repent. Who ever wrote this isn't even any good at twisting up information, it's just a dilapidated mess after all the unnecessary pointers are added in. You might as well invent a whole new language if the intent is to confuse children to the point of no return. How do the "Bible experts" interpret Hebrews 6:4-6?

For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame. Hebrews6:4-6

82

God, Gays & Evangelicals

by alice.in.wonderland in

while participating on this website (one of the only three places i've discussed religion online) i asked a question:.

i've observed quite a few posts and comments here about religious intolerance toward gay men and women (i'm quoting), the terror and murder of homosexuals instigated by christians.

the religion i was raised in was in agreement with the bible based view that alternative lifestyles are immoral but they never instigated any hateful rhetoric toward gay men or women.

alice.in.wonderland

While participating on this website (one of the only three places I've discussed religion online) I asked a question:

I've observed quite a few posts and comments here about religious intolerance toward gay men and women (I'm quoting), “the terror and murder of homosexuals instigated by Christians.” The religion I was raised in was in agreement with the Bible based view that alternative lifestyles are immoral but they never instigated any hateful rhetoric toward gay men or women. I've never even been inside a traditional Christian church, so the question to those who attend Christian churches is; do they regularly condemn homosexuality and incite hate or are these claims blown out of proportion by persons opposed to Christianity?

One response:

Alice,

I don't think one can accurately classify all of Christianity with one answer to these questions. There is a lot of ground to cover between, say, Progressive Christianity and Westboro Baptist Church. On one hand, Progressive Christians share many values with the politically liberal. On the other hand, Westboro Baptist Church's motto is "God Hates Fags." That's even the domain name for their website. (I'm not going to post it because I don't want to lead people to it. The link above goes to a Wikipedia page.)

God, Gays & Evangelicals - From Jill Carroll, Houston religion expert and author

I was struck this week by the image of Lakewood Church Senior Pastor Joel Osteen praying for the success of Houston's new mayor. Lakewood, the largest Christian church in North America, is a socially conservative, broadly evangelical faith community. Mayor Annise Parker is a lesbian. Continued...

Comments from gay forum participants:
Thank you for the excellent and timely post Jill. As the war between the gay community and Christianity escalates I have a feeling we will be seeing much more hate-filled rhetoric.

American evangelicals should hang their heads in shame that their own leaders have inspired legislation that is nothing short of genocidal. They have taken their "faith" to an all time low. Even though they try to deny any connection, don't ever doubt the evangelicals would introduce similar legislation in this nation if they thought they could get away with it.

Don't give Joel Osteen too much credit just yet either. If you remember last year Jay Baker, Jim and Tammy Faye Baker's son who is gay tried to meet with Joel Osteen and Osteen refused to even meet with him. Also don't forget Osteen is trying to purchase Compaq Center from the city after enjoying his sweetheart deal lease, so he needs Mayor Parker. THAT is the only reason he prayed for her, he needs her.

Homosexuals were on this Earth long before man invented Christianity, we'll be here long after it fades into history too.

Posted by: CoolGayDad at January 6, 2010 05:28 PM

I made the mistake of defending FOTF on behalf of a Catholic friend without being up to date on their policies:

Controversial advertisement removed from NCAA website Alice, you seem to miss the whole point about why the ad was pulled. FotF is an organization that is known for its anti-gay ads and rhetoric. The NCAA has a policy of inclusiveness. The public is smart enough to know when organizations like FotF use 'code' to refer to their bigoted positions, and the NCAA doesn't want its supporters or athletes to be offended. If the KKK paid CBS for the same ad, and the ad said, "All I want is for my son to grow up knowing how to do the right thing", we could make some assumptions about what the KKK meant when it said, "the right thing", and it would be highly offensive to many people simply due to the fact that it came from a discriminatory source. There's no difference. The problem is, you don't see yourself as a bigot or hater, but you are if you support organizations like FotF. Sorry if the truth hurts.

FotF pours tons of money into ads and political campaigns that they believe will further their agenda. Unfortunately, their agenda is partially to obstruct the civil rights of a large portion of society. Gays do not seek to infringe on the rights of heterosexuals, yet many heterosexuals seek to do so to gays. By allowing blacks and interracial couples the same civil rights and privileges as whites, we did not infringe on the rights of whites. Even so, many whites used the Bible as a weapon to try to prevent equal rights for minorities. I don't understand how people can't see the parallels. The Bible has been used to perpetuate slavery and to subjugate women. Christ did not intend for ancient Jewish law to be used out of context and as a weapon (and he never spoke of homosexuality) to oppress others. In fact, he would condemn the practice. This country is not a theocracy - yet. If it ever becomes one, the great experiment in constitutional democracy will have failed, despite all of our rhetoric to the contrary. We will be no better than Iran or any other theocracy. There is a petition on FofF's website that asks citizens to sign that opposes hate crime protection for gays. Apparently, they believe that because gays exhibit sexual behavior that they mistakenly believe is sinful, they should be subject to beatings and murders simply because they're gay. How is that not furthering and promoting hate?

http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000004535.cfm

Focus Launches Petition Drive to Stop 'Hate-Crimes' Bill

Jehovah's Witnesses don't participate in attempting to use the federal government as device to control the personal lives of others that is why they're not on the hit list of those opposed to religious organizations pressing for a national theocracy.

39

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 06-06-10 WT Study (YOUNG PEOPLE) TEST PLEASE FORGIVE ME

by blondie in

jw
friends

young people strengthen your desire to serve jehovah.

what invitation was extended to children in the christian congregation?

serve god or the wts?.

alice.in.wonderland

"It is downright sickening...these poor kids, not having a chance to think for themselves, to make a decent life for themselves...just being brain-washed perpetually with such nonsense. And it is all they know, so they accept it blindly. And it's written so childishly yet condescendingly."

The difference between Jehovah's Witnesses and influential organizations like FOTF and similar organizations is they don't attempt to divulge their teachings into public schools systems and in effect indoctrinate other people's children with their ideas.

http://www.focusonthefamily.com/

http://www.newsweek.com/2009/10/26/the-future-of-abstinence.html

The Future of Abstinence

It's been a mainstay of sex ed for more than a decade. Now, as the Obama administration cuts off federal funding, the movement scrambles for money, determined to continue its mission.

For as long as anyone can remember, McLennan County has been abstinence country. Nestled in the heart of Bible-Belt Texas, it's the kind of place where the local newspaper prints "In God We Trust" on the front page of every edition. "We're a very conservative community," says Jan Hungate, an assistant superintendent for the West Independent School District. So when the McLennan County Collaborative Abstinence Program (MCCAP) came to her a little more than a decade ago, offering an abstinence-only sex education program, she says, "It was the answer to our prayers. It was exactly the way we wanted to go." For years, each school was responsible for developing their own curriculum. Armed with the federal government's new abstinence-only grants, MCCAP offered to do the heavy lifting for free. They taught kids proper dating behavior, encouraged female students to think about their wedding days and why their virginity would matter then. In 2006 MCCAP had a $1 million budget, all from government grants, which they used to educate 6,000 to 7,000 students.

But many of the abstinence advocates NEWSWEEK talked to thought such compromises were untenable, that they could not teach students to remain abstinent until marriage while demonstrating how to use condoms. "If the funding is for a different worldview, one that says you should give condoms to kids, that's not my belief system," says Unruh. "I think it's very harmful." She and others say it's a question of morals and values, which is not an area for compromise. "Our program indicates that sex is more than physical. It's emotional. There's a lot of different aspects," says Scott Phelps, who directs A&M Partnership, an Illinois-based provider of abstinence-only curriculums. The group has a federal grant that expires in 2013. "If I'm teaching all of that, and then I'm teaching contraception, what is contraception going to do for all those consequences? It would be sort of nonsensical."

33

What I don't get is how JWs can't see how their ideas paint God to be a terrorist

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

me - "whatcha doin?".

jw - "preaching to "save lives"?".

me - "who's gonna do the killing?".

alice.in.wonderland

This person made a similar analogy. Not that JWs can't see how their ideas paint God to be a terrorist, but how the god of the bible must be satan!

The god of the bible must be satan!

Hello,

After reading the bible, I concluded that the god of the bible has to be satan (if you believe in that kind of nonsense). A loving, caring, all-knowing god would not have set up this type of nutty, wasteful, hurtful, and silly type of belief system for his "children".

- What kind of god creates the devil?

- What kind of god creates a place called hell, and threatens to send you to it?

- What kind of god creates us broken, and then commands us to fix ourselves?

- What kind of god drowns 99.9% of life on earth in a flood, just to start over?

- What kind of god kills the first born of the Egyptians (re: story of moses)?

- What kind of god makes horrible wagers on you and your loved ones (re: story of job)?

- What kind of god hides himself from his "children" (that is an example of a bad father)?

- What kind of god makes a path for his "children", that is narrow, thus ensuring many will stray and go to hell?

- What kind of god sets up a belief system that intelligent people can not usually believe?

- What kind of god would value child-like faith, and not reason or logic - like adults think?

There are so many more examples, but that is enough to prove my point (even if there was a god, as written in the bible, why would you want to worship and follow some kind of crazy, mixed-up, evil monster?).

There is only one being in the bible that would set up this type of crazy, terrible world, and that is the devil. If you have come to another conclusion, then I submit that you have either not read the bible, cannot understand what you read, or you have had your critical thinking skills compromised too long by an iron age belief system. The time to stop worshiping the devil/satan/god/jesus/holy ghost is now. Do not let this imaginary being rule and govern your life any longer. Once you learn to give up faith, you will understand how the world works, and you will not have to make any more excuses for god and your beliefs, and you will have the opportunity to lead a normal, productive, and free life.

43

Here is the Letter I am thinking of sending ,give me your input

by troubled mind in

jw
friends

attention to the elder body of the *******congregation of jehovahs witnesses .

criminal harassment is defined as "engag(ing) in intentional conduct which the actor [harasser] knows or has reason to know would cause the victim, under the circumstances, to feel frightened, threatened, oppressed, persecuted, or intimidated; and causes this reaction on the part of the victim.

609.749, subd.

alice.in.wonderland

Southmain, Houston, TX

43

Here is the Letter I am thinking of sending ,give me your input

by troubled mind in

jw
friends

attention to the elder body of the *******congregation of jehovahs witnesses .

criminal harassment is defined as "engag(ing) in intentional conduct which the actor [harasser] knows or has reason to know would cause the victim, under the circumstances, to feel frightened, threatened, oppressed, persecuted, or intimidated; and causes this reaction on the part of the victim.

609.749, subd.

alice.in.wonderland

"Attention to the Elder body of the *******Congregation Of Jehovah’s Witnesses"

The letter is just fine if the elders are harassing you. It would be nice if you could fill in the blank of what congregation this is, because the elders at my Hall don't go where they are not wanted.

Someone told me this at this website here so I don't go there anymore:
http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/chronology/607-bce-the-bible-or-the-formula.html#comments#comment-2825

"I wish you would get off this site cause the only thing you may succeed in is drivin' folks crazy cause you sure won't drag us back to the Kingdom Hall."

23

How are current jw's told to feel about vampires

by loosie in

i haven't attened a meeting in 5 years.

i was wondering what the wtbts has to say about the popularity of vampires we see currently in pop culture.

are they saying its evil and from satan?.

alice.in.wonderland

"Yes Vampires are fictional, but so are smurfs and the JW's had strong opinions about those."

Some Witnesses think Led Zeppelin's – Stairway to Heaven contains a spiritistic message, but not me. Neither the Smurfs or Stairway to Heaven can be found in any literature published by Jehovah's Witnesses so I don't pay any mind to the nonsensical rumors of some.