Posts by Jourles

38

Do you sense the need to defeat or destroy the Watchtower lessening? I do.

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

despite all the shunning crap - or perhaps because of it - i feel less inclined to take positive action against the watchtower these days.

perhaps it's just a temporary malaise or maybe it's that the organisation i looked up to for so long now seems small, petty and trivial and frankly i just don't want to waste my time and energy on it.. what do you think..

Jourles

Perhaps it's just a temporary malaise or maybe it's that the organisation I looked up to for so long now seems small, petty and trivial and frankly I just don't want to waste my time and energy on it.

I guess for some people, it could be a grudge that will never go away. For others like myself, when you still have your entire family involved in it, those nasty odors will always be around. I would rather do *something* about it rather than kick back and take it up the @ss from my relatives. If they bring something up, they started it. They better be prepared for the whirlwind.

43

Is the watchtower in the red or planning for something ?

by 5go in

it does but doesn't seem to be in trouble monetarialy.. what is going on.

are they ok but seeing the writing on the wall with lawsuit or something else.. or, are they broke and just hiding it..

Jourles

Not to mention that by paying taxes it would have created a nightmare of unimaginable proportions from the kh's to bethel just in paperwork alone. I cannot begin to fathom how the WTS could have untangled that mess. They would had to have had an accountant in every hall.

That CA supreme court case screwed them big time. Probably more so than any other lawsuit could ever do.

49

What were your reasons for becoming a JW?

by Narkissos in

jw
friends

reasons, not excuses -- even valid ones (like, "i was ignorant, depressed, fooled").. yours in the sense that you can still own (to) them -- even though you now know the "answer" was wrong.. this obviously applies to those who became jws -- hence mostly not born-in, although some of the latter might admit to having chosen the jw way for themselves at a certain stage of their childhood or teenage years.. this question is triggered by a previous conversation with purplesofa on another thread:.

i think most of us that came in and not born in were searching.

our hearts were pure in our search.

Jourles

Born in, so I didn't have much of a choice in the matter. But my dumb ass decided it would be best to wait until I was 18 "to make sure of all things." x1,000

11

The 144,000 ... is it correct to say that they are "saved" in JW doctrine

by kwintestal in

reading 'the god delusion', dawkins says on page 258:.

hartung draws attention to the two verses in revelation where the number of those 'sealed' (which some sects such as the jehovah's witnesses, interpret to mean 'saved') is limited to 144,000.. i would not myself used the word 'saved', i'm not sure exactly sure what word i would have used because i don't think the jw's beliefs regarding the 144,000 can be summed up with one word.

kwin.

Jourles

I have always thought of it as "predetermined" more than "saved."

93

Society's claim of Matt. 24:14 being fulfilled - What it could really mean

by Jourles in

i've had this thought for quite a while and wonder if fits with the recent talk about the wts claiming that matt.

24:14 has been fulfilled.

my thought was this --- in the wake of the recent cutbacks at bethel, scaling back of literature, and other cost cutting measures, could the wts be preparing the r&f for the complete or massive reduction of literature that would normally be placed with "householders?

Jourles

Have they completely run out of ideas?

Is that even possible?

93

Society's claim of Matt. 24:14 being fulfilled - What it could really mean

by Jourles in

i've had this thought for quite a while and wonder if fits with the recent talk about the wts claiming that matt.

24:14 has been fulfilled.

my thought was this --- in the wake of the recent cutbacks at bethel, scaling back of literature, and other cost cutting measures, could the wts be preparing the r&f for the complete or massive reduction of literature that would normally be placed with "householders?

Jourles

A 'Big Change' has been rumoured for quite a few months.

If this isn't the mother of all big announcements, I don't know what would be! The False Religion tract was nothing. Claiming that the preaching work has ended(as the brother from bethel plainly said), would be the biggest news since the donation arrangement. (I would say the generation change personally, but half the jw's didn't get that one so it doesn't count)

43

Is the watchtower in the red or planning for something ?

by 5go in

it does but doesn't seem to be in trouble monetarialy.. what is going on.

are they ok but seeing the writing on the wall with lawsuit or something else.. or, are they broke and just hiding it..

Jourles

Imagine that you still have a job but you net only $3,000 a month but you have $3,500 to pay out. You might have a savings account but eventually that dries up. You might even borrow against property but eventually the piper has to be paid. There are only 2 good ways to handle this, lower your payouts or increase your income.

This is exactly what is happening to the WTS. If the cutbacks on literature does not stop the bleed, the next item we will see is kh's being sold and congregations being consolidated/merged together. I have a feeling that this will come a lot sooner than we think.

93

Society's claim of Matt. 24:14 being fulfilled - What it could really mean

by Jourles in

i've had this thought for quite a while and wonder if fits with the recent talk about the wts claiming that matt.

24:14 has been fulfilled.

my thought was this --- in the wake of the recent cutbacks at bethel, scaling back of literature, and other cost cutting measures, could the wts be preparing the r&f for the complete or massive reduction of literature that would normally be placed with "householders?

Jourles

Let’s not forget, it’s not the society saying this its just one speaker!!

Without going back and checking again, I believe both talks that have been posted here recently were from assemblies and at least one of them was given by a "Bethel" speaker and the other by a CO or DO. As Gill pointed out, ALL talks given at the assemblies are manuscripts. These are created at Bethel.

As far as not believing this until it is in print, I agree. But, it has that certain feel about it - one that is used to "prep" the r&f for upcoming "new light." It reminds me closely of how they are already prepping the r&f for a change in doctrine to allow "the other sheep" to assume GB positions.(don't ask me what class they were!) But the way I see it in the end, any new doctrine related to the ministry will have a direct impact on the way they will continue to carry on business. That is, afterall, where most of their money gets spent on.

I don't have the latest numbers, but from two years ago, it took over a 1k hours to produce one convert. This figure jumps exponentially when you take into account children of jw's getting baptized. Then ask yourself, how many WT's and Awakes does your average jw give away at the door (or laundromats) without asking for a donation during that 1k+ hour block of time? How much money is the WTS losing because of this?

Looking at this possible end of the preaching campaign from a business perspective, it is a good plan. As some have already mentioned, this shift in procedure can really go either way. They can stop the preaching work altogether, or keep on doing it, but using a cheaper method such as distributing tracts. If they stop it, they do lose that one "verifiable" control over the r&f --- timecards. So would they come up with an alternative? How about just using informal witnessing? There are many possibilities here.

I guess we'll see what happens in a few years.

93

Society's claim of Matt. 24:14 being fulfilled - What it could really mean

by Jourles in

i've had this thought for quite a while and wonder if fits with the recent talk about the wts claiming that matt.

24:14 has been fulfilled.

my thought was this --- in the wake of the recent cutbacks at bethel, scaling back of literature, and other cost cutting measures, could the wts be preparing the r&f for the complete or massive reduction of literature that would normally be placed with "householders?

Jourles

Regarding electronic distribution, maybe we should bump this thread.

93

Society's claim of Matt. 24:14 being fulfilled - What it could really mean

by Jourles in

i've had this thought for quite a while and wonder if fits with the recent talk about the wts claiming that matt.

24:14 has been fulfilled.

my thought was this --- in the wake of the recent cutbacks at bethel, scaling back of literature, and other cost cutting measures, could the wts be preparing the r&f for the complete or massive reduction of literature that would normally be placed with "householders?

Jourles

I've had this thought for quite a while and wonder if fits with the recent talk about the WTS claiming that Matt. 24:14 has been fulfilled. My thought was this --- In the wake of the recent cutbacks at Bethel, scaling back of literature, and other cost cutting measures, could the WTS be preparing the r&f for the complete or massive reduction of literature that would normally be placed with "householders?" As we all know, the WTS is bleeding red ink. Everything they have done over the last several years points to this fact. In order for them to survive, they must reduce expenditures while at the same time keeping roughly the same amount of cash flow coming in. By eliminating all of the WT's printed over a count of ~15 million, this number would just cover the amount of publishers and their families and studies. They could do away with the Awake altogether. Other literature items could be scaled back to just cover the publishers and family.

I remember a few years ago trying to guess what steps the WTS would take to cut back on expenses(scaling back the Awake to once a month!). Applying Matt. 24:14 was genius. I never even thought of that route. What a great way to eliminate a wasteful printing program. Tie it into bible prophecy - the r&f will easily fall for that excuse. Plus, it covers over the fact that they are getting killed with their expenses. The jdubs will never know what is really going on. They will simply get all fired up that the work is ending and armageddon is sooo close now! I wouldn't be surprised if they just used tracts out in service, if they continue to go out in service. I imagine that there will still be some sort of field activity to qualify brothers for work and to keep tabs on the r&f's "faith meter."

So, what do you think? Plausible? Or could there be another reason for these talks? Remember, how could these talks be tied to money? Answer that question, and I think we'll find where they are heading.