by kwintestal 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Reading 'The God Delusion', Dawkins says on page 258:
Hartung draws attention to the two verses in Revelation where the number of those 'sealed' (which some sects such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, interpret to mean 'saved') is limited to 144,000.
I would not myself used the word 'saved', I'm not sure exactly sure what word I would have used because I don't think the JW's beliefs regarding the 144,000 can be summed up with one word. What would you say?
Kwin
Well, no, I wouldn't expect a raving atheist like Dawkins to have much of a handle at all on Watchtower doctrine.
I believe the Society's line is that the 'sealing' is when they are anointed. They are only 'declared righteous' at that stage, not saved, having received a token in advance of their heavenly calling.
No,It is not correct to say they are "saved' in JW doctrine. I was in that cult for 33 years [sure hate to admit that] and what they believe is they can fall away and be replaced and they will be destroyed.
Direct from the platform of the Watchtower Society in 2001:
Circuit Overseer Gus M. said that they are "In a Saved Condition."
Yep, ya gotta love the Watchtower Spin Doctors.
Honesty, Thanks for the update. Man I never knew they changed that. Hope they keep it up. Maybe a few more will wake up.
Saved Condition? What's that? Does the "Condition" part refer to a state similar to being "Saved" without actually being "Saved?" So if the conditional part of "Saved Condition" is removed, does that mean that person is no longer "Saved?"
My head hurts...
Well, kwintestal, the use of the word "saved" in this instance would be understood by most readers with a Christian background to mean that the 144,000 would go to heaven, which is what the WTS doctrine teaches.
I doubt that Dawkins has either the time or the inclination to go into a lengthy explanation of what JW doctrine on the matter of the 144,000 and the possibility that some can lose their spot in the salvation food chain. To him, it's all part of the delusion of belief in god.
The earlier post on being "declared righteous" is on the right track in regards to the 144,000 and the concept of being "saved." You will find that the WTS almost never mentions "saved" and the 144,000 is the same paragraph in the sense that other religions use "saved." Look also for the concept about being made "perfect" prior to their death and resurrection to heaven. While the other sheep are also spoken of by the WTS as needed to be "declared righteous" that does not happen until the end of the 1,000 year reign and after the pass the "final test." Use the WT-CD for research...it is quite a convoluted doctrine.
Blondie
Always thought the Society used Rev. 2:10 to show they had to prove theirself faithful to death.
I have always thought of it as "predetermined" more than "saved."
