Posts by traveb

78

Do you sense that the Watchtower will implode?

by AK - Jeff in

since leaving the organization 8 years ago, there have been more significant changes in the actual, physical activities of the organization than occurred in all the 40 plus years i was 'in'.

bethel closings.

bethel layoffs.

traveb

I think the WTS will be okay. They're in the middle of a reorganization right now due to the decline of paper literature and donations, but they'll adjust. They should be able to survive off real estate investments and whatever their future donation stream is.

My prediction is that once tablets are ubiquitous and cheap enough most publishers will transition to digital publications. This will save the WTS a ton of money. Imagine how expensive it is to print and ship literature around the world. Heck, the new Amazon tablet just announced will be $199.

Selling magazines door-to-door is also becoming archaic (not to mention expensive), so perhaps they will encourage publishers to focus on just using the Bible and a tract that points people to the official website if they want to download magazines or get more information. Most people do that now anyways so this should be an easy transition.

The only way I see an implosion is if there some sort of huge scandal that gets a lot of press. It would have to involve high-ranking WTS officials or GB members and be something really outrageous, like a child porn ring, a Bernie Madoff-sized ponzi scheme, or something crazy like that.

27

City Overseers discontinued immediately 9/16/11

by Gayle in

letter dated 09/16/11 to all boes about city overseers being discontinued effective immediately.. this is from a very reliable jw anonymous source.. .

traveb

My understanding is that since subscriptions were discontinued, the main duty of city overseers was to coordinate relief efforts in case of a disaster.

71

Overlapping generation segment on the new Circuit Assembly program

by traveb in

jw
friends

so there i was at the circuit assembly sunday morning with my eyes glazed over as usual when all of a sudden, bam!

a demo with two brothers talking about the new overlapping generation teaching.

the reason it took me by surprise was because it occured during the second talk of the sunday morning symposium, "sanctify god's name by your speech".

traveb

Thanks for the link, Wannabefree. It sounds a little different from the demo I saw but the major talking points are the same.

What surprised me so much was that they rarely, if ever, talk about core doctrines or teachings at the 1 and 2-day assemblies. Usually the talks and skits cover life issues, like family stuff, young people, materialism, etc. There's always a talk encouraging full-time service. Typically the vibe I get from these assemblies is that the speakers are just trying to encourage the brothers and help them with day-to-day problems. Normally core doctrines, prophecies, and "new light" are saved for the district conventions.

Regarding assembly demos, my impression (from talking with the actual speakers) is that they are not scripted. The speakers are given a rough outline and have to write out the actual dialog. Of course they are always rehearsed in front of the CO and DO so nothing makes it to the stage without being vetted first.

71

Overlapping generation segment on the new Circuit Assembly program

by traveb in

jw
friends

so there i was at the circuit assembly sunday morning with my eyes glazed over as usual when all of a sudden, bam!

a demo with two brothers talking about the new overlapping generation teaching.

the reason it took me by surprise was because it occured during the second talk of the sunday morning symposium, "sanctify god's name by your speech".

traveb

So there I was at the Circuit Assembly Sunday morning with my eyes glazed over as usual when all of a sudden, bam! A demo with two brothers talking about the new overlapping generation teaching. The reason it took me by surprise was because it occured during the second talk of the Sunday morning symposium, "Sanctify God's Name by Your Speech". I'm not sure how they shoehorned this topic into this particular talk but there you go.

Anyway, the way the demo goes is a brother comes up to another brother and starts complaining about the new understanding of the word generation. He says something to the effect that the meaning of the word "changes every year" and now he "doesn't know what to believe". The other brother agrees with him saying that he and his wife found it difficult to understand but then they reviewed their convention notes and now everything is crystal clear. So he then reviews his notes with Brother Complainer and quotes almost verbatim the info given at the district convention. I chuckled when he got to the part, "Jesus evidently meant...".

I found this demo interesting. Is the GB getting enough negative feedback on this new teaching where they feel the need to go over again at the Circuit Assembly? I didn't get any audio so if someone is going soon to this assembly this would be a good part to record.

33

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-25-2011 WT Study (ENTER REST)

by blondie in

jw
friends

however, love for god and for his.

our love for god and his dear son = is of no value unless we are part of the human/earthly organization, the wts.

how many scriptures are actually read and applied at a meeting?

traveb

Not sure if anyone else saw this, but in these last two study articles I noticed a couple of buzzword phrases, "unfolding purpose" and "advancing purpose". They are used multiple times in each article and appear to be interchangable. I think I've seen "unfolding purpose" before but "advancing purpose" seems new. Anyone else notice this?

22

New court docs for Menlo Park KH scandal

by Juan Viejo2 in

i've been fighting computer problems for over a week, but i finally got a new article up at ex-jw.com about the status of the court case in san francisco.. the plaintiffs will be going to court this week and possibly again in ten days.

the big issue is the bank account statements and signature files.

plaintiffs claim that defendants opened up unauthorized bank accounts and allegedly forged the then current coboe / ceo's signature.

traveb

traveb - when did Koehler get transfered? Is this recent, or was this a couple of years back?

I was told it just happened as of the new service year starting today, part of the normal rotation of COs. I assume his Napa assignment will be just for one year then he'll rotate again in 2012 when all the COs start rotating at the same time.

Again, I'm not in the same circuit as Menlo Park so hopefully someone in that circuit can confirm.

22

New court docs for Menlo Park KH scandal

by Juan Viejo2 in

i've been fighting computer problems for over a week, but i finally got a new article up at ex-jw.com about the status of the court case in san francisco.. the plaintiffs will be going to court this week and possibly again in ten days.

the big issue is the bank account statements and signature files.

plaintiffs claim that defendants opened up unauthorized bank accounts and allegedly forged the then current coboe / ceo's signature.

traveb

Thank you so much for keeping us updated on the case. I live nearby but am in a different circuit so I don't know anything about this CO Koehler. If that Navy SEAL thing turns out to be true that would be hilarious! I do know that he got rotated to the Napa circuit.

75

Elder body removed Watchtower letter

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

elder body removed watchtower letter.

an elder body was removed last year in california.

most folks have never seen a watchtower letter breaking this news.

traveb

Thanks for posting this. I live in the area (Silicon Valley) but hadn't heard about it until I saw this post. I actually recognize the names of some of the elders who were deleted, I think they have given talks in my congregation before.

I skimmed the Court documents and agree with the summaries presented in this thread. It seems the trouble started when the CO wanted to merge the two congregations (Menlo Park & South Redwood City) and the elder body declined. This of course pissed off the CO who then got the DO and Branch involved.

This really goes to show how little control the local elder bodies ultimately have. The WTS likes to pretend when it's convenient that local elders are "independent agents" and that they're not responsible when elders do something wrong (like shielding child molesters). This case proves that's defintely not true. The CO, DO, and Branch pull all the strings. I feel really bad for sincere elders who are just trying to do what's best for the people in their congregation.

Regarding these two congregations being merged, I think this is also an interesting topic. "Merge" is just a nicer way of saying that a congregation is being dissolved due to low numbers. I don't know about other areas, but many of the English congregations around here have lost a lot of publishers. I can think of 7-8 congregations off the top of my head in the immediate area that have been dissolved in the last 10-15 years.

149

"Overlapping generation" explanation - TRANSCRIBED EXTRACT from Friday's talk (DC 2011-12)

by AnnOMaly in

i thought this would be easier to examine if written down:.

god's kingdom will soon come.

so we know that god's kingdom will soon come.. .

traveb

I know a lot of JW's were happy with it but did it make sense to you? How so?

Well to clarify, I wasn't trying to say that it made complete sense, but it seemed more logical then how generation is defined now. I'm referring specifically to how generation used to be defined as a group of contemporary people who live during a certain period of time. Basically, they got away from linking "this generation" to 1914 which removed a sense of urgency from many JW's which was the point I was trying to make.

Now, they have this new overlap theory which is designed to whip people into a frenzy again. Pre-1995, the thinking was, "Oh wow, look at how old the annointed generation is. The end can come at any time!" Now, the thinking is, "Oh wow, look at how old Group #2 of the annointed generation is. The end can come at any time!"

In the short term I think this will be good for the WTS, in that it will boost numbers. Perhaps they're hoping they can replicate the growth rates from the 80's and early 90's. It's my opinion that people secretly love being told dates, otherwise motivation dries up. Of course, once Phase #2 of the annointed all die off, then they'll have to backpedal yet again. But hey, that will be someone else's problem, right?

149

"Overlapping generation" explanation - TRANSCRIBED EXTRACT from Friday's talk (DC 2011-12)

by AnnOMaly in

i thought this would be easier to examine if written down:.

god's kingdom will soon come.

so we know that god's kingdom will soon come.. .

traveb

I'm actually suprised they trotted out this overlap nonsense again this year. I suppose it buys them a few more years until they have to redefine generation again. To be honest, their 1995-2008 era generation doctrine made more sense. Most publishers that I've talked to were satisfied with that explanation but now it just seems like a confusing mess.

I'm guessing however that the governing body didn't care for the 1995-2008 generation teaching because it didn't scare the average JW enough. When you have a nebulous, ill-defined "generation" of people, publishers figured out they could sell less magazines and start going to college. I think the governing body realized they screwed up so they came out with this overlap doctrine which puts a definite endpoint, or cap, on the "system of things".

When there's no cap publishers start slacking.