Smiddy, it's true there are a lot of things that are fair to criticize about the U.S. legal system. But one thing that I think it's important to remember is that the U.S. system is far more friendly to private tort plaintiffs seeking money damages than just about anywhere else. I think it's safe to say that if these facts were replicated in any other major country, Ms. Conti would have never been awarded a judgment of millions of dollars against the WTS in the first place. One of the tradeoffs that plaintiffs give up in exchange for broad rights to sue is that defendants also have broad rights to appeal.
Chaserious
JoinedPosts by Chaserious
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19
What is new about the Candace Conti trial
by smiddy inwhats new in the latest developments.
smiddy.
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19
What is new about the Candace Conti trial
by smiddy inwhats new in the latest developments.
smiddy.
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Chaserious
There will probably be an opinion released by the California appeals court sometime in the Spring. That may or may not be a conclusion. It is possible that the losing party could appeal to be heard by the CA Supreme Court, who may or may not agree to hear the case. It's also possible that the appeals court could order a new trial, which could take some time to occur, and then THAT trial could be subject to appeal. Or the decision of this appeals court could be the last word. No one really knows right now.
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Candace Conti case updated
by gingerbread ini just received an email notification from the california appellate court hearing the wt appeal of the conti case:.
the case has been fully briefed.. the case is on the conference list.. the oral argument waiver notice has been sent.. .
i'm not well versed in the process or these terms.
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Chaserious
The chances are essentially zero that this case ever gets to SCOTUS. State Supreme Courts decide thousands and thousands of cases every year, almost all of which are important in some way and costly to litigate. Out of the thousands of losing parties, most of whom would want SCOTUS to hear their cases if possible, the number that SCOTUS takes is in the neighborhood of 15 per year. Most of the cases SCOTUS takes come up through the federal courts, not the state courts. The state cases that do get accepted tend to be important constitutional issues that state supreme courts have disagreed on.
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Candace Conti case updated
by gingerbread ini just received an email notification from the california appellate court hearing the wt appeal of the conti case:.
the case has been fully briefed.. the case is on the conference list.. the oral argument waiver notice has been sent.. .
i'm not well versed in the process or these terms.
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Chaserious
Fully briefed means that all of the written arguments that are allowed have now been submitted by both sides. It's a total of three briefs - the defendants filed an opening brief, Conti's lawyers filed an answer brief, and then the defendants filed a reply brief. Oral argument waiver just means the parties can voluntarily forego in-person argument before the appeals panel. It's not uncommon for parties in some cases to let the judges decide "on the papers" and have the court make a decision without oral argument, so the court tries to get parties to waive to lighten their argument calendar. The parties probably won't waive in this case.
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Education Double Standard
by Tech49 inthis is the kind of thing that really burns me.. .
wtbts holds out an extreme double standard in regards to education.
most, if not all, of you know how they feel about obtaining an education past high school (in the u.s.).
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Chaserious
Definitely a big double standard. There was a brother in my congregation years ago who actually had an engineering degree and became a JW when he was in his early-mid 20's not long after graduating college. He got married and he and his wife got recruited to move to Bethel. I got the sense they didn't really like it that much and Bethel really kissed their asses to get them to stay. He got appointed as a Bethel elder very quickly, they got a nice room with a great view, he got a corner office with a view of Manhattan, and the wife got taken off her cleaning job after a short time and got assigned to an easy office job. There has to be a real shortage of people with that kind of education thanks to their double standard. But this couple left after a few years anyway. I can't imagine how the rank and file Bethelites felt who didn't get all the amenities because they followed the WT counsel on education while the educated ones get the preferred treatment. You have to really be indocrinated to be able to swallow or ignore the double standard.
I gave up a full scholarship to stay in the WT as well. Of course, I wasn't allowed to move away to the school that offered it to me. Probably should have cut ties right then. As it turned out, I had to take night classes well into my mid-20s that I mostly paid for myself to get my BA. Even so, I count myself as happy and fortunate to have gotten out relatively early.
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What is the stand/view of the JWs regarding the Illuminati and conspiracy theory?
by UBM101 ini mean.... are the dubs pretty much supporters of the conspiracy theory (watching videos, researching etc) or do they avoid such materials/topics?
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Chaserious
If there is an illuminati conspiracy, why didn't Ray Franz out it? Wouldn't governing body members know about this alleged secret control? Or was his exit and expose all part of the conspiracy?
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Candice Conti
by zound inwatchtowers brief due today?.
can anyone explain to me how to get the briefs from the californian court website?
i need to direct a jw to the website to get the breifs but not really sure how to get them myself.. .
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Chaserious
144,001 is correct about the brief that's due this week. They probably won't have it for a few days at least. I meant that the two opening briefs have already been obtained by jwleaks and posted there. As for legal databases like Lexisnexis and Westlaw, I do have access to these but the Conti briefs did not get posted there, and usually will not be made available for state appeals cases. They typically will only put the eventual written opinion of the appeals court in the database. Sometimes they have the briefs available for federal appeals cases. Just didn't want anyone to waste their time trying to open an account for this.
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Candice Conti
by zound inwatchtowers brief due today?.
can anyone explain to me how to get the briefs from the californian court website?
i need to direct a jw to the website to get the breifs but not really sure how to get them myself.. .
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Chaserious
The briefs are not made publicly available online by the court. They are available online at the jwleaks site, and I believe AAWA also obtained and posted the Conti appeal brief.
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Reinstatement Hearing Secretly Recorded and on JWStruggle
by RayPublisher inokay people i have a new video that some of you may be interested in- i believe it is the only one of its kind online.
three elders meet with a young female that knows ttatt and is trying to get back into the jws for family reasons.
the audio also includes the three elders disagreeing and deliberating after she is dismissed from the room and then when they call her back in.
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Chaserious
Very interesting.. I listened to some of the recording. It seems that these three elders were somewhat sincere about trying to do their job in this case. Elder #1 is kind of a hardass. It is possible that he is very perceptive in figuring out that the person just wanted to get reinstated to see her family (which is true). However, I wouldn't give him that much credit. I think it's more likely that he just wanted to put the screws to her some more and make her suffer for a few more months since it was her second offense.
As an aside, if you have the resources, it might not be a bad idea to seek some advice on whether recording elders' deliberations could be problematic from a legal standpoint, especially if you plan to publish more of these should they become available.
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Is The WTS Building Beth Sarim 2 ?
by metatron ini continue to puzzle over the future direction the watchtower is taking.
it seems very strange.. let's review: they are selling everything off in brooklyn, raking in huge sums from that real estate and building heavily in a fairly isolated part of upstate ny.. why?.
it may be classified as a country club (legally).
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Chaserious
Transferring assets to avoid creditors or potential creditors is against the law
The first part is correct, but the second is not. It's perfectly legal to transfer assets if that transfer happens to have the effect of making the assets unavailable to unknown future creditors. Under fraudulent transfer law there has to be an intent to avoid a specific liability. By making transfers when the organization is in good financial condition, they stay out of constructive fraudulent transfer territory also. And even if transfers are determined to be fraudulent, there is a limited look back period, so after enough time passes even a fraudulent transfer can't be reached. Under bankruptcy law, preferential transfers can be recovered from a bankrupt even without meeting the above, but at most you can only go back one year. I'm not an expert on trusts, but I'm sure if they wanted to, they could move assets into some kind of asset-protection trusts outside of the U.S., or transfer assets to another Watchtower related corporation overseas and after a while, those assets couldn't be reached to satisfy U.S. judgments. (Or make it so expensive to reach that judgment creditors will settle for pennies on the dollar). As an example, it's not uncommon at all for doctors to make some of their assets hard to reach just in case there is a huge malpractice suit. You just can't do it after you commit the malpractice.
That said, I highly doubt asset protection is a significant factor. If the WTS were to face massive liability, the new branch land and buildings would still be available, as would all of the assembly halls and at least all domestic assets. I'm sure they aren't planning on that happening.