in reference to the comments that it should not just be the elders getting the working with children check in victoria, i just caught up with my mate who is still an elder and his 2 buddies (who were also elders), one who turned out to be the p/o (sorry, still stuck with the old lingo).
3 elders and a so called apostate, and yes we were all drinking beers, ok, i wasnt, that nz sav blnc was too good to pass up.... the direction from bethel is that all elders/ m/s's and pioneers in victoria have to get the wwc, so its not just for elders.. the deadline for all elders, ms's and pioneers to get this check passed a few weeks ago.
in my mates congo, there was still a few m/'s and pioneers who had not yet submitted their application yet as well as 1 elder.
What we are all hanging out for is a copy of that directive!
or is it one of these word of mouth by the CO things?
We've been told several times it was a letter read out at the meetings. As usual, very cloak-and-dagger, with the knowledge of the rationale restricted to tiny bunch of Bethel eite who may at some stage hint that they know but just can't talk about it. Which is fairly odd for a religion that has no clergy and in which all are equal ...
i have been hitting a brick wall trying to pry my boyfriend away from this stuff.
it just makes me cry that it's so obvious to me how wrong it is, and he's not even batting an eyelash.
he knows about all of the scandals, all of the false prophecies, the coverup of sexual predators, that elders tell abuse victims to stay with their spouses, that they dishonestly use sources, and he just doesn't care.
Books?
Jim Penton's Apocalypse Delayed
Heather & Gary Botting's The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses
Tony Wills' A People For His Name
or, if he's really interested in looking at where all the dates are numbers in the complex JW set of beliefs come from, Robert Crompton's Counting the Days to Armageddon.
But the fact is, no book is going to change his mind if he want to stay. He'll ignore the bad, because he's convinced it's God's organisation and he'll die without it.
religion allows us to know the "god of religion".. .
the unabridged gospel/bissar/injeel allows us to know the "god of abraham".. .
know = be intimate with (spiritual union or intercourse).
The term comes from what is evidently a sloppy translation. No other Bible version has such a wording. When it has suited them, they have trotted the phrase out in the Watchtower, supposedly as a quote from the BIble but clearly meant as a term of denigration for anyone who dares to disagree with them.
The context of the scripture is a condemnation of Christians who just want to argue doctrinal issues to the point of absurdity, missing the rel message. The WT applies it to anyone who just disputes their often tortured view of scripture. Often it's they who wear people out examining, and distorting words to suit their own ends: what is a generation? what does it mean to abstain from blood? Does "porneia" include oral contact? what does it mean to stand before the throne?
do you remember the magazine and the author of this magazine, any old timers know who the backers were?
i was five years old, when the old man was the editor or author of this religious magazine.
did you ever talk to any of the followers of this movement?
Growing up in New Zealand, my brother and I used to listen to "The World Tomorrow", broadcast as 30-minute shows on one of the Auckland radio stations at night in the mid to late 1970s. It was either Herbert W. Armstrong or his son Garner Ted Armstrong, who did the talks, pointing to the fulfilment of Bible prophecy. They offered copies of The Plain Truth to anyone who wrote and asked for it, so we did, and we used to then send away for glossy books that dealt with subjects such as famine and pollution, showing how these things were a sign that the end was nigh.
They then set off for a series of tours of New Zealand, hiring halls to give talks. We were very convinced, though we didn't take it any further .... it's quite likely it laid the groundwork for my acceptance of the JW's message when they turned up on my door some years later. I remember being told years ago that Herbert had left the JWs decades earlier and formed his own religion with variants of the JW message, and it's true there were similarities, though it seems the WCG seemed to have its own leadership dramas at some point.
1) on saturday's last talk by the do, he made a cool illustration.
he said "imagine my wife found a picture of another woman in my wallet.
and when she approaches my about it, i say 'oh, thats only because she reminds me of you.
Then the good brother cuts him off and exclaims "Are you saying the faithful slave is delaying Armageddon?"
It's actually a straw man argument, in which someone raises a superficially similar proposition and then argues against that, without actually addressing the initial argument.
The bad brother who complained, "When are these last days going to end? I mean, its been over a hundred years and our understanding keeps on changing, and changing, and changing..." is asking a valid question, and a demonstration in which a good brother accuses him of disloyalty is yet another demonstration of crude mind control techniques. In short, it is wrong to ask questions that contain implied criticism of the organisation. Any JW who asks a question that questions the beliefs or practises as laid down by the Governing Body is accused of disloyalty, thus intimidating them into silent, unquestioning submission.
I just wonder how many in the audience heard the bad brother's question and thought to themselves, "Fair point!" and were, like Silent Scream, dismayed to hear the response, which doesn't address the quite sincere question at all.
a very reliable friend told me this: the bro was commenting on what was "unacceptable" conduct in the bedroom between married persons.
needless to say, he had everyone's attention.
he went on to say "we must avoid perversions such as oral and annual sex.
"Just don't think about it." Priceless.
"The kingdom smile." Yeesh. I saw a few of them on the Stepford Wives when I visited Bethel. They walked, talked and smiled like robots.
One of my favorites:
One sister in a book study, commenting on 1 John 2:2 ("...sacrifice for our sins, not for ours only but also for the whole world's") pointed out, "See, it says 'worlds', so there are more worlds out there and Jehovah is forgiving sins for the people on them as well."
i'm a long-time lurker (and hopefully successful fader) who finally took the jump and registered on jwd.
thank you all for the great information over the years!.
as you can tell by my username, i'm a big weezer fan.
Definitely! There was a Brisbane (Queensland) indie rock band in the '80s who stole a WTS illustration for a single cover and I wish I'd bought it at the time. It was a clear steal.
that the runners in a race all run, but only.
in the christian race, all who finish win that.
you do to finish and thus win that race?.
Thanks, Blondie.
Sadly, some have slowed down, given out, or even fallen along the way.
I left the religion afer 22 years in it, but I certainly don't see it as "falling" or "giving out". I came to the realisation that witnessing was a futile exercise that was dragging me down and taking up too much of my time for the benefit of no one, so I stopped. I also awoke to the lies of the religion and discovered the promises of a new world, the threat of Armageddon and the claim that the JWs were God's organisation were all a hollow shell, supported by nothing. I also realised that I liked very few of the people I was mixing with.
Leaving the JWs was one of the best decisions of my life. I didn't give out or fall. I woke up and reclaimed my life.
the point was made at the assembly today, that we have to 'prove' our love for jehovah to him.
as i sat there, bored, this thought struck me as odd.
since jehovah is supposed to be able to read 'hearts', why do we as humans, have to prove anything to him, since he already knows us down to our kidneys and would know if we loved him or not.
Still, it's not a bad idea. I'm contemplating telling my wife she should prove her love to me more often. Mowing the lawn, cooking better meals, fetching me beers, not expecting me to share in the housework ... I mean, I think she loves me, but wouldn't it be better to prove it with lots of hard work she'd hate?
........... holy spirit or any " fruitages of the spirit " like love, kindness, mildness, meekness , etc.
shown by men considered for elder or ms positions.
qualities or true positive character traits are not that important to the wt society in appointments of these men in jw congregations.. no, the real " qualifications " that a jw man needs to exhibit is being able to report 10 hours a month in knocking on people's doors offering wt and awake magazines !
Without trying to sound like a blowhard, I used to put a lot of thought into my talks and answers, in a way I thought would help people think about their faith. I tried to make talks interesting, and used to get frequent favorable comments about them afterwards. Until I started seriously slacking, I used to put a lot of effort into preparing for FS and RVs in order to try to teach people about what I then believed was Bible truth about the impending Armageddon.
Though I'd been an MS in previous congregations, the congo in which I ended up spending the last 13 years of my JW life never did appoint me as an MS. Reason: I didn't get enough hours. I usually got 8 or 9 a month, until a smartarse young elder told me if that was the best I could do, I might as well not bother. It was advice I eventually accepted.
One elder, who was keen to see me appointed, once told me: "We need to get you a Bible study so we can boost your hours." I'd thought "hours" in that context referred to the lead you were setting in the FS groups, but if I was spending another 10 hours a month in someone's home doing a Bible study, no one would have ever seen me "setting the lead" anyway.
I'd say Flipper's statement is correct. It was all about hours.
