Posts by wannabe

posted

16
7 Times 2520 Years - Nut Jobs Everywhere
by LostGeneration in
1. watchtower
2. bible
the wt isnt alone...i didn't realize how many nut jobs use this math to forward their prophetic agendas.

dates start all over the place and end up in around our time, give or take a few hundred years... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1c1ggls_enus360us363&q=7+times+2520+years&start=10&sa=n.

the wt doesn't even make page one on google with their 2520 theory.
wannabe

Why would the one who inaugaerated the New Covenant, point any to earthly Jerusalem as the one te experience this trampling? Since Heavenly New Jerusalemm, and Heavenly Mout Zion now took the spotlight? Wouldn't the Trampling by the Nations, begin right there in the first Century, by those who had broken away, and struck off on their own? The Oppressive wolves Paul mentioned that would rise and speak twisted things to draw away others to themselves? Jesus condemned earthly Jerusalem, and told them their house was abandoned to them, so why would he mean earthly Jerusalem was in question? That doesn't make any sense to me. Would it not now be the City of the living God in qeustion, heavenly NEW Jerusalem? Just a thought! Just interested!
4
A Proper view of the appointed times of the Nations!
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
a proper view of the appointed times of the nations!.

most today reading luke 21:24 draw the conclusion that ancient jerusalem is in question here.

of course that's a natural conclusion to draw, because it looks like jerusalem of old is in question, however this subject needs to be examined a little closer; because jerusalem of old is not in question here at all.. 24"and they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive into all the nations; and jerusalem shall be trodden down of [the] nations until [the] times of [the] nations be fulfilled.
wannabe

A Proper view of the Appointed Times of the Nations!
Most today reading Luke 21:24 draw the conclusion that ancient Jerusalem is in question here. Of course that's a natural conclusion to draw, because it looks like Jerusalem of old is in question, however this subject needs to be examined a little closer; because Jerusalem of old is not in question here at all.
24"And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of [the] nations until [the] times of [the] nations be fulfilled."{Luke 21:24 DT}
We know that it was Jesus himself who made this statement, so one must ask himself, why would the mediator of the New Covenant, concern himself with earthly Jerusalem, which was the City where the old Law Covenant was dispensed? Especially since he himself had condemned the Jews who worshipped at the Temple in that City, and foretold it's complete destruction?
Then too, by his precious Blood the New Covenant was established. There was an obvious change in the situation that existed under the old Law Covenant, from earthly Jerusalem, earthly Mount Zion now, it was Heavenly New Jerusalem, Heavenly Mount Zion. So, the positions of those two Cities had switched over from earthly to Heavenly. He had told them that their house was abandoned to them. {Revelation 14:1}
34 "This is why I am sending you prophets, sages, and scribes. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will flog in your synagogues and hound from town to town. 35 So all the righteous blood shed on the earth will be charged to you, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar.36 I assure you: All these things will come on this generation!
37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem! The city who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her. How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, yet you were not willing! 38 See, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will never see Me again until you say, Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!"{Matthew 23:34-39 HCSB}
The ancient City of Jerusalem was now out of the picture altogether. Heavenly New Jerusalem had come into being, replacing earthly Jerusalem altogether. Paul will explain what their approach to Jehovah was now:
18" For you have not come to what could be touched, to a blazing fire, to darkness, gloom, and storm, 19 to the blast of a trumpet, and the sound of words. (Those who heard it begged that not another word be spoken to them, 20 for they could not bear what was commanded: And if even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned! 21 And the appearance was so terrifying that Moses said, I am terrified and trembling. 22 Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God (the heavenly Jerusalem), to myriads of angels in festive gathering, 23 to the assembly of the firstborn whose names have been written in heaven, to God who is the judge of all, to the spirits of righteous people made perfect, 24 to Jesus (mediator of a new covenant and to the sprinkled blood, which says better things than the [blood] of Abel." {Hebrews 12:22-24 HCSB}
12 "The victor: I will make him a pillar in the sanctuary of My God, and he will never go out again. I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God—the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God—and My new name."{Revelation 3:12 HCSB}
2 "I also saw the Holy City, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband."{Revelation 21:2 HCSB}
10 "He then carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,"{Revelation 21:10 HCSB}
Now, rather than earthly Jerusalem, it was the "Holy City New Heavenly Jerusalem." This now was the "City of Truth," Jehovah's Throne." That this trampling was to be done on, and interestingly enough, this trampling began from right within the true Christian Congregation. As I will go on to show:
18 "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." {1 John 2:18,19
29 "I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them." {Acts 20:29,30 NIV}
1"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron."
{1 Timothy 4:1,2 NIV}
As Paul had said; this would take place after he left. These savage wolves would move right in and take over, influencing others to arise and distort the truth, even from among the true anointed class, to follow their course to draw away disciples after them. Abandoning the true faith, and take up these teachings of demons that came through hypocitical liars. By so doing trample on Jehovah's Throne City of Truth, as represented by the Twelve early Apostles. So, the appointed times of the Nations began right within the Christian Congregation, with these savage wolves, and from those who deviated from the truth of God's word, to follow those teachings of demons. No one can put a date on the beginning of those apostate workers. So, because of that, it cannot be known how long those times ran, only to say they are still running at this time, and did not end in 1914 as taught.
In Matthew 13:24-30-36-43 Jesus gave a Parable that foretold this very thing.The devil would oversow weeds in among the wheat, and , as it says, "while Men were Sleeping," this would take place. In other words there would be a long period of inactivity, when Jehovah would have no one on the earth to represent him, during which time period these weed like Christian's would be allowed to grow and flourish. All the while trampling on Jehovah's Throne City of Truth, with their doctrines of demons, and distortions of truth; and claims to represent the God of the Bible. Bringing nothing but reproach and shame on the grand name of Jehovah God. Thereby literally trampling on the Throne of Jehovah, and his New City of Truth; Heavenly New Jerusalem. The City of the Living God! {1 Chronicles 29:23} {Jeremiah 3:17} {Zechariah 8:3}
Paul had told us, After he left these savage wolves would appear, and gain, and hold control until the Christ actually took his Ruling authority as King of God's Kingdom. With none of the Apostles left to hold them in check, this apostate deviation of the truth, would have nothing to hamper their false teachings and beliefs, and would run roughshod over Jehovah's Throne City of Truth, Hevenly New Jerusalem; until the arrival of the Christ in Kinghdom Power, at which time those appointed times would end with the removal of satan, his demons, his Religous Woman and all of her religious adherents. Only when satan is chained and abyssed, his vast empire of false religion falls- all of the adherents of his vast empire of Babylon the Great is forever removed, can those appointed times of the Nations end. When that is done to completion, then, and only then, will the appointed times of the Nations end, with finality. {2 Corinthians 4:3,4} {Revelation 18:1-3;20:1-3- Matthew 25:41-46} Not until all that is done and over with, will they end.
This is a proper view of the appointed times of the Nations! Too bad the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses missed it, isn't it?
Once we get out of our minds what they have missed, and wipe out of our minds completely what they say about the appointed Times of the Nations ending in 1914, we will then begin to realize that earthly Jerusalem wasn't in question when Jesus stated what he did about the trampling on Jerusalem. With that out of our minds, simply ask ourselves, when did the trampling on Heavenly New Jerusalem begin?
17"At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of Jehovah; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of Jehovah, to Jerusalem; and they shall no more walk after the stubbornness of their evil heart."{Jeremiah 3:17 DT}
How can it be that Heavenly New Jerusalem is now called the Throne of Jehovah? The Psalmist will explain:
1 "Why are the nations so angry?
Why do they waste their time with futile plans?
2 The kings of the earth prepare for battle;the rulers plot together
against the Lord
and against his anointed one.3 "Let us break their chains," they cry,
"and free ourselves from slavery to God."
4 But the one who rules in heaven laughs.
The Lord scoffs at them.
5 Then in anger he rebukes them,
terrifying them with his fierce fury.
6 For the Lord declares, "I have placed my chosen king on the throne in Jerusalem, on my holy mountain." {Psalm 2:1-6 NLT}
21"The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne."{Revelation 3:21 ESV}
We see, that the Throne of Jehovah isn't occupied now solely by Jehovah alone, but has the Christ and his 144,000 associate King Priests seated right there with him. So, misuse any of the anointed Brothers of Christ while they walked this earth, constituted trampling on the Throne of Jehovah. Jesus nicely highlited that point at Matthew 25:40,45}
As for, now, why it was called the "City of Truth,"is evident from John 14:6 where Jesus tells us that he was "the way the Truth and the Life."
3"Thus saith Jehovah: I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem;and Jerusalem shall be called, The city of truth; and the mountain of Jehovah of hosts, The holy mountain.{Zechariah 8:3 DT}
Earthly Jerusalem trurned out to be a City of Liars and Murderers. So, desperately needed replacing, as it was.
As far as calculating a date for the start of this trampling on Heavenly New Jerusalem, I don't believe that can be even done; unless of course, the crucifiction of the Christ would be the starting point. They certainly trampled on him didn't they? Aside from that, no one knows how long it will run either, which blows the Governing Bodies interpretation out of the water. Who knows the Date for the Christ to take active Kingdom ruling Power? We'd have to know that date to know when the trampling will end. No one will ever know that particular date. {Matthew 24:36}
I think that is a proper view of the appointed times of the Nations! Let the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses toy with their time prophecy in Daniel. That toying, will, in the end, get them into plenty of hot water. I believe the Apostle John referred to that hot water, as the Lake of Fire, which, I imagine, is plenty hot enough for anyone. {Matthew 25:41} {Revelation 20:9,10} Wannabe
2
Did the Appointed Times of the Nations end in 1914?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
did the appointed times of the nations end in 1914?.

was it really to be true, that the christ was crowned king of god's kingdom, and took up his ruling authority in 1914, then it would be true the appointed times of the nations did end in 1914. the question, is, though, would he throw satan and his demons down to this earth at that time, then wait 96 years, before exercising that authority?

would they, now, not be the "throne of jehovah," the "city of truth?
wannabe

Did the Appointed times of the Nations end in 1914?
Was it really to be true, that the Christ was crowned King of God's Kingdom, and took up his ruling authority in 1914, then it would be true the appointed times of the Nations did end in 1914. The question, is, though, would he throw satan and his demons down to this earth at that time, then wait 96 years, before exercising that authority? Since satan attacks the seed of the Woman the moment he is thrown down, how many could we expect of the anointed Brothers of Christ to be left alive at this late date? Would it take satan 96 years to kill off every one of them? When this following statement was made in Luke 21:24, was it a reference to eartly Jerusalem? It reads:
24"and they shall fall by the mouth of the sword, and shall be led captive to all the nations, and Jerusalem shall be trodden down by nations, till the times of nations be fulfilled."{Luke 21:24 YLT}
At first reading, one would naturally conclude that this is talking about, the earthly City of Jerusalem as it stands today. The question is though, is that a correct conclusion to draw?
Is the Jerusaslem of today still the "Throne of Jehovah?" can it be called: "The City of Truth?" As Jerusalem of old was called? {Jeremiah 3:17} {Zechariah 8:3}
Is it not true that Jehovah cast that old City off, because of denial of his Son, and the New Covenant? Isn't that where the entire picture changed? From the old Law, covenant to the New covenant? Bringing now Heavenly New Jerusalem, and Heavenly Mount Zion into the picture? {Hebrews 12:22-24} {Revelation 14:1; 3:12;21:2,10}
Wouldn't the trampling now being done, be done on Heavenly new Jerusalem, Heavenly Mount Zion? Would they, now, not be the "Throne of Jehovah," the "City of Truth?" In actuality what was now being trampled on by the Nations? That being true, and since the Christ does not hold his authority as King as yet, that trampling has to still be in progress and will not end until the Christ does actually come to take Kingdom Power.
So, once again the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society is wrong again, because they say it ended in the year 1914, but that trampling is still, right at this very moment in time going on, and will continue to go on until the Christ is crowned King of God's Kingdom. That is the only thing that could bring it to an end! God's Kingdom, by his Christ! satan, the first liar, would have to be chained and abyssed, first. His Religious Woman on the back of the Beast, "Babylon the Great," would have to fall first. The first liar is still to this day 'god of this World.' His false Religious empire is still alive, well, and flourishing, even now. Those two things trample on the City of truth, satan being a liar, his religous Woman the teacher of his lies. The adherents of this satanic organization, encompass and permeate our globe spreading their religous lies. All of that must be removed until the trampling can end with definite finality.
Now, since it is true, that the Christ has not yet taken his authority as ruling King, that of necessity means the War in heaven has not been fought as yet. satan and his demons have not been thrown down to this earth as yet. The "Woe for the earth," John spoke about has not even begun as yet, which in turn means Matthew 24:7 has not been fulfilled as yet. "Nation against Nation and Kingdom against Kingdom," is still yet future. So, everything the Governing Body teaches about the year 1914 is incorrect. They quite clearly do not know what they are even talking about. Their Spirit Directed Organization, has been sadly misdirected. To the point they actually appear to be very stupid men, those of the Governing Body.
No! The appointed times of the Nations did not end in the year 1914 -- Only an absolute idiot would believe otherwise! Wannabe
6
Religious Christendom's Massive Blood-Guilt!
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
"{isaiah 57:20 niv}.

it was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.

" {matthew 23:33-35 niv}.
wannabe

Religious Chiristendom's Massive Blood-Guilt!
Before I delve into this subject too deeply, it does well to learn what this Sea is, the Prophet Daniel and the Apostle John are telling us about in their end time Prophecies.
20 "But the wicked are like the tossing sea,
which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud."{Isaiah 57:20 NIV}
Daniel and John will be telling us about ruling World Powers that have arisen out of the Sea of restless Mankind. In that they are said to cast up, mire and mud, we couldn't expect anything too good to arise from them, and, as yet, after thousands of years nothing good has come out of anyone of them, up to this point in time, nor should we expect anything ever will. John will next explain the reason for that.
1"And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast."{Revelation 13:1-3 NIV}
We see this Ten Horned Beast is given Power Throne and Great Authority by satan the devil, so absolutely nothing good could even be expected of these ruling Authorities. Only Mud and Mire! Things very unclean! As we read John's account of these ruling World Powers, we see John's account is in the reverse to Daniel's. The reason being, John is looking backwards in time, while Daniel, forward. None-the-less the are the exact same World Powers both are discussing. Looking now at Daniel's account, we read, as follows:
1 "In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying on his bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream.
2 Daniel said: "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. 3 Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.
4 "The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a man, and the heart of a man was given to it.
5 "And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, 'Get up and eat your fill of flesh!'
6 "After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule.
7 "After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns." {Daniel 7:1-7 NIV} We notice in Daniel's Vision, in his dream, the fourth and last World Power was quite different than all of the others, having as it does Ten Horns in association with it. That makes the difference. Daniel reveals these great Beasts are Four Kingdom's that will arise from the earth. The last one very Powerfull, terrifying, and frightening, because of uniting with these Ten Horns, pooling together their power, for one hour. {Revelation 17:12-14}
This will be the last one who goes off into destruction doing Battle with the Lamb. {Revelation 17:11}
"The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth."{Daniel 7:17NIV}
In order, Babylon represented the Lion! The Bear, Medo - Persia, the Leopard, Greece - The fourth and last one with theTen Horns, is, of course, what we have ruling at this time, which is Britton and America, represented by the two Feet of Daniels dream image. The Ten Toes would be the European, Asain, and African Nations, completing the entire Image of Daniel's Dream. {Daniel 2:31-35} {Daniel 2:38} Today, the Lion, Bear, Leopard, are represented by Iran, Iraq, and Syria/Lebanon - Not being a History Buff, I must rely on Worldly Scholars, for my information.
John next reveals something, that shows the reason, or at least one of them, perhaps the main one for the dirty appearance, the Prophet Isaiah described as 'mud and mire' being cast up by these wicked ruling authorities placed in position by satan the devil. Or rather by satan's dirty Woman, Babylon the Great; the Mother of all of his Children now residing on our earth today.
1"One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2 With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries."
3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5This title was written on her forehead:
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7Then the angel said to me: "Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come."{Revelation 17:1-8 NIV}
We notice, that right from the inception of this Scarlet Colored Beast this Woman John metions here, has been astride this Beast. The fact that it is mentioned as having Seven Heads, tells us she has been controling this Beast throughout all of the time period, it has been in existence. These seven heads, are a picture of all of the devil's ruling dynasties of Kings from Egypt right down until today. In control of the British American World Powers as well. Right down to the Ten Toes of Daniel's dream image. The European, Asian, African World Powers, included.
Something of great Interest John tells us about this Woman, is the following:
24 "In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints,
and of all who have been killed on the earth."{Revelation 18:24 NIV}
John reveals, this Woman is a Religious Woman, a murderer of Jehovah's Prophets and his Saints. So she's a Bloodguilty Religious Organization. As John will show us now how that comes to be:
6 "I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus." {Revelation 17:6 NIV} Because she's satan's Woman, she bears Children to the devil who are all murderous liars like their Father the devil.
Even worse, she's held accountable for all the righteous blood, spilled on earth, not only of Jehovah's righteous ones. Because they are all Liars, those who bear true Testomy to Jesus, are attacked at every opportunity, because they expose this Woman's Children for the liars that they are, and show them up to be what they are; Children of satan the devil. So, Jehovah's Faithful ones are hated by this Woman and her Children, as foretold they would be. {Genesis 3:15}
Jesus showed us all, how it was that it was a Religious Organization by these following words, spoken to those early persecuting Jews, in his time period:
33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you [and your kind] will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar." {Matthew 23:33-35 NIV}
The death of Jesus, was a prime example of their murderous hatred, for the seed of the Heavenly Woman, because they murdered the principle, or main seed of the heavenly Woman. {Matthew 27:45-50} {Acts 3:14,15} {Galations 3:16} Those early Jews, could not stand to listen to the truth the Apostle Stephen was speaking, they covered their ears, gnashed their teeth, and rushed upon him with one accord to stone him to death. {Acts 7:54-60} {John 8:42-47}
Both Jesus and John said this Woman was responsible for all the righteous blood spilled on earth; so massive Blood-guilt lies on Religious Christendom. Jehovah will exact payment for all of that Blood spilling. Throw in the 100 Million Bodies laid in their graves during the two blood-spilling Wars of our Century since 1914- Add to that, the two Japanese Cities that were obliterated by Two Atom Bombs- Blood-Spilling on a scale Jehovah just cannot, and will not, just passively overlook- He will hold them all accountable for those slaughters supposedly in his name.
In size and scope this Religious Organization of satan's, represented by his Woman on the back of the Beast encompasses and permeates our entire World, misleading the entire inhabited earth, every Mainline Religion on this earth, are Children of this Woman who rides this Beast. As such, they are all Children of the devil, who seek to do the desires of their Father by carrying on their religious falsehoods, as their true Father would. Teachings such as the Trinity! The Immortal Soul! The Hell-Fire Doctrine! All presumptuously pushing ahead making high and lofty claims about self chosen appointments that do not belong to any of them. Choosing high sounding titles, such as Father, Holy Father, Most Holy Father, Reverend, right Reverend, his Eminence- All self honoring God-Like titles. Dressed in fancy garb that sets them apart from the laity, that demand worship of them, rather than Jehovah God. Even making claim to being of the Priesthood class, as the Mormon leaders do.
It matters little, what Religion on this earth now, you can mention, they are all part and parcel with "BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS." All are doomed to destruction when Jehovah turns the Beast and the Ten Horns against her to destroy her. This is an event Jehovah himself sets in motion when he puts it into the hearts of these ruling authorities to turn on her, like a pack of angry wolves, and rip her to pieces. Confiscating her great riches, completely burning her with fire. {Revelation 17:16,17;18:15-17} All in one day, John tells us: "Her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, while she is being completely burned with fire." While everyone stands at a distance in fear of her torment, unable to assist her in any way. {Revelation 18:15-18} Satan's Woman is finally being executed. BABYLON is finally falling! {Revelation 18:20-24} Jehovah has finally called her to account!
The Prophet Jeremiah describes this fall of the empire of false Religion, in these following words: Note! It is World-Wide tumult!
Disaster spreading from Nation to Nation! A Mighty Storm!
31 "The tumult will resound to the ends of the earth, for the LORD will bring charges against the nations;
he will bring judgment on all mankind and put the wicked to the sword,' " declares the LORD.
32 This is what the LORD Almighty says:
"Look! Disaster is spreading from nation to nation;
a mighty storm is rising from the ends of the earth."
33 At that time those slain by the LORD will be everywhere—from one end of the earth to the other. They will not be mourned or gathered up or buried, but will be like refuse lying on the ground.
34 Weep and wail, you shepherds;
roll in the dust, you leaders of the flock.
For your time to be slaughtered has come; you will fall and be shattered like fine pottery.
35 The shepherds will have nowhere to flee,
the leaders of the flock no place to escape." {Jeremiah 25:31-35 NIV}
The Shepherds of old Babylon, rolling in the dust! Being slaughtered. Nowhere for them to flee to. No place of escape. It's all over for Babylon the Great, and her followers.
How bad will this slaughter actually be? Zephaniah will inform us of that:
14 "The great Day of the LORD is near, near and rapidly approaching. Listen, the Day of the LORD—there the warrior's cry is bitter. 15 That day is a day of wrath,a day of trouble and distress, a day of destruction and desolation,
a day of darkness and gloom,a day of clouds and blackness, 16 a day of trumpet [blast] and battle cry against the fortified cities, and against the high corner towers. 17 I will bring distress on mankind,and they will walk like the blind because they have sinned against the LORD.Their blood will be poured out like dustand their flesh like dung. 18 Their silver and their goldwill not be able to rescue them on the day of the LORD's wrath.
The whole earth will be consumed by the fire of His jealousy. For He will make a complete, yes, a horrifying end of all the inhabitants of the earth." {Zephaniah 1:14-18 HCSB}
Every vestige of satan's Woman, BABYLON THE GREAT gone completely! Zephaniah has informed us she suffers a horrifying end, of everyone on this earth who has followed her. Apparently followed her right to her complete end. She falls! They all fall right along with her. Unless of course the obey the following command:
4 "Then I heard another voice from heaven: Come out of her, My people, so that you will not share in her sins, or receive any of her plagues. 5 For her sins are piled up to heaven,and God has remembered her crimes." {Revelation 18:4,5 HCSB}
If you're really one of God's People, should you not obey that command, and come out? Or would you rather have a sharing with her in her sins? You Choose! You're free to do that!
For the benefit of those who make claim to being either Athiest or Agnostic, whether they no it or not, thay are as much a part of BABYLON THE GREAT as anyone else, in that satan is the one who has caused these ones to form the opinions they have. So, the are as misled by him just as much so, or even more so, than those that claim belief in God; so their claim doesn't get them off the hook, so to speak. They'll get the same as BABYLON gets. No exceptions! Sorry! Wannabe
7
What would occur when Christ was Crowned King?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
what would occur when christ was crowned king?.

on page 147 paragraph 16 of the publication, "you can live forever in paradise on earth," book - published by the governing body of the watchtower society, we find this statement made by them: "bible evidence shows that in the year 1914 c.e.

god's time arrived for christ to return and begin ruling.
wannabe

What would occur when Christ was Crowned King?
On Page 147 Paragraph 16 of the Publication, "You can live forever in Paradise on Earth," Book - published by the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society, we find this statement made by them: "Bible evidence shows that in the year 1914 C.E. God's time arrived for Christ to return and begin ruling. It was then that the cry was heard in Heaven: "Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ." Then they insert the scripture to back that claim up at Revelation 12:10- The question now, is, does Bible evidence really support what they claim; or have they once again made a serious blunder in interpreting the Bible's true message, and in actuality goes counter to what they are telling us here? Their biggest mistake to begin with, is using scripture out of context, for using the scripture they are quoting from, in its entirety, shows them to be in serious error. In a matter as imortant as this one is, the entire context must be read in order to arrive at the correct conclusion. Lets look at the full context now, shall we?
1"A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. 4 His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. 5 Shegave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
12Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."
13When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach. 15Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus." {Revelation 12:1-17 NIV}
What do we see occuring in verse one? Jehovah's Heavenly Woman has only now, in 1914, come into labor pains. Crying out in her agony to give Birth, it tells us. It doesn't tell us that she's given Birth already, it tells us she's about to give Birth, and suffering great pains to do so. It tells us the dragon is waiting to devour her Child the moment it is Born. Then it tells us the Child is Born but snatched up to God. Next we're told the Woman flees into the Wilderness to a place prepared by God, and taken care of for 1260 days. Indicating divine protection, for a period of time.
Not being able to touch Jehovah's Heavenly Woman, satan goes off in a great rage to attack the offspring of the Heavenly Woman who hold to the testimony of Jesus and obey God's Commandments, in fulfillment of Genesis 3:15. That speaks of the great hostlity that would exist between the seed of satan and the seed of the Woman. Now, satan wages War against these ones when he is thrown down to this earth. Great persecution will break out against the true followers of the Christ at this time, as Jesus said it would, because of his name. {Matthew 24:9}
Jesus himself pointed to these labor pains of the Kingdom that would break out in the year 1914, when he said the following:
8 "But all this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come." {Matthew 24:8 NLT} So, the sign Jesus gave, was a long period of distress, which would occur in similar fashion as a Pregnant Woman today, would experience labor pains, which is described in the following:
The contractions occur in waves and could be 10 or 15 minutes apart at first, which is why many women don’t even realize that this is what they have been waiting for.
Even in early labor, if you place your hand on your stomach you will feel that it is really tight and tense.
The contractions occur and then you have a period of relief from the pain. In order to time the period between contractions, you start timing when the contraction starts and stop when another contraction begins. If you are truly in the early stages of labour, this time period will become shorter and shorter. You can also time the duration of the contraction to see how long it lasts. As the space between the contractions decrease, the duration of the contractions increase.
Doctors will tell you that when you find your contractions lasting for one minute and occurring five minutes apart, then it is time for you to call your doctor and to go to the hospital
. Your water may or may not have broken and you probably didn’t notice that the mucous plug has been released from the cervix. However these are questions that you doctor will ask. Leave yourself plenty of time to get to the hospital, but if you are a new mother you can probably delay this until the contractions become so intense that you find it difficult to breathe through them.
There are
To compare this now, with the birth pangs of the Kingdom. First in time Jesus had told them; "You will hear of Wars and reports of Wars; see that you are not terrified; for these things must take place, but the end is not yet." These Wars and reports of Wars were the early stages, of this heavenly Womans Prehancy, and can, as is stated, last for many hours, as did World War One and World War Two. All but for some sporadic fighting in various Countries around out globe now, there has been a period of relief, but still labor pains occuring. Just as these contractions, occur in waves with short intervals between them, so too the sign he gave would also occur in waves, with short breaks in between, but still in evidence. Even now, there are Wars going on around our Globe, indictacing the labor pains are still very much in evidence. But troubles will mount and build, until we will be having very very critical times on this earth, almost impossible to deal with, as so described, the problems and difficulties will be so intense it will be difficult to even breathe through them. {2 Timothy 3:1-5}
`29 ¨He told them this parable: "Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. Luke 21:29-31 NIV
So, when those Trees were all in full bloom, when those labor pains had intensified to the point, the Baby was ready to be delivered, then God's Kingdom would be near. 1914, you could say, was early spring, when God's Heavenly Woman first began showing signs of pregnancy, but it would take the fulfillment of all her labor pains, every aspect of the sign Jesus gave to be in evidence, before even the Kingdom was near! Don't miss that point! Near! Is not here! Even now that sign is in evidence! Even now that Woman is still having those pains of labor. That Tree is not in full bloom as yet. Up to now we have only been through the first stage of those labor pains. The second stage will be much shorter and will end with the third stage, with the Male Child being delivered. Just as birth pangs upon a pregnant Woman.
So, you see, the Governing Body, as they have so many times in the past, before, been in error, so too, now! The Christ did not become crowned King of God's Kingdom in 1914. Even now, he is not yet a Crowned King. The sign is not completed as yet. The Fig Tree is not in full bloom as yet. The Woman is still going through those labor pains; but when that Heavenly Woman finally delivers that Man-Child, then Jehovah will come forth; and "like a Woman giving Birth he will groan, pant, and gasp, all at the same time. " {Isaiah 42:14} Then Jehovah's King will take his Crown.
To support their interpretation that the Christ was invisibly present in the year 1914, they tell us: "The Greek word here translated "Coming" is parousia and it means presence." So, as they only partially quote Revelation 12:10 they supply us with only half of the truth of this matter in this statement as well, because this Greek word means much more than they tell us. It also means, as you will see, "to have come." "the thought of the arrival [advent or coming] of a person to a place"...
A touch of dishonesty going on here, I would say to support a false idea. As the following shows you.
2 Peter 1:15-18 Commentary
Search by Verse Word or Phrase: Whole Bible --- OT NT --- Law History Wisdom Major Prophets Minor Prophets ...
... "). Coming (3952) (parousia) is a combination of two Greek words para = with, alongside + ousia = ...
... in fact state that parousia is derived from pareimi (from para = near, with + eimi = to be) which ...
... ,to have come. Parousia then literally means a being beside or a presence. The word denotes ...
... presence with. Parousia conveys the thought of an arrival (advent or coming) of a person to a place ...http://www.preceptaustin.org/2_peter_115-18.htm • Wednesday, 17 February 2010, 1:58pm
The Bible evidence doesn't support their interpretaion at all, but what information is supplied shows very clearly that the word Coming should be inserted in any scripture dealing with the eventual arrival of the Christ, as I will show now:
29"Immediately after the distress of those days
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."{Matthew 24:29-31 NIV}
Matthew tells us that there will be great heavenly Phenomenom occuring at the coming of the Christ, so much so, all the Nations will mourn at his coming. Mark also reported on this same heavenly event. Note his words:
24"But in those days, following that distress,
" 'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
25the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
26"At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens."{Mark 13:24-28 NIV}
The Apostle John too reported on this earth shaking event, that would send all mankiind into a frenzy:
7"Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen."{Revelation 1:7 NIV}
This doesn't mean that this World will literally see the Christ Coming, but means it will be known by their sense perception, because it will be an extraordinaryly remarkable event. So much so, all the Peoples of the earth will mourn because of him.
Let the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses tell everyone that occured in 1914 too. What's that old Adage?
"You can fool some of the People some of the time! But you can't fool all of the People all of the time." It's about time the Governing Body woke up to that fact. They just might wish to do some hurried packing; because I feel it safe to say, there'll be some unhappy People around when they finally learn they've been taken in by a bunch of Spiritual Hucksters, masquerading as the anointed Brothers of the Christ.Wannabe
They will continue to mount until Matthew 24:7 is fulfilled and "Nation will rise against Nation and Kingdom against Kingdom." Ezekiels Prophecy will see fulfillment, when "the Sword of every man is turned against the Sword of his own Brother." Jeremiah's words, "when a Calamity goes forth from Nation to Nation and a great tempest is roused up from the remotest parts of the earth." The time when Jehovah puts himself "in judgement with all flesh;" the final part of the labor pains, and Jehovah's Kingdom is Born. His Christ takes his ruling authority. {Ezekiel 38:21} {Jeremiah 25:31-38}
Did all of this occur in the year 1914? Silly Question, eh what?
Especially in the light of the fact, that Jesus likened all these Labor pains, or the composite sign he gave to a Fig Tree, and told them the following about that Tree, or all the Trees.
stages of labor, just as there are stages of pregnancy. In the early stage, the cervix is just starting to dilate. This first stage can last for many hours until the cervix is completely dilated. First time mothers usually have a longer first stage of labor than they will with subsequent births. The second stage is much shorter and ends with the third stage, which is the birth of the baby.
13
Why Blame God?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
why blame god?.

he said to the woman, "did god really say, 'you must not eat from any tree in the garden'?

so, whose really to blame for the thousands of years of suffering and death?
wannabe

Why Blame God?
Because Mankind has suffered thousands of years of misery, pain and death, some will blame God for all of that suffering. "Why has he permitted it to go on for so long like that," some will complain! But did Jehovah cause all of that misery that has been inflicted on Mankind? "But he has the power to bring it to an end," they'll complain." True! He does, and his intention is to do just that. "Why hasn't he done it sooner," they'll continue to complain." Usually that is because they have been directly effected with some of that pain and suffering, and they are having a very difficult time in dealing with it, because it has touched them personally, now. Through the pen of his Prophet Isaiah, Jehovah tells us this about his unfailing word:
10 "As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it." {Isaiah 55:10,11 NIV}
When he had put the pair in the Garden he said this to them:
28 "God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."{Genesis 1:28 NIV}
They had started out as two perfect, righteous, sinless, Humans, with the opportunity for everlasting life on a beautiful Park-Like Paradise. With Jehovah's blessing upon them. Had Adam not have fallen he would have passed on to Mankind, the righteous human perfection he had started out with. Because he sinned willfully, rather than being the righteous, perfect Man he started out as, he became a sinner, and rather than pass on righteous human perfection, with everlasting life in view, he passed on now, only what he possessed; sin, and the subsequent result of that, death. Now on Adam's account we are all dying sinners. {Romans 5:12}
Is all of that Jehovah's fault? Should we blame him for Adam's Fall into sin? Should we blame him for the thousands of years of misery Adam's fall brought upon all Mankind? That was not Jehovah's purpose for Mankind. He wanted Man to live forever! To never die! Someone though, wanted all mankind dead! By inducing Adam to eat of that fruit,through his Wife Eve, he [satan] actually succeeded in murdering the human-race, right at its inception. Most already know who this someone was!
What was it that started it all off, in that Garden? Jehovah's own words will explain that:
16"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "You may surely eat of every tree of the garden,17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die." {Genesis 2:16,17 ESV}
So! Nothing too difficult! Obey one simple command, in exchange for everlasting life on a paradise earth.
What happens? Along comes satan the devil, Jehovah's great adversary, who knew all along what Jehovah had said regarding the Tree they were not to touch. Playing ignorant of that, he asked the Woman if God had really said that:
1 "Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" 2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves."{Genesis 3:1-6 NIV}
Can anyone imagine just what satan is like? He knows full well if he can get the pair to eat of that tree, they would die, without any doubt in his mind at all. Further to that he would also have known, the entire human-race would be murdered if he could get them to eat of that Tree, because, being as crafty, as he was, he would have known the entire human-race would come from the loins of Adam, and Adam losing perfection, would pass on imperfection, sin and death to all proceeding generations to come. So, whose really to blame for the thousands of years of suffering and death? The one Jesus called, the 'liar and the Father of the lie." All the blame rests on the shoulders of satan the devil, not Jehovah God. {John 8:44}
How did Jehovah rectify matters right there in the Garden, and how did he show by his words to satan, that it would take thousands of years of human suffering, before all of that suffering would end? Note his words to satan first:
15 "I will put hostility between you and the woman,and between your seed and her seed.He will strike your head,
and you will strike his heel." {Genesis 3:15 HCSB}
We see, Jehovah foretold two seeds! The seed of his heavenly Woman, and the seed of satan the devil, of which between there would be great hatred.
At that very instance Jehovah had signed the death warrent of his Son, who was the principle or main seed, as well as, all the close followers of his Son, who constituted part of that seed.
This seed was to come through the Family line of faithful Abraham, that would lead right to the Christ. Who would receive a heel wound from satan at his crucification. Paul explains:
16 "Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say "and to seeds," as though referring to many, but and to your seed, referring to one, who is Christ."{Galatians 3:16 HCSB}
We know from the Genesis account of creation it has been, up to now, approximately 6000 years, this human sufering has been allowed to go on. Jehovah knew it would take that long to produce the promised seed, who consisted of the Christ and the 144000 that would rule with him in his Father's Kingdom. Throughout all of that time period this hatred has raged, against the seed of Jehovah's Heavenly Woman. Throughout all of that time period Jehovah has carefully selected out from among Mankind those that would rule with his Son in heavenly glory, as King Priests.
Right there in that Garden those many thousands of years ago, Jehovah proposed a Kingdom with his Christ as King, with his 1444000 followers to restore this earth to the paradise like conditions, that would have existed now, but for the devils influence and Adam's fall into sin. Those conditions will come though! Make no mistake about that! Does that really work any hardship on any of us today, especially if we survive to gain everlasting life under that Kingdom? Why attribute anything bad to a God who has gone to so much trouble, heartache, and pain, himself, to see that all of us are set free from those things, for all eternity. Does he deserve any blame for that? Why, then, blame him for anything else now? If anything; how about a little credit for the following :
4 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes. Death will exist no longer; grief, crying, and pain will exist no longer, because the previous things have passed away." {Revelation 21:4 HCSB}
7 "The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing."{Isaiah 14:7 ASV}
I'm hard-pressed to find any reason to blame him for an earth filled with joy, and peace, when all are singing! No one is in grief, sadness, or crying any tears, anymore, because a loved one has died, and there's no more pain from all the deseases that are running rampant now. Great reasons for singing, wouldn't you say? Living on a calm quiet, restful earth, with everything to sing about? That is the hope Jehovah has given all of us, so why question or doubt anything he's done in the past or may yet do in the future? What he has done has all been for us!
That's why he sent his Son to take away the sin of the World, inflicted upon us by satan causing Adam's fall. "God Loved the World so much that he gave his only begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not perish but have everlasting life." {John 3:16,17} Jehovah has reversed satan's actions, to our benefit, because no demon angel or human can thwart Jehovah's purpose for a paradise earth with perfect righteous, sinless humans, living on it forever. "My word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it." It will all come true! So, why blame God for anything? Put the blame where it rightfully belongs, and give the credit to whom it is rightfully due.
None of us will ever be able to repay him the credit, that is his natural due. So, why blame God? Wannabe
10
Invisible Presence! Or COMING? Which?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
invisible presence!

or coming?

the governing body of the watchtower society, makes claim to being the anointed brothers of the christ.
wannabe

Invisible Presence! Or COMING? Which is it?
The Governing Body of the Watchtower Society, makes claim to being the anointed Brothers of the Christ. Being as that claim is common knowledge today, that is, to say, at the very least a very odd claim for them to make. Why do I say odd?
Quoting from one of their publcations, "You can live forever in paradise on earth," they make this following statement, in part: "Jesus Christ began to rule as King of God's Heavenly Government in 1914" ... Page 141 Paragraph 21 - The reason this is an odd statement is because when the Christ was to take Kingdom power, he was to gather all of his anointed Brothers "from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to the other extremity." That is apparent from the words of Matthew at Chapter 24:29-31-
So, was it to be true that the Christ really did take Kingdom Power in 1914, there would have been a drastic shake-up in that Organization in that year. Having very suddenly no one at the healm of control. All their leaders was it to be true they were of the anointed, would have all quite suddenly vanished into thin air. Strangely enough they are all still on the scene, all, but for perhaps a few who have already passed away in death. For them, claiming as they do to be being of the anointed class, should have known better than to even make such a claim as they do.
The true anointed class would have known that they would be taken up when the Christ took his Kingdom power. None of them would have ever made a claim such as is made by the Governing Body. Now, here we have the the Governing Body, claiming to be anointed, but still on the scene 96 years later, after the King was already appointed as such, in the year 1914, according to them, that is. You don't suppose they are not what they make claim to being, do you? I'm thinking their idea of an invisible presence has befuddled their minds to the point they do not know, when the Master will arrive, or how, anymore.
In this same publication mentioned, they also tell us, that, "the Greek word here Translated "Coming" is "Parousia" and it means presence. so, then, when the "sign" is seen, this means we would know that Christ is present though unseen, that he has already come in Kingdom Power"... Chapter 18 Paragraph 3 - Okay! They have told us that much! But what is it they haven't told us about this word parousia? From my own research:
Question: "What is the Parousia?"

Answer: "
The Greek word parousia (pronounced pair-oo-see-ah) is a noun that means "a coming" or "a presence." As it is used in the New Testament, it can refer to any individual's coming or presence to a specific place or to be with specific people. For example, in 1 Corinthians 16:17 , Paul writes of "the coming of Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus." In 2 Corinthians 7:6 , Paul writes of "the coming of Titus." In Philippians 2:12 , it is used to refer to Paul's presence.

Most importantly, however, if you were to do a search of the Greek New Testament, you would find that primarily this word refers to the Coming of the Lord Jesus. It can refer to either His second coming at the END of the 7-year tribulation period ( Matthew 24:27 , 37 , 39 ; Revelation 19:11 ff ), as the or to His coming to rapture His Church PRIOR to the 7-year period known tribulation ( 1 Corinthians 15:23 ; 1 Thessalonians 2:19 ; 3:13 ; 5:23 ; James 5:8 ; 1 John 2:28 ).

So, the Parousia is the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you have to look at the context to determine whether it refers to His appearing in the air to rapture or catch away the Church ( 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 ), or whether it refers to His second coming to Earth to setup His millennial kingdom." (Matthew 24-25; Revelation 19:11ff ; 20:4-6 ).
The whole truth is, they have really not been telling all of us the real truth of the matter. They have been shading the matter to suit their own purpose, or their own personal private intepretation, of the year 1914. Can we say, that they have been dealing honestly, with the rank and file? Not according to what I just set forth here, they have not!
Rather than play with Time Propcheies, or Hebrew or Greek words to establish a matter as the truth. As they do; should not the truth of God's word, be sufficient, to establish any matter as the truth, without using this showy display of very dubious knowledge; because at best, that's all it really is. {2 Coronthians 13:1}
Using their own New World Translation Bible, let's see if we can unravel this very confusing subject they have created with their misleading interpretations. Beginning with, in their own Bible, 1 John 3:2-3 which informs us of this:
"Beloved ones, now we are Children of God, but as yet it has not been made manifest what we shall be. We do know that whenever he is made manifest we shall be like him, because we shall see him just as he is." Interesting word, Manifest! I'll supply the definition using my on-line Dictionary, next:
Manifest adj.
Clearly apparent to the sight or understanding; obvious.
See Synonyms at apparent. tr.v.
man·i·fest·ed, man·i·fest·ing, man·i·fests1.
To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal: "Mercedes . . . manifested the chaotic abandonment of hysteria" (Jack London). 2.
To be evidence of; prove.
Someone might argue; but that's when they are resurrected to heavenly life." True! That would have application at his actual coming too. They would see him as he is at that time as well. For who would know better than them, how he was to appear? They are the ones who penned the information about just how he would appear in Kingdom Power. They would know much better than anyone else! His Coming, as the definition brings out would be clearly apparent to their sight or understanding. Plainly revealed to their understanding. Like a flash of lightning! They would know enough not to believe anyone, claiming to represent the Christ. They would listen to none making such claims. They would know just how their Master was coming:
23 "And they will say to you, see here, or see there; do not go out or chase after them]. 24 For even as the lightning by its flashing shines from one part under heaven, to another part under heaven, so the Son of Man will be."{Luke 17:23,24 {NWT}
No possible way in the World can the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society, be correct in their interpretation, that the Christ has an invisible presence. Whenever has anyone ever seen an invisible bolt of lightening?
Keep in mind, I'm using the Governing Bodies own Bible, the New World Trasnslation, that they themselves use to support their interpretation, that the Christ was invisibly present in the year 1914; to prove their interpretation to be faulty, in serious error; for I will show using this same Bible, that rather than being invisibly present, in that year he is yet to come. To continue with Mark 13:26,27, we read: "And then they will see the Son of Man COMING in clouds with power and great glory. And THEN he will send forth the Angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds from earths extremity to heavens extremity." Once again, we see he gathers his anointed brothers at his COMING. You cannot come with the clouds, if you're already invisibly present, now can you? Now verses 35,37- "Therefore keep on the watch, for you do not know when the Master of the House is COMING, whether late in the day or at midnight or at cockcrowing or early in the morning; in order that when he ARRIVES SUDDENLY, he does not find you sleeping." It would appear to me, that he will catch the Governing Body in deep slumber, as a matter of fact has done so, because his Sudden Arrival has not occurred as yet.
Now, they did not know at what point the Master of the house was COMING, none-the-less, they have him ruling in 1914 as the King of God's Kingdom. Already Crowned and Throned!
It does well to notice too, just at what time period the gathering of his anointed Brothers takes place. Matthew tells us, Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days, they would see the Son of Man COMING on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, and then the gathering of his anointed Brothers would be done. Did the Tribulation end in 1914, or was it just now on the horizon? When Jesus gave them that composite sign, was it all fulfilled in the year 1914? Only when the sign first became in evidence? Didn't Jesus say, "All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress." Some Bible translations render that, as the 'beginning of birth pangs,' which to my mind is more accurate under the circumstances. {Matthew 24:8} Didn't he give them the parable of the Fig-Tree, that showed his actual coming would take some time? He told them: "Now learn from the Fig Tree as an illustration this point: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and it puts forth leaves , you know that summer is near. Likewise also you, when you see ALL THESE THINGS, know that he is near at the doors." Even yet! Is all of that sign in evidence? Do we see ALL OF THOSE THINGS as yet? No! We do not! But when we do, even then it will only be near, but still not here. That illustration alone that Jesus gave, shows very clearly the Governing Bodies interpretation of 1914 is in serious error.
Jesus made it very clear, that his coming would be made known to everyone on this Planet, in these few following words:
"Moreover, just as it occurred in the Days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man; they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, Woman were being given in marriage, until that day when Noah entered into the Ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all. Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot; they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying they were selling, they were planting, they were building. But on the Day that Lot came out of Sodom it rained fire and supher from heaven and destroyed them all." The SAME WAY it will be on that day when the Son of Man is to be revealed."
31"When the Son of Man ARRIVES IN HIS GLORY, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 And All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat, I got thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you received me hospitably naked, and you clothed me. , I fell sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, with the words 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison go to you?'
40 And in reply the king will say to them truly ,'I say to you to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my Brothers, you did it to me."
41"Then he will say, in turn to those on his left, 'Be on your way from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' 42 For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat, I got thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger and you did not receive me hospitably. naked but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison but you did not look after me.' 44"They also will answer, when did we see you Lord, hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister you?'
45"Then he will answer them with the words 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to
{Matthew 25:31-46 NIV}
one of these least ones, you did not do it to me."
46 And these will depart into everlasting cutting off, but the righteous into everlasting life."
Did You notice in this parable! Neither the righteous nor the unrighteous had known just whom they were dealing with. "When did we see you?" The Governing Body makes it a point to flaunt the idea that they are of the anointed remnant, and most today are keenly aware of that. So, they could never be the ones talked about in this parable.
Notice the words of the Apostle Paul, as he reveals, the means of cutting off, these ones who have been cursed into everlasting fire, receive that cutting off, and from what source it comes from:
"This takes into account that it is righhteous on God's part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you, but, to you who suffer tribulation relief along with us at the Revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful Angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength,' at the time HE COMES to be glorified in connection with his Holy Ones and to be regarded in that Day with wonder in connection with all those who exercized faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you." {2 Thessalonians 1:1-10}
This word Revelation has a very interesting definition, especially as it applies here:
1. Revelation:
a.
The act of revealing or disclosing. b.
Something revealed, especially
a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.
2.
Theology
A manifestation of divine will or truth.
"Manifest" also casts more light on this this, as we see from the following definition:
man·i·fest (adj.
Clearly apparent to the sight or understanding; obvious. See Synonyms at apparent.
tr.v.
man·i·fest·ed, man·i·fest·ing, man·i·fests1.
To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal: "Mercedes . . . manifested the chaotic abandonment of hysteria" (Jack London). 2.
To be evidence of; prove. Paul mentioned 'at the time he comes he would be regarded with wonder.' Because his coming would be clearly apparent to their sight or understanding. Very obvious! Was it to be true he arrived invisibly in 1914, none of that could be true, because something not seen, isn't clearly apparent. Isn't obvious to the sight or understanding.
No! The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, has not been given the true sense of the Holy Writings, and their insistence that the Christ was invisibly present in the year 1914 shows that they have not known, or realized, the truth of the divine will, that the Christ has yet to come! They desperately need that dramatic disclosure, of something to this very day, they do not know, or realise. That is very probably because they think so much of themselves, they feel they do not have to listen to any, who just might know a lot more than they do
While they continue with their false idea the Christ was invisibly present in the year 1914, let them explain away the following words of Jesus, who I might add, doesn't agree with them at all.
23 "And they will say to you, see here, or see there; do not go out or chase after them]. 24 For even as the lightning by its flashing shines from one part under heaven, to another part under heaven, so the Son of Man will be."{Luke 17:23,24 {NWT}
In conclusion then! The significant event that marked 1914 was not the invisible presence of the Christ in Kingdom power! It was merely the beginning of birth pangs of the Kingdom. Jehovah's Heavenly Woman John tells us, is pregnant, crying out in her pains to give birth. John tells us in verse four, that she is 'about to give birth.' satan is pictured there, as standing before the Woman, that when she did give birth he might devour her Child. Before that Male Child was to be born War would break out in heaven, and Woe for this earth and for the sea of people, on it. satan is throw down, and the time of this Worlds greatest trouble would begin. Christ then takes Kingdom power, as the Woman gives birth to the male child, and his words at Matthew 24:21,22 are fulfilled; the great tribulation breaks out, to be cut short by divine intervention. When that period of foretold tribulation begins all will know the Christ is in Kingdom power. He will have, at that time finally come! Read carefully Revelation 12:1-17- and Daniel 12:1-
That Heavenly Man-Child could not have been born in 1914! First, only when the Birth pangs of the Kingdom, reach completion, or run their full course, the Heavenly woman's Man Child will be delivered ! Then the King will finally come! That Heavenly Woman is still to this very day, suffering those labor pains. We await the Birth of the Kingdom, still, yet to Come! {Matthew 24:8}
The very Bible Translation the Governing Body uses to support that falsehood, I have used to show, that it is not a true Bible teaching at all, but is, a lie! Invisibly present in 1914? Absolutely and positively not! We all, now, await his Coming! Which is what the Governing Body and their followers should be doing, and teaching. Wannabe
So, invisibly present in 1914? I don't think so, and neither should any of you! Just how, and in what way will Jesus be revealed to all mankind, to their sorrow?
Keep this point in mind, as I continue! Who would know exactly whom all of the anointed Brothers of Christ are, that are scattered to the four winds, and just who is it that does the gathering of them? It is the Christ himself is it not? In similar fashion! Who does the Bible tell us does the separating work between the Sheep and the Goats? That too is the Christ, is it not? The Governing Body makes claim that they are gathering this great crowd of Sheep-like ones into their ranks; but how would they know the difference between a Sheep-like one and a Goat-like one? Anyone, and everyone that wishes would be allowed to join ranks with them, without exception. As long as they toe-the-line, that is, and accept everything they teach without question; and are totally submissive to the Elder Arrangement. Step off, or over that line; your out of there P.D.Q.
Notice now Matthews words on the separting work, and just whose doing it; and when it is done:
7
Compare the New Worlds Translation with all of these!
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
james 5:7 (holman christian standard bible).

james 5:8 (holman christian standard bible).

2 peter 1:16 (holman christian standard bible).
wannabe

Compare the New Worlds Translation with all of these!
As you will see, if you look at all of these scriptures in the New WorldsTranslation Bible, The Jehovah Witness Bible, you will see, that in every instance the New World Translation renders all of these sciptures as PRESENCE! NOT COMING! They have designed their Translation to suit their interpretation that Jesus was invisibly present in 1914! You could say: "It is Taylor Made, to fit 1914"
Go into the Biblegateway, and do what I'm doing. Check out every Bible Translation that is on that programe, and compare them with the New World Tranaslation. You will get the same shock as I did, believe me. I think only one Translation uses Presence, and that's Younge's! Can every Bible Translation be wrong, and only theirs correct? I pick up the strange odor of Rat here, and you will too, if you follow through and check it out for yourself. Check em out!
Matthew 24:39 (Worldwide English (New Testament))
39The people did not know until much water came and killed them all. When the Son of Man comes, it will be like that.
Matthew 24:37 (Worldwide English (New Testament))
37When the Son of Man comes, it will be as it was in the time of Noah.
Matthew 24:27 (Worldwide English (New Testament))
27When lightning shines in the east, it can be seen in the west. It will be like that when the Son of Man comes.
Matthew 24:3 (Worldwide English (New Testament))
3Jesus was sitting on the hill called the Mount of Olives. The disciples came to him alone. They said, `Tell us, when will this happen? What will be the sign to show you are coming and that it is the end of this world?'
1 Corinthians 15:23 (Worldwide English (New Testament))
23But each one has his turn. Christ rose first. Then those who belong to Christ will rise when he comes again.
1 Thessalonians 2:19 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
19 For who is our hope, or joy, or crown of boasting in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? Is it not you?
1 Thessalonians 3:13 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
13 May He make your hearts blameless in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints. Amen.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
15 For we say this to you by a revelation from the Lord: We who are still alive at the Lord's coming will certainly have no advantage over those who have fallen asleep.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely. And may your spirit, soul, and body be kept sound and blameless for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 2:1 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness
1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him: we ask you, brothers,
2 Thessalonians 2:8 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
8 and then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Jesus will destroy him with the breath of His mouth and will bring him to nothing with the brightness of His coming.
James 5:7 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
7 Therefore, brothers, be patient until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth and is patient with it until it receives the early and the late rains.
James 5:8 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
8 You also must be patient. Strengthen your hearts, because the Lord's coming is near. (
2 Peter 1:16 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

The Trustworthy Prophetic Word
16 For we did not follow cleverly contrived myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ; instead, we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.
2 Peter 3:4 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)
4 saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they have been since the beginning of creation."
1 John 2:28 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

God's Children
28 So now, little children, remain in Him, so that when He appears we may have boldness and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
1 John 2:28 (Today's New International Version)

God's Children and Sin
28 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
2 Peter 1:16 (Today's New International Version)
16 For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2 Peter 3:4 (Today's New International Version)
4 They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."
James 5:7 (Today's New International Version)

Patience in Suffering
7 Be patient, then, brothers and sisters, until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop, patiently waiting for the autumn and spring rains.
James 5:8 (Today's New International Version)
8 You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near.
2 Thessalonians 2:1 (Today's New International Version)

2 Thessalonians 2

The Man of Lawlessness
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,
2 Thessalonians 2:8 (Today's New International Version)
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
1 Thessalonians 2:19 (Today's New International Version)
19 For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you?
1 Thessalonians 3:13 (New International Version)
13May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 (New International Version)
15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (New International Version)
23May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:23 (New International Version)
23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Matthew 24:3 (New International Version)
3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?
Matthew 24:27 (New International Version)
27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of
Matthew 24:37 (New International Version)
37As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Matthew 24:39 (New International Version)
39and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Matthew 24:3 (New American Standard Bible)
3As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Matthew 24:27 (New American Standard Bible)
27"For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matthew 24:37 (New American Standard Bible)
37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
Matthew 24:39 (New American Standard Bible)
39and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
1 Corinthians 15:23 (New American Standard Bible)
23But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,
Thessalonians 2:1 (New American Standard Bible)

2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2 Thessalonians 2:8 (New American Standard Bible)
8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
James 5:7 (New American Standard Bible)
7Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains.
James 5:8 (New American Standard Bible)
8You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
2 Peter 1:16 (New American Standard Bible)
16 For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty.
2 Peter 3:4 (New American Standard Bible)
4and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation."
1 John 2:28 (New American Standard Bible)
28Now,little children, abide in Him, so that when He appears, we may have confidence and not shrink away from Him in shame at His coming. Wannabe
1
When does the one with the Legal right come?
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
'" {ezekiel 21:25-27 niv}.

the kingdom had not even been born, as yet.

and the authority of his christ.
wannabe

When does the one with the legal right come?
To the last reigning King to sit on Jehovah's Throne at Jerusalem, Jehovah, through the pen of Ezekiel tells us the following:
25 " 'O profane and wicked prince of Israel, whose day has come, whose time of punishment has reached its climax, 26 this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Take off the turban, remove the crown. It will not be as it was: The lowly will be exalted and the exalted will be brought low. 27 A ruin! A ruin! I will make it a ruin! It will not be restored until he comes to whom it rightfully belongs; to him I will give it.'" {Ezekiel 21:25-27 NIV}
The Prophet Dainel also gives us a picture of this ruination of Jehovah's Kingdom Authority, his right to rule, pictured by his Throne at Jereusalem, which woud be brought to ruin, when Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE. Note the words of Daniel:
10 "These are the visions I saw while lying in my bed: I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous. 11 The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth. 12 Its leaves were beautiful, its fruit abundant, and on it was food for all. Under it the beasts of the field found shelter, and the birds of the air lived in its branches; from it every creature was fed.
13 "In the visions I saw while lying in my bed, I looked, and there before me was a messenger, a holy one, coming down from heaven. 14 He called in a loud voice: 'Cut down the tree and trim off its branches; strip off its leaves and scatter its fruit. Let the animals flee from under it and the birds from its branches. 15 But let the stump and its roots, bound with iron and bronze, remain in the ground, in the grass of the field. " 'Let him be drenched with the dew of heaven, and let him live with the animals among the plants of the earth. 16 Let his mind be changed from that of a man and let him be given the mind of an animal, till seven times pass by for him.
17 " 'The decision is announced by messengers, the holy ones declare the verdict, so that the living may know that the Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and gives them to anyone he wishes and sets over them the lowliest of men." {Daniel 4:10-17 NIV}
Before I continue on with this subject, I should like to mention, the fact, that I went into the BibleGateway and checked out 16 different Bible Translations to see how they rendered Matthew 24:3- whether it was PRESENCE, or COMING. 16 different Bible Translations rendered it COMING, but not presence. Only one rendered it as Presence, which was Young's!
Using this word presence, casts a heavy shadow over the real truth of this matter, because there's a great deal of difference between Coming, and Presence- The word presence aids in teaching a false idea, about the seven times of Daniels Prophecy.
Copying from a paragragh in one of the Watchtower publications, we read this statement concerning the Tree of Daniel's vision:
18.-"So God's rulership as represented by the "tree" was cut down down in 607 B.C.E. No longer was there a government to represent God's rulership on earth... {I'll cut into say, I don't agree with what is said next, for my own reasons} ... "Thus in 607 B.C.E. a period of time began that Jesus Christ later referred to as "the appointed time of the Nations," or the times of the Gentiles." During these "appointed times" God did not have a Government to represent his rulership on earth.
19- "What was to happen at the end of these "appointed times of the Nations"? Jehovah was to give the power to rule to the one who has the "legal right." This one is Jesus Christ. So if we can find out when the "appointed times of the Nations" end, we will know when Christ begins to rule as King." {page 140} {you can live forever in paradise on earth}
Keep in mind as you read this next scripture, Jesus wasn't talking about ancient Jerusalem. He was giving them a composite sign of his coming, so Jesus there was making reference to the Jerusalem of their own day. What was going to occur from their own day and forward. Jesus had foretold the destruction of the Jewish Temple of worship, telling them that not 'a stone would be left upon a stone and not be thrown down.' {Matthew 24:1,2}
He warned them ahead of time about Cestius Gallus, leading the Roman Army who would make a thrust right up to the Temple Wall, and then for some unknown reason retreat, and not carry out his attack. That gave them all opportunity to flee into the hills. Those who didn't listen to Jesus warnings, were trapped in that City, when General Titus leading the Roman Army, arrived tearing up Ten Miles of surrounding Forest land, building a wall of pointed stakes all around Jerusalem. No one could get in, or out. Over a Million at that time put to the Sword. Four years after Cestius Gallus attacked in 66 ad! In 70 ad General Titus attacked.
20`When you see soldiers all around Jerusalem, 66AD- then you will know that it will soon be broken down. 21Then the people in Judea must go quickly to the hills. {Cestius Gallus} Those who are in the city must leave it. Those who are in the country must not come into the city.
22Those will be days of punishment. All that has been written in the holy writings must happen. 23 In those days it will be very hard for women who are to have a child. It will be very hard for mothers who have babies. There will be big trouble on the earth. God will show his anger to these people. 24They will be killed by swords or long knives. They will be taken away as prisoners to every country. 70AD- Jerusalem will be broken down by people who are not Jews. {General Titus} They will walk over it until the end of their allowed time." {Luke 21:20-24 WENT}
Although it's true at the end of the seven times, there would be a marked event occur, but it wasn't the end of the appointed times of the Nations, nor was it the time for the Christ to take Kingdom Power, his invisible presence, as is claimed.
I'm not going to bother about going into the mathematics of this seven times, however; it is true, that beginning in 607 BCE, and counting 2,520 years from that date puts you at the year 1914 - so something very siginicant, should have occured in 1914, and it actually did. Only not something any would grasp with the naked eye, and I don't mean the invisible presence of the Christ. That never occured, in spite of claims to the contrary. What did occur then? It had to be something noteworthy:
Recall all of the events the Christ foretold to identify the time period that would see his coming? Note what he said about those events:
8 "All these events are the beginning of birth pains." {Matthew 24:8 HCSB} These events in question began in the year 1914, but does the beginning of birth pangs mean the Baby is already delivered? The Governing Body of the Watchtower Soceity will tell us:Yes! "That is the case!" "Only this Baby is invisible!" They will have us believe!
We'll remember the scripture in Ezekiel made mention the Kingdom would not be 'as it was.' In other words, at that time when Jerusalem was destroyed, it was an earthly Kingdom; but when the one with the Legal right arrived, it would now be a heavenly Kingdom. The earthly Kingdom, Jerusalem, that pictured Jehovah's right to rule was brought low, the Gentiles, who were considered low, were put on high; and would maintain that High position until the one with the legal right came, at which time he would depose them from office and take the reigns of power himself, as prophesied he would.
Recall! I said I didn't agree with this following statement made by the Watchtower Society, and I'll explain now why I don't.
First re-read the statement:
"Thus in 607 B.C.E. a period of time began that Jesus Christ later referred to as "the appointed time of the Nations," or the times of the Gentiles." During these "appointed times" God did not have a Government to represent his rulership on earth.
19- "What was to happen at the end of these "appointed times of the Nations"? Jehovah was to give the power to rule to the one who has the "legal right." This one is Jesus Christ. So if we can find out when the "appointed times of the Nations" end, we will know when Christ begins to rule as King." {page 140} {you can live forever in paradise on earth}
They calculate those appointed times as to being, 2,520 years long, counting from 607 BCE. Telling us those appointed times ended with the installation of God's ruling King Christ Jesus. Telling us he was invisibly present in that year, and crowned as King of God's Kingdom.
Recall the events the Christ foretold to identify the time period he would come into Kingdom Power, and I made mention he told us that this was only the beginning of birth pangs of the Kingdom. You will recall I mentioned: "do the first or beginning of Birth pangs mean the Baby is deliverd?" As follows:
8 "But all this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come." {Matthew 24:8 NLT}
8 "These things are like the first pains when something new is about to be born."{Matthew 24:8 NCV}
So, the appointed ruler of God's Kingdom is telling us here, that he wasn't invisibly present in 1914 at all! The Kingdom had not even been Born, as yet. It was yet to come, as the birth pangs increased, until, as it says, 'something new would be born.'
As to why I don't believe those times have ended, and why their count didn't begin in 607 BCE. Those times happen to be running right at this very moment in time, and the reason why they are, is, satan has not been deposed as god of this World as yet. He is still holding that office. That office he holds belongs to the Christ, the future ruling King of God's Kingdom. While he holds that office he tramples on divine rulership. His Religious Organization Babylon the Great is still flourishing , trampling on the truth of Jehovah's word. Only when satan is chained and abyssed for the Thousand year period, and his Religious empire completely destroyed, will those appointed times end. So their count of time has to be inaccurate, being as it is still running right now. It could not have begun in 607 B.C.E. and ended in 1914 if it is still running right now., and it most certainly is.
We know the year 1914 did mark something momentous in human history, since that time prophecy did land exactly on that year, but what was it? Who would know more about the Bible than anyone else? Jesus! Correct? With that thought in mind, when Jesus said, 'these are only the beginning of Birth Pangs,' where do we suppose his mind was very probably focused? Would it not have been right here, in John's Revelation? When those Birth Pangs, or labor pains had first begun?
Following is the momentous event that occured in the year 1914, at the end of the seven times:
1 "Then I witnessed in heaven an event of great significance. I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant, and she cried out because of her labor pains and the agony of giving birth." {Revelation 12:1,2 NLT} Time for the Kingdom to be Born! But what happens, when it does come? John will go onto explain that, as well:
7"And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
12Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his
time is short."
13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child." {Revelation 12:7-13 NIV}
Notice! The Kingdom of God has now come! Jehovah's Christ now holds Authority as the reigning King. Jehovah's Heavenly Woman had now reached the end of her labor pains, and given birth to the Male Child. The one with the legal right had finally come! But Invisibly Present? No! He had actually come into Kingdom Power! He had, COME! He wasn't as the Governing Body teaches their followers, invisibly present in 1914! The main reason being, he hasn't even as yet COME! That heavenly Woman is still undergoing those pains of labor! We await her, to yet give birth to this Male Man Child. For the one with the Legal right to claim his right, and come Lord Jesus! Claim your Legal right!
When does the one with the Legal Right Come? Not even the one with the Legal right knew that, so how could any of us? Just knowing he's coming should be sufficient for us. Wannabe
28
The most frightening time in this Worlds History!
by wannabe in
1. watchtower
2. bible
does the bible supply us with any information, that might give us, at least, some idea when this frightening time period will begin?does it show us, in some way, just how frightening this time period will be, and just what is the main cause of it?

" [matthew 24:8 niv}.

what was it that actually marked the beginning of these birth pangs?
wannabe

The Most Frightening time period in this Worlds History !
Does the Bible supply us with any information, that might give us, at least, some idea when this frightening time period will begin? Does it show us, in some way, just how frightening this time period will be, and just what is the main cause of it? Perhaps, what causes it too begin? Is there some special event in this Worlds History that would trigger this time of World peril? Jesus pointed to that special event when he made the following statement to his followers in the first Century, after he had given then a composite sign of his coming, he said to them:
8"All these are the beginning of birth pains." [Matthew 24:8 NIV}
What was it that actually marked the beginning of these Birth pangs? What noteable event occurred in 1914 that marked that year as the end of the seven times Prophecy in Daniel? An event that wasn't observed by the human eye, but none-the-less occurred. Keep in mind, Jesus words: "These are the beginning of birth pangs." So, when this event occurred, it was merely the beginning of the Birth of God's Kingdom, not the actual Birth. It must go through many more pangs of Birth, before the Man-Child was Produced. Notice these following words:
"But all this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come." {Matthew 24:8 NLV} Notice how the New Century Bible words this:
8 "These things are like the first pains when something new is about to be born." {Matthew 24:8 NCV}
Is it reasonable to conclude from this that the Christ was invisibly present in Kingdom Power in the year 1914? Not according to the one who was to come into Kingdom Power it isn't! It was only the first of the pangs of Birth of God's Kingdom. What might have been on the mind of Jesus when he made this statement; seeing as he would know more about the Holy Writings than anyone? His mind would have had to be focused on this very special event in human History, mentioned somewhere in scripture. It would of necessity have had to be zeroed in on these following words in the Revelation he had passed on to John. Consider them:
1 "Then I witnessed in heaven an event of great significance. I saw a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon beneath her feet, and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant, and she cried out because of her labor pains and the agony of giving birth." {Revelation 12:1,2 NLT}
This is what Jesus was alluding to when he said there is 'more to come,' 'something new was being born.' Being Born! But not Born yet! Many more Birth Pangs to come, before the actual Birth of the Man-Child. God's Kingdom!
Many today believe that the time of World Peril that both Daniel and Jesus predicted are the same tribulation in both instances. Look closely! They are not the same! I'll show why they are not!
Compare what they tell us in both instances: First Daniel:
1"And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of distress, such as never was since there was a nation until that time. And at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that is found written in the book."{Daniel 12:1 DT}
Daniel is telling us here that when Michael stands up and takes Kingdom Power, then the time of distress he was talking about occurs. Now, note the words of Jesus on this:
20 "But pray that your flight may not be in winter time nor on sabbath: 21for then shall there be great tribulation, such as has not been from [the] beginning of [the] world until now, nor ever shall be; 22 and if those days had not been cut short, no flesh had been saved; but on account of the elect those days shall be cut short." {Matthew 24:20-22 DT}
It would, of course, APPEAR that both Jesus and Daniel are discussing the same tribulation, but reason on it for a moment. The Tribulation Jesus was talking about, was that period of World trouble brought about by the fulfillment of the composite sign he gave them; which constituted the birth pangs of the Kingdom, of which the anointed class was to be delivered out of or none of them would survive, so we know all of them are with the Christ at Aramageddon, and we'd hope they all did survive. {Revelation 17:14}
Daniel was another matter altogether. This would be the World tribulation brought about by the fall of Babylon, and the ensuing period of tribulation that follows that great fall. This would of course be brought about by Jehovah himself, when he turns the last ruling World Power against her, and she is totally destroyed. {Revelation 16:18,19; 17:16,17}
At some point during this interval, un-be-knowns to mankind in general, a War will be being fought in the invisible heavens, with satan and his demons being thrown down to this earth, and now notice what John has to say about that and just what is occurring when he is thrown down.
7"And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
"Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
12Therefore rejoice, you heavens
and you who dwell in them!
But woe to the earth and the sea,
because the devil has gone down to you!
He is filled with fury,
because he knows that his time is short."
13When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child." {Revelatiobn 12:7-13 NIV}
Notice? God's Kingdom has come into power. Jehovah's Ruling King is given Authority. Verse 13 tells you the Woman has finally given Birth to the Man Child. The tribulation Jesus foretold has ended, but now, look! satan is down! "Woe for the earth and for the sea." Now we come into the time of World trouble Daniel spoke about. Nothing like it, ever in this Worlds History! It's, "Woe, Woe, Woe, to those dwelling on the earth"... Revelation 8:13
"Nation against Nation, and Kingdom against Kingdom," as Matthew 24:7 is fulfilled. "The Sword of every Man turned against the Sword of his own Brother, as Ezekiel Prophesied. {Matthew 24:7 {Ezekiel 38:21} Jeremiahs Prophecy is fulfilled:
21 "I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign LORD. Every man's sword will be against his brother."{Ezekiel 38:21 NIV}
32 "This is what the LORD Almighty says:
"Look! Disaster is spreading
from nation to nation; a mighty storm is rising
from the ends of the earth." {Jeremiah 25: 31-36 NIV}
It will be somewhere during this World Battle, Jehovah will intervene, and Armageddon will be fought, to clean the earth of all of the trouble makers, and those who ruin it. {Revelation 11:18; 16:13-16;17:14}
The report Daniel gave about the great tribulation, was a far greater tribulation than Jesus foretold. The Most frightening! The final and complete end of this system of things. To make way for a new beginning!
We see from this, that Jesus had foretold events that would lead up to his coming; while on the other hand, Daniel had foretold events that would occur, after he actually did arrive in Kingdom Power. That time of World distress, that would occur, in the time of the end; that would overshadow the great tribulation Jesus had foretold, by far! Wannabe