Invisible Presence! Or COMING? Which?

by wannabe 10 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • wannabe
    wannabe

    Invisible Presence! Or COMING? Which is it?

    The Governing Body of the Watchtower Society, makes claim to being the anointed Brothers of the Christ. Being as that claim is common knowledge today, that is, to say, at the very least a very odd claim for them to make. Why do I say odd?

    Quoting from one of their publcations, "You can live forever in paradise on earth," they make this following statement, in part: "Jesus Christ began to rule as King of God's Heavenly Government in 1914" ... Page 141 Paragraph 21 - The reason this is an odd statement is because when the Christ was to take Kingdom power, he was to gather all of his anointed Brothers "from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to the other extremity." That is apparent from the words of Matthew at Chapter 24:29-31-

    So, was it to be true that the Christ really did take Kingdom Power in 1914, there would have been a drastic shake-up in that Organization in that year. Having very suddenly no one at the healm of control. All their leaders was it to be true they were of the anointed, would have all quite suddenly vanished into thin air. Strangely enough they are all still on the scene, all, but for perhaps a few who have already passed away in death. For them, claiming as they do to be being of the anointed class, should have known better than to even make such a claim as they do.

    The true anointed class would have known that they would be taken up when the Christ took his Kingdom power. None of them would have ever made a claim such as is made by the Governing Body. Now, here we have the the Governing Body, claiming to be anointed, but still on the scene 96 years later, after the King was already appointed as such, in the year 1914, according to them, that is. You don't suppose they are not what they make claim to being, do you? I'm thinking their idea of an invisible presence has befuddled their minds to the point they do not know, when the Master will arrive, or how, anymore.

    In this same publication mentioned, they also tell us, that, "the Greek word here Translated "Coming" is "Parousia" and it means presence. so, then, when the "sign" is seen, this means we would know that Christ is present though unseen, that he has already come in Kingdom Power"... Chapter 18 Paragraph 3 - Okay! They have told us that much! But what is it they haven't told us about this word parousia? From my own research:

    Question: "What is the Parousia?"

    Answer: "

    The Greek word parousia (pronounced pair-oo-see-ah) is a noun that means "a coming" or "a presence." As it is used in the New Testament, it can refer to any individual's coming or presence to a specific place or to be with specific people. For example, in 1 Corinthians 16:17 , Paul writes of "the coming of Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus." In 2 Corinthians 7:6 , Paul writes of "the coming of Titus." In Philippians 2:12 , it is used to refer to Paul's presence.

    Most importantly, however, if you were to do a search of the Greek New Testament, you would find that primarily this word refers to the Coming of the Lord Jesus. It can refer to either His second coming at the END of the 7-year tribulation period ( Matthew 24:27 , 37 , 39 ; Revelation 19:11 ff ), as the or to His coming to rapture His Church PRIOR to the 7-year period known tribulation ( 1 Corinthians 15:23 ; 1 Thessalonians 2:19 ; 3:13 ; 5:23 ; James 5:8 ; 1 John 2:28 ).

    So, the Parousia is the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and you have to look at the context to determine whether it refers to His appearing in the air to rapture or catch away the Church ( 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 ), or whether it refers to His second coming to Earth to setup His millennial kingdom." (Matthew 24-25; Revelation 19:11ff ; 20:4-6 ).

    The whole truth is, they have really not been telling all of us the real truth of the matter. They have been shading the matter to suit their own purpose, or their own personal private intepretation, of the year 1914. Can we say, that they have been dealing honestly, with the rank and file? Not according to what I just set forth here, they have not!

    Rather than play with Time Propcheies, or Hebrew or Greek words to establish a matter as the truth. As they do; should not the truth of God's word, be sufficient, to establish any matter as the truth, without using this showy display of very dubious knowledge; because at best, that's all it really is. {2 Coronthians 13:1}

    Using their own New World Translation Bible, let's see if we can unravel this very confusing subject they have created with their misleading interpretations. Beginning with, in their own Bible, 1 John 3:2-3 which informs us of this:

    "Beloved ones, now we are Children of God, but as yet it has not been made manifest what we shall be. We do know that whenever he is made manifest we shall be like him, because we shall see him just as he is." Interesting word, Manifest! I'll supply the definition using my on-line Dictionary, next:

    Manifest adj.

    Clearly apparent to the sight or understanding; obvious.

    See Synonyms at apparent.

    tr.v.

    man·i·fest·ed, man·i·fest·ing, man·i·fests

    1.

    To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal: "Mercedes . . . manifested the chaotic abandonment of hysteria" (Jack London).

    2.

    To be evidence of; prove.

    Someone might argue; but that's when they are resurrected to heavenly life." True! That would have application at his actual coming too. They would see him as he is at that time as well. For who would know better than them, how he was to appear? They are the ones who penned the information about just how he would appear in Kingdom Power. They would know much better than anyone else! His Coming, as the definition brings out would be clearly apparent to their sight or understanding. Plainly revealed to their understanding. Like a flash of lightning! They would know enough not to believe anyone, claiming to represent the Christ. They would listen to none making such claims. They would know just how their Master was coming:

    23 "And they will say to you, see here, or see there; do not go out or chase after them]. 24 For even as the lightning by its flashing shines from one part under heaven, to another part under heaven, so the Son of Man will be."{Luke 17:23,24 {NWT}

    No possible way in the World can the Governing Body of the Watchtower Society, be correct in their interpretation, that the Christ has an invisible presence. Whenever has anyone ever seen an invisible bolt of lightening?

    Keep in mind, I'm using the Governing Bodies own Bible, the New World Trasnslation, that they themselves use to support their interpretation, that the Christ was invisibly present in the year 1914; to prove their interpretation to be faulty, in serious error; for I will show using this same Bible, that rather than being invisibly present, in that year he is yet to come. To continue with Mark 13:26,27, we read: "And then they will see the Son of Man COMING in clouds with power and great glory. And THEN he will send forth the Angels and will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds from earths extremity to heavens extremity." Once again, we see he gathers his anointed brothers at his COMING. You cannot come with the clouds, if you're already invisibly present, now can you? Now verses 35,37- "Therefore keep on the watch, for you do not know when the Master of the House is COMING, whether late in the day or at midnight or at cockcrowing or early in the morning; in order that when he ARRIVES SUDDENLY, he does not find you sleeping." It would appear to me, that he will catch the Governing Body in deep slumber, as a matter of fact has done so, because his Sudden Arrival has not occurred as yet.

    Now, they did not know at what point the Master of the house was COMING, none-the-less, they have him ruling in 1914 as the King of God's Kingdom. Already Crowned and Throned!

    It does well to notice too, just at what time period the gathering of his anointed Brothers takes place. Matthew tells us, Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days, they would see the Son of Man COMING on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, and then the gathering of his anointed Brothers would be done. Did the Tribulation end in 1914, or was it just now on the horizon? When Jesus gave them that composite sign, was it all fulfilled in the year 1914? Only when the sign first became in evidence? Didn't Jesus say, "All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress." Some Bible translations render that, as the 'beginning of birth pangs,' which to my mind is more accurate under the circumstances. {Matthew 24:8} Didn't he give them the parable of the Fig-Tree, that showed his actual coming would take some time? He told them: "Now learn from the Fig Tree as an illustration this point: Just as soon as its young branch grows tender and it puts forth leaves , you know that summer is near. Likewise also you, when you see ALL THESE THINGS, know that he is near at the doors." Even yet! Is all of that sign in evidence? Do we see ALL OF THOSE THINGS as yet? No! We do not! But when we do, even then it will only be near, but still not here. That illustration alone that Jesus gave, shows very clearly the Governing Bodies interpretation of 1914 is in serious error.

    Jesus made it very clear, that his coming would be made known to everyone on this Planet, in these few following words:

    "Moreover, just as it occurred in the Days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man; they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, Woman were being given in marriage, until that day when Noah entered into the Ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all. Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot; they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying they were selling, they were planting, they were building. But on the Day that Lot came out of Sodom it rained fire and supher from heaven and destroyed them all." The SAME WAY it will be on that day when the Son of Man is to be revealed."

    31"When the Son of Man ARRIVES IN HIS GLORY, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 And All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left.

    34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and you gave me something to eat, I got thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you received me hospitably naked, and you clothed me. , I fell sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to me.'

    37"Then the righteous will answer him, with the words 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison go to you?'

    40 And in reply the king will say to them truly ,'I say to you to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my Brothers, you did it to me."

    41"Then he will say, in turn to those on his left, 'Be on your way from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' 42 For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat, I got thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger and you did not receive me hospitably. naked but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison but you did not look after me.' 44"They also will answer, when did we see you Lord, hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister you?'

    45"Then he will answer them with the words 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to

    {Matthew 25:31-46 NIV}

    one of these least ones, you did not do it to me."

    46 And these will depart into everlasting cutting off, but the righteous into everlasting life."

    Did You notice in this parable! Neither the righteous nor the unrighteous had known just whom they were dealing with. "When did we see you?" The Governing Body makes it a point to flaunt the idea that they are of the anointed remnant, and most today are keenly aware of that. So, they could never be the ones talked about in this parable.

    Notice the words of the Apostle Paul, as he reveals, the means of cutting off, these ones who have been cursed into everlasting fire, receive that cutting off, and from what source it comes from:

    "This takes into account that it is righhteous on God's part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you, but, to you who suffer tribulation relief along with us at the Revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful Angels in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength,' at the time HE COMES to be glorified in connection with his Holy Ones and to be regarded in that Day with wonder in connection with all those who exercized faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you." {2 Thessalonians 1:1-10}

    This word Revelation has a very interesting definition, especially as it applies here:

    1. Revelation:

    a.

    The act of revealing or disclosing.

    b.

    Something revealed, especially

    a dramatic disclosure of something not previously known or realized.

    2.

    Theology

    A manifestation of divine will or truth.

    "Manifest" also casts more light on this this, as we see from the following definition:

    man·i·fest (adj.

    Clearly apparent to the sight or understanding; obvious. See Synonyms at apparent.

    tr.v.

    man·i·fest·ed, man·i·fest·ing, man·i·fests

    1.

    To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal: "Mercedes . . . manifested the chaotic abandonment of hysteria" (Jack London).

    2.

    To be evidence of; prove.

    Paul mentioned 'at the time he comes he would be regarded with wonder.' Because his coming would be clearly apparent to their sight or understanding. Very obvious! Was it to be true he arrived invisibly in 1914, none of that could be true, because something not seen, isn't clearly apparent. Isn't obvious to the sight or understanding.

    No! The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, has not been given the true sense of the Holy Writings, and their insistence that the Christ was invisibly present in the year 1914 shows that they have not known, or realized, the truth of the divine will, that the Christ has yet to come! They desperately need that dramatic disclosure, of something to this very day, they do not know, or realise. That is very probably because they think so much of themselves, they feel they do not have to listen to any, who just might know a lot more than they do

    While they continue with their false idea the Christ was invisibly present in the year 1914, let them explain away the following words of Jesus, who I might add, doesn't agree with them at all.

    23 "And they will say to you, see here, or see there; do not go out or chase after them]. 24 For even as the lightning by its flashing shines from one part under heaven, to another part under heaven, so the Son of Man will be."{Luke 17:23,24 {NWT}

    In conclusion then! The significant event that marked 1914 was not the invisible presence of the Christ in Kingdom power! It was merely the beginning of birth pangs of the Kingdom. Jehovah's Heavenly Woman John tells us, is pregnant, crying out in her pains to give birth. John tells us in verse four, that she is 'about to give birth.' satan is pictured there, as standing before the Woman, that when she did give birth he might devour her Child. Before that Male Child was to be born War would break out in heaven, and Woe for this earth and for the sea of people, on it. satan is throw down, and the time of this Worlds greatest trouble would begin. Christ then takes Kingdom power, as the Woman gives birth to the male child, and his words at Matthew 24:21,22 are fulfilled; the great tribulation breaks out, to be cut short by divine intervention. When that period of foretold tribulation begins all will know the Christ is in Kingdom power. He will have, at that time finally come! Read carefully Revelation 12:1-17- and Daniel 12:1-

    That Heavenly Man-Child could not have been born in 1914! First, only when the Birth pangs of the Kingdom, reach completion, or run their full course, the Heavenly woman's Man Child will be delivered ! Then the King will finally come! That Heavenly Woman is still to this very day, suffering those labor pains. We await the Birth of the Kingdom, still, yet to Come! {Matthew 24:8}

    The very Bible Translation the Governing Body uses to support that falsehood, I have used to show, that it is not a true Bible teaching at all, but is, a lie! Invisibly present in 1914? Absolutely and positively not! We all, now, await his Coming! Which is what the Governing Body and their followers should be doing, and teaching. Wannabe

    So, invisibly present in 1914? I don't think so, and neither should any of you! Just how, and in what way will Jesus be revealed to all mankind, to their sorrow?

    Keep this point in mind, as I continue! Who would know exactly whom all of the anointed Brothers of Christ are, that are scattered to the four winds, and just who is it that does the gathering of them? It is the Christ himself is it not? In similar fashion! Who does the Bible tell us does the separating work between the Sheep and the Goats? That too is the Christ, is it not? The Governing Body makes claim that they are gathering this great crowd of Sheep-like ones into their ranks; but how would they know the difference between a Sheep-like one and a Goat-like one? Anyone, and everyone that wishes would be allowed to join ranks with them, without exception. As long as they toe-the-line, that is, and accept everything they teach without question; and are totally submissive to the Elder Arrangement. Step off, or over that line; your out of there P.D.Q.

    Notice now Matthews words on the separting work, and just whose doing it; and when it is done:

  • shamus100
    shamus100

    I am an expert on the subject.

    Q: Invisible Presence! Or COMING? Which?

    A: Yes.

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    I agree with Shamus100.

  • shamus100
    shamus100

    See? I have quite a following here.

    Next question please! Simon, please lock this thread immediately as it has been answered.

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    I second that.

  • Hortenzie
    Hortenzie

    Hopefuly (visible) coming. I'm not good at "seeing" invisible things.

  • yknot
    yknot

    Yes Wannabe it is nothing more than 136 years of revisions to explain away failed professions of 'the end' and why followers and converts should dedicate themselves and finances to the WTS's delusions of granduer of Jesus appointed authority.

  • cofty
    cofty

    I wrote an article on parousia and sent it to Brooklyn when I was an elder, it was very respectful; almost to the point of sichophantic - they df'd me!

    The word also had a particular meaning that referred to a visit of a ruler. It is clearly used in this context in the NT and to call it invisible is just a way of covering up failed expectations, 1844, 1878, & 1914

  • wantingtruth
    wantingtruth

    wannabe

    I invite you to see some thoughts on "coming"

    wantingtruth

  • Chalam
    Chalam

    Hello wannabe,

    Shouln't that be [invisible] presence?

    The bible itself speaks of only the presence.

    There are numerous verses which speak directly against the heresy of Christ returning invisibly, even the words of Jesus Himself!

    Matthew 24:26-27 (New International Version)

    26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

    Blessings,

    Stephen

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