Posts by DrJohnStMark

38

Does God believe in burning People?

by ssn587 in

reading the book, you can live forever in paradise earth, on page 81 end of paragraph two it reads, "this raises the question: did almighty god create such a place of torment?

well, what was god's view when the israelites, following the example of peoples who lived nearby, began to burn their children in fire?

he explains in his word: "they have built the high places of topheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing i had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.".

DrJohnStMark

You are surely overstating things by saying YHWH was the most cruel god.

It's been stated somewhere in WT literature that the gods of other nations were much less perfect in their ways (more like imperfect humans) and less omniscient (almost as helpless like us) than YHWH. If that is true, then YHWH would be one of the most cruel gods.

You would not call a lion killing a zebra cruel, but seeing killer whales have fun with sea lions might make you wonder. The notion of cruelty somehow correlates with intelligence and other capacities.

In the human world just turning your back and leaving someone to suffer and die if you could help him is considered to be cruel... how about in the world of gods?

22

I never believed in demons

by drew sagan in

for the entire time i was a jw (1999-2007) i never believed in demons.. a few times i remember this getting me into small confrontations with jws.

a jw would talk about how demons were scary and powerful.

i would argue that i've never seen a demon, and that to be affraid of such things was silly.

DrJohnStMark

Why would belief in demons make you believe more in the God of Brooklyn than in the God of Vatican? In more liberal sects of christianity the role of demons appears not to be so prominent... or control by fear overall.

22

I never believed in demons

by drew sagan in

for the entire time i was a jw (1999-2007) i never believed in demons.. a few times i remember this getting me into small confrontations with jws.

a jw would talk about how demons were scary and powerful.

i would argue that i've never seen a demon, and that to be affraid of such things was silly.

DrJohnStMark

I did believe in demons and 'true stories' of them were floating around as long as I remember... I was a born in JW. Not surprisingly, things happened I and my sisters then interpreted as resulting from demonic influence. We never wanted to be left alone in the house. Our parents and some family friends fed us those stories and the 'truth' of them was confirmed in the meetings at the kingdom hall and in the WT books... also in the books targeted at children. I also remember too well the booklet Unseen Spirits—Do They Help Us? Or Do They Harm Us? Later, those 'encounters' in part also kept us in JWs, strengthening our beliefs.

It seems so amazing now what kind of a world we then lived in. Any neighbor or school teacher or kid in the block could have an invisible demon sitting on his/her shoulder.

16

Penguins and Polar Bears.

by creativhoney in

witnesses believe the earth was created.. we were also taught that there is no such thing as evolution.each was created according to its kind.. we were taught that prior to the flood, there was a canopy over the earth and the whole world was temperate, sub tropical.. if this is so.. why polar bears?

and why can penguins shut off the valves to their feet, so they don't freeze.

and why does the awake!

DrJohnStMark

An anaconda will in the paradise be hugging the cabbages before swallowing them.

11

Deuteronomy 23:1

by elder-schmelder in

deuteronomy 23:1.

[a]if a mans testicles are crushed or his penis is cut off, he may not be admitted to the assembly of the lord.. .

does this mean that he can get 12 way into the assembly of the lord, since only 12 was cut off?.

DrJohnStMark

In this the Watchtower tells the truth: He is "cut off from life".

34

Psychology of Losing Faith

by daniel-p in

jw
friends

i found this a very interesting article, concerning the psychological stresses involved in losing ones' faith (the title doesn't really do it justice):.

an atheist in the pulpitpublic identity and private belief are never more at odds than when a preacher loses his faith.

by bruce grierson, published on january 01, 2008 - last reviewed on april 11, 2008james mcallister, a 56-year-old lutheran minister in the midwest, was working on his sunday sermon one thursday afternoon last summer.

DrJohnStMark

daniel-p: Belief in the "live forever" doctrine was one of the most pysychologically distressing things for me to go through, as well.

On the intellectual side, I now think that, exactly because there may not be any God behind this all, life is more valuable than ever: It is something extraordinary. On the emotional side, as I said, some work remains to be done.

If life was something that God could create and destroy at will anywhere he/she wants to, would it really be valuable? My way of thinking about the world is now very much based on science, yet I think it may be that the existence of life is not so trivial at all. My daughter's smile reminds me of that every day.

34

Psychology of Losing Faith

by daniel-p in

jw
friends

i found this a very interesting article, concerning the psychological stresses involved in losing ones' faith (the title doesn't really do it justice):.

an atheist in the pulpitpublic identity and private belief are never more at odds than when a preacher loses his faith.

by bruce grierson, published on january 01, 2008 - last reviewed on april 11, 2008james mcallister, a 56-year-old lutheran minister in the midwest, was working on his sunday sermon one thursday afternoon last summer.

DrJohnStMark

daniel-p: "They're either in complete denial," he says, "or they're completely comfortable with the idea that they have a pastor who's a fraud, as long as he puts asses in the seats."

After I left (and I almost had got in the 'JW clergy') I heard some local JW elders had commented on it: "He'll be back." Fat chance.

On my side, there's been a difficulty to comprehend that we do not live for ever. As a born in, I was so deep in the JWism... we were not supposed to die and no loss was to be critical. I've been now out of the org for a long time and sometimes a few years pass without thinking too much about the past but still, when I for some reason get worried about my personal future or foresee some permanent loss, then for a while I do feel like an ex-jw... so were those JW friends right? I do have learned a lot about the psychological mechanisms behind this and the rational side of me can convincingly tell the other side why I am feeling like that. First, after I quit the JWs, I decided to forget about all wtBtS for good. Now I do recognize that it is going to be part of me and it is a bit easier. I accept I'll be back on these boards again and again but never in the org (or any other organized religion). And I can understand their comment.

38

Does God believe in burning People?

by ssn587 in

reading the book, you can live forever in paradise earth, on page 81 end of paragraph two it reads, "this raises the question: did almighty god create such a place of torment?

well, what was god's view when the israelites, following the example of peoples who lived nearby, began to burn their children in fire?

he explains in his word: "they have built the high places of topheth, which is in the valley of the son of hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing i had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.".

DrJohnStMark

PSacramento: Burnt flesh stinks, how are they gonne get rid of it?

But the God of Bible loves that: And Noah builded an altar... and offered burnt offerings on the altar. And the Lord smelled a sweet savour... (Gen.8:20-21). We also should, as images of God, shouldn't we (we're no more perfect but...)?

25

Why does every prophecy has to have two (or more) completions?

by teel in

you know the standard jw doctrine, babylon the great, fall of jerusalem, kingship of david, jonah's life you name it, it has to have a "bigger completion" later.

some of these are actually mentioned in the bible - jesus being the bigger jonah, revelations mentioning the fall of babylon the great many years after the actuall babylon fell, jerusalem falling to babylon was just a precursor to jerusalem falling to the romans, which was just a precursor to... (what now?

meh... is old age creeping upon me?

DrJohnStMark

drew sagan: the Revelation book... I tend to believe that the Watchtower purposefully makes those books confusing.

In an old WT book on the Revelation, the 'Babylon book', there was a drawing of the second beast (13:11). The book sure induced a lot of confusion and still, if you just randomly open the book somewhere and read the text aloud now, it's like reading the Mad magazine... try this at home! Anyway, I was a small kid when this book was studied in the congregation, but I still remember one 'highly intellectual' discussion by 'mature christians' after the actual study about whether or not the beast purposedly resembled R.M.Nixon or not... I was so impressed. If I never was a JW, I would not have this kind of hilarious memories, would I?

22

NOAH'S FLOOD vs PYRAMIDS

by elder-schmelder in

noah's flood (about 2300 bce).

pyramids build:.

pyramid / pharaohreignfielddjoserc.

DrJohnStMark

elder-schmelder: Looks like to me that there was no flood.

Or perhaps there were no pyramids. "If the facts are against your theory, just get rid of them."