Posts by Larsinger58

49

Found a scripture where Jesus is clearly manipulating people

by cptkirk in

it's a scripture that is very well known (at least among witnesses) , relatively well known.

it is clearly manipulative, and the irony being that i've seen an elder use it for his own manipulative purposes as well....in a similar circumstance that jesus used it in.

when you look at it again, you may not have seen it this way, but you will now.. i am not trying to put jesus on trial here, simply trying to point out something that is very obvious, and yet most people probably never stepped back and realized what he was actually doing here.. it is mark 6. they are stumbling over jesus (spiritually stumbling), so did he say a prayer for their hearts to be opened?

Larsinger58

Hmmmm

21

Understanding the futility of TRUE and NOT TRUE as assertions of fact

by Terry in

the following is a sentence.. the sentence contains an assertion of fact.. here is the sentence: .

"this statement is not true.".

is it a statement of fact?.

Larsinger58

Short version: we waste our time using the words "prove" and "truth" when the object of the description is not accessible to the senses.

Religious conversation is in and of itself a "trick of semantics".

I think God addresses this by providing at least one modern "miracle" that many experience to add a degree of "reality" to what happens in our minds. For all that is in the Bible and in the universe to perceive God, sometimes you do need a miracle to reaffirm. In the case of modern times, God provides the Bible and the fulfilled prophecies is what impresses us of God's power to see into the future. Case in point, the precise activities and description of the U.N. For for the elect, God has provided the "sign of the son of man." This sign is mentioned at Matthew 24:29-30. It appears in the sky and causes the elect to weep and mourn.

We know it appears to the elect because the WTS put it in their cryptic artwork in the Revelation book:

faceinhand

The image is from God. It shows a huge face in the clouds. The huge face is created so that you can see that the eyes are closed. The face is of an infant so that could convey the concept of a "son." But also the face is made up of black clouds because the messiah is dark complected at the second coming.

But if you don't know this image of the sleeping/dead black child is part of the "sign of the son of man" then it means nothing. It's just a curiosity. If you know it is a sign seen by the elect, then you know WHY it is in the Revelation Book and it also confirms that the WTS is quite aware of what the sign is and what it means.

So a lot depends on how much you know. That goes for languate too. The secret socities use language to hide things as well. Like the term, "bar-be-cue". Bar means son, as in a bar mitzvah. Cue is a reference to Cush and thus to black people. So "bar-b-que" means "son of cush." It reflects that blacks in Europe were eaten as high "CUI-sine" for centuries. Apparently, some of that got transferred over to the antebellum South and killing blacks for sport and then eating them was part of the Southern culture at one point. Apparently, black flesh tastes sweet, like pork and a common practice was to pepare a black infant in a meat pie. Terms like "honechile" and "sugar baby" reflect on the sweetness of black flesh as compared to white flesh.

In the esoteric world of secret socities, the CUBE is linked with Christ and the TRIANGLE with Satan. Thus the well known symbol of the compass and square simply represents how Satan will conquer Christ and "bruise him in the heel" which means cutting off his foot at the heel symbolically.

compass and square

This simply represents the triangle dominating the square. Or the pyramid dominating the cube. The nation of Israel is based on the CUBE. The 144,000. The 12 tribes of Israel made up of three tribes on each side. The triangle represents the woman. The pyramid the breast. Or the triangle of the woman's pelvic area.

So since you're dealing with language and usage and mind control and all that, you may as well also know how the secret socities use symbolism and language to hide secrets and meanings.

For instance, its not a mistake that Hanzel and Gretal are described as eating from a "gingerbread house." The gingerbread man represents the black man, who was a favorite disch of Euorpeans for a while, that is, black children who were put into meat pies. Meaning? Meaning when some issues are hard to deal with, historians put some of these details in fables.

or take the word: "buck." That's a term Southerners often applied to black male slaves. But a buck is otherwise a male deer, an animal that is both hunted as well as eaten. So what that says is that black men were once killed for sport and then eaten; he was like a buck to the slave owners.

Or take the term, the "faithful and discreet slave." Now in the 7th Volume put out by apostate JF Rutherford, he tried to claim that CT Russell was that "wise and faithful servant" as well as the "angel of the congregation of Laodicea." That was the cultic nature of the WTS back then until it stopped working. So in 1927, JF Rutherford wanting to inherit the mantle of Russell as the FDS claimed that assigning that to an individual was "creature worship." Only now it applies to the GB. So why is that now not creature worship? The god has simply changed from an individual to a group. The average witness thinks that if they stick with this FDS they will get life. If they rebel against them, they will be cast out. By adopting this title, the FDS has become a god to the witnesses and they no longer pay any attention to what the Bible says.

So, yes, LANGUAGE and WORDS are very fascinating. But why not explore all aspects of their usage, including occult usage?

There are "many gods and many lords" yet only "one god and one lord." Both statements are true.

21

Understanding the futility of TRUE and NOT TRUE as assertions of fact

by Terry in

the following is a sentence.. the sentence contains an assertion of fact.. here is the sentence: .

"this statement is not true.".

is it a statement of fact?.

Larsinger58

ROFL! This is sooo intellectual. But it is a trick of language and concept. In the Bible, for instance, we read that there is only one god and one lord in one place, but in another that there are many gods and many lords.

Sometimes Akenaten is referred to as a "monotheist" but some people will claim that belief in any other god makes you a "polytheist" thus just admitting that "Satan is the god of this system of things" makes you a polytheist.

Therefore, there are many statements that are both true and false, depending on the interpretation and concept. That's because words can have different meanings.

Take for example if I told you, "I stopped drinking 10 years ago." Is that true of an ex-alcoholic? Well, yes, if "drinking" is understood to refer to alcohol and not water or Diet Dr. Pepper!

So in this case, someone who loves word games has set up a false premise. They use a complex premise that has no meaning and then try to apply it to something dissimilar to it and create a conundrum out of it. Here's a famous example of Greek logic:

The Tortoise challenged Achilles to a race, claiming that he would win as long as Achilles gave him a small head start. Achilles laughed at this, for of course he was a mighty warrior and swift of foot, whereas the Tortoise was heavy and slow.
“How big a head start do you need?” he asked the Tortoise with a smile.
“Ten meters,” the latter replied.
Achilles laughed louder than ever. “You will surely lose, my friend, in that case,” he told the Tortoise, “but let us race, if you wish it.”
“On the contrary,” said the Tortoise, “I will win, and I can prove it to you by a simple argument.”
“Go on then,” Achilles replied, with less confidence than he felt before. He knew he was the superior athlete, but he also knew the Tortoise had the sharper wits, and he had lost many a bewildering argument with him before this.
“Suppose,” began the Tortoise, “that you give me a 10-meter head start. Would you say that you could cover that 10 meters between us very quickly?”
“Very quickly,” Achilles affirmed.
“And in that time, how far should I have gone, do you think?”
“Perhaps a meter – no more,” said Achilles after a moment's thought.
“Very well,” replied the Tortoise, “so now there is a meter between us. And you would catch up that distance very quickly?”
“Very quickly indeed!”
“And yet, in that time I shall have gone a little way farther, so that now you must catch that distance up, yes?”

“Ye-es,” said Achilles slowly.
“And while you are doing so, I shall have gone a little way farther, so that you must then catch up the new distance,” the Tortoise continued smoothly.
Achilles said nothing.
“And so you see, in each moment you must be catching up the distance between us, and yet I – at the same time – will be adding a new distance, however small, for you to catch up again.”
“Indeed, it must be so,” said Achilles wearily.
“And so you can never catch up,” the Tortoise concluded sympathetically.
“You are right, as always,” said Achilles sadly – and conceded the race.

Now this might seem logical as presented, but it is not REAL. Why not? Because if Achilles could travel 10 meters to every 1 meter the Tortoise could travel, Achilles would immediately take him over in the next ten meters. That is, if Achilles traveled ten times as fast as the tortoise, he would take him over because Achilles would have traveled 20 meters by the time the tortoise traveled a little over 1 meter.

So in the case of "This statement is false" we have an example of a non-statement. There is no true-false statement here. You're applying a non-statement to something of a different context and thus it is a false premise.

One common misconception for JWs is that they call themselves the "one true religion" which, in fact, that would not be as accurate as saying they are the "one truest religion."

Thus you could say "JWs are the one true religion" and that would be false. But if you said they were the "one truest religion" that would be true -- but only up until 1996. Even so, that's speaking generally.

Even so, mind games for extreme intellectuals are fun, as long as they don't get confused.

24

Snarky Question

by earthfire in

so i have a question that's been bothering me for years.

i know this is extreme but i think you'll see where i'm going with this.

so ex-jw's are evil we're on "satan's side" as my dad told me and we aren't worth a hello.

Larsinger58

It's all messed up and can't be fixed on this side of Armageddon.

Basically, the world under Christ for 1000 years will gives us a historical background of what it is like to be perfect and under one religion and one governement. Even so, look how many rebel against Christ once the 1000 years is over and Satan is let loose again? So all that experience during the 1000 years, plus all the previous close to 6000 years of man's history prior to that under imperfect conditions, myriad of different governments and Satan's influence will all factor in on JUDGMENT DAY. All the outside factors and influences plus affect of imperfection will be removed from individual situations and they wll be judged for their true heart condition. The elect (1,440,000; only 144,000 are natural Jews making up 10% -- Isa. 6:13) will be people who have gone through all the trials of humanity so they will be able to show compassion and understanding. just as a former alcoholic makes a better counselor and will show more understanding to another alcoholic than someone who has never been an alcoholic.

So in the end, anyone truly "righteous" will get life. If the ratios are consistent, thus, the majority of mankind up to 2/3rds of everyone will get life. This is based on, given freedom of choice and free moral agency, that 1/3 of the angels rebelled against God, so I suspect a similar ratio when it comes to mankind.

Basically, one third of today's population will be chosen to live under the millennium of Christ. So everyone has a 1 in 3 chance of surviving Armageddon and living during the millennium. Everyone has a 2 out of 3 chance of surviving Armageddon, but only one third will live on to enjoy the millennium. The other third will die out of old age, not having qualified to enjoy the millennium, but not necessarily a wicked person either! Sort of like Moses making that last mistake and being denied entry into the promised land, etc.

8

4 years ago: the CO opinion about memorial invitation

by Gorbatchov in

4 years ago the co in our congregation turned down in the most direct manner the invitation for the memorial by internet.. brothers who say "we can invite the public for the memorial by internet" are apostates, they are acting against the brothers of christ.. today the wts invites every one by using jw.org.. the next time i see this co, i will confront him with his idiot verdict.

.

Larsinger58

Just in passing, the MEMORIAL of Christ's death was to continue until he arrived. Once he arrives, he eats it one final time, then there is no need to memorialize his absence. So if you believe Christ really arrived in 1914, then then the significance of the memorial is spurious!

Christ actually arrived in the flesh in 1992, December 25th. He celebrated the Memorial in Temple City, California, in a Mexican restaurant. The tortillia chips served as unleavened bread.

"The last will be first and the first last..." meaning many invited into the kingdom will get sealed after Christ has arrived, meaning after Passover 1993. This normally would see a huge increase among the "other sheep" celebrating the Memorial. But the true anointed ones who understand Christ arrived in 1992 and celebrated the last passover on April 6, 1993, don't celebrate the Memorial anymore, because that service is now meaningless!

The Memorial is a farse whether Christ arrived in 1914 or 1992! True anointed ones do not celebrate the Memorial after 1993.

13

The Annointed

by earthfire in

so a question i always wondered about growing up was how do the annointed know that they are annointed and how does that conversation go down when you approach the elders about "being chosen".

how do they prove that they get to taste the wine and eat the bread?

i knew two sisters who were "annointed" and now that i've been out for quite a while i look back and think, did they know that they were lying or did they truly believe?

Larsinger58

The "anointed" know who they are.

15

The Euthyphro dilemma destroys belief that the Bible is inerrant

by yadda yadda 2 in

divine command theory allows christians to rationalise that unconscionable actions caused or commanded by the biblical god are morally justifiable.

for example, god commands the genocidal killing of whole national groups such as the amalekites, including killing all the children (1 samuel 15).. but by taking the side of the euthyphro dilemma that there is an objective, anterior morality that even god is subject to, one is forced to concede that such atrocities could not have been commanded or sanctioned by a perfectly moral god.

therefore, any passages of scripture where morally unacceptable actions are attributed to god in ancient scripture cannot be believed.

Larsinger58

The HOLOCAUST came about upon the children of the Israelites because of the time when the Israelite women were temple prostitutes and killed the children of the surrounding nations by burning them up in kilns that were located on the rooftops. Because of that, Jerusalem was called a "city of bloodshed." The Holocaust mimics what those prostituting women did. The transports into Jerusalem represented the transporting of children into Jerusalem. The crematoriums reflect how those children were soon turned into ashes and dark smoke, just as the Jews were burned up and turned into dark smoke. When smoke was seen on the rooftops in Jerusalem, they knew another child had been sacrificed. When the smoke rose from Chelmo and Trablinka, everyone knew another transport of exterminated Jews were being burned up.

Ironically, some of the Jews themselves in response to how could God permit this to happen to anyone, but especially the Jews, admit they understand this was because of what their ancestors did.

From a WTS point of view, this means that Hitler for a while was God's own instrument of judgment.

FAST-FORWARD TO RIGHT NOW: Many are given a chance to worship and obey God. Many will choose death rather than choose God. That's the way it goes when you have free moral agency.

As far as the Amalakites go, they were going to die anyway due to Adamic sin. The important thing is getting a chance of eternal life on Judgment Day.

16

OH POOR RUTHERFORD! Not!

by clarity in

just wanted this for my records and for the newbies who don't know .

that rutherford & co never "fulfilled the prophetic" - 3 yrs in prison!.

http://www.freeminds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=441:did-j-f-rutherford-lie-about-being-exonerated&catid=27:rutherford&itemid=342.

Larsinger58

OMG! I can't believe it. The copy I have is the 1917 edition! So I have the copy that still has those pages!

Here's one quote, clearly Rutherford giving his personal view (Page 250): "If you tell me that this war is fought for the integrity of intrnational law, I must ask you why it is directed only against Germany and not also against England, which is an equal, although far less terrible, violator of covenants between nations?"

ROFL! If ever there was a politically oriented rant! The WTS started dabbling in political banter during a war and so they got indicted. Now they are turning the story around saying they should have stuck to their guns and not removed those pages -- pages any JW today would know never belonged in any religious publication of theirs in the first place. Witnesses are now totally apolitical! Not the case in 1917, obviously.

BTW, Rutherford always took personal credit for everything written whlie he was president. This was unlike Russell who, much like today, did not take personal credit for much of the publications although he signed off on articles in "Zion's Watchtower." When Rutherford died, this embarrassing practice was ended so that no individual now gets credit for anything coming out of WTS headquarters.

12

May Watchtower makes the same mistake Moses did

by leaving_quietly in

probably not the first time this has happened, but the w13 5/15 at least twice made the same mistake that got moses killed by god.. p.8 par.

2: "with heartfelt zeal, we invite "anyone that wishes [to] take life's water free.

" (rev 22:17).

Larsinger58

Hmm, interesting. I think, indeed, many witnesses will not be able to enjoy the milllennium, but will die out after armageddon. But in general, these are righteous people, so though not enjoying the millennium, they will get life during Judgment Day, which follows the millennium. They will be resurrected along with the rest of all who have died.

Likely 1/3 of the world's population will die at Armageddon. 1/3 will survive and die out of old age so as not to completely destabilize the world's infrastructure. This should be enough time to hae newly born ones replace them. And 1/3 will live on after Armageddon to enjoy the millennium. The 1/3 that survive Armageddon will those who offer no political threat to God's kingdom, non-violent persons who just proved unworthy of the millennium. Many JWs who were not paying attention during these times will fall into this category.

Keep in mind, when the "ten virgins" are representative of the anointed among JWs, only half of them qualify for the kingdom -- the other half get rejected.

128

Jesus and the Mosaic Law...

by mP in

ive had many chats with tec and shes always fun but i must disagree with her angle on jesus and the mosaic law.

she always claims that jesus repealed the law.

ive asked for many times and she has yet to give the exact quote.. perhaps the most damning scripture for tec and friends is mat 5:18 where jesus unequivacably says the laws is perfect and will last forever.

Larsinger58

Jesus meant the Law Code, the things that would be fulfilled by him as part of God's plan. For example:

Passover. Jesus is the passover lamb who must be sacrificed at the ninth hour when the lambs are killed. Indeed, Jesus was killed at the ninth hour as part of the law's fulfillment.

The Sabbath. Of course, Jesus fulfills the sabbath by becoming king for 1000 years as part of the 7th day of a 7000-year long creative day.

The wave offerings. There are two wave offerings, representing the first and second coming of Christ. Of note, the first wave offering of first fruits is without leaven, meaning Jesus becomes flesh in a perfect body. The second wave offering is a loaf from the house that is baked with leaven, simply meaning Jesus' body at the 2nd coming is an imperfect one. Jesus arrives the first time to become a sacrifice, the second to become a king-priest.

So in these ways, Jesus fulfills all these things of the Law Code and thus the significance of these things last forever.