Posts by inbetween

36

New Pattern regarding Science in the Awake

by konceptual99 in

reading the first couple of awakes for 2013 i think there is a pattern developing.. they have the regular "could it have happened by chance" article on something amazing in nature but they are also interviewing a scientist who is also a witness.

this is a pretty interesting tack on a number of levels.. firstly it is sending out the implicit message that "look, this educated person accepts creation, the flood and every other account that is at odds with generally accepted science, so that should give you confidence that you are right as well".

secondly, as a magazine designed for public comsumption is suggests to non-witnesses that there are many well educated people who accept the bible.

inbetween

no doubt the society backed off from a more liberal approach in the 90`s, is getting harder again on higher education.

The brother/sisters with some kind of privilege I know startet their university education during or short after those "liberal" years, so I agree, for a family today to support one childs higher education will pretty sure at least provoke a visit from local elders, the rest depends, how strict the local BOEW views the matter.

On the other hand I know a sister, being invited to visit bethel, only because she studied and finished Law at Universitiy, as a babtized sister btw.

A Bethel were physicians, laywers and who knows whoe else with higher education is working and is needed.

Anyway, the whole stance regarding university education revealed through articles (mostly in the study edition) or in talks is one of the most outstanding and disgusting hypocrisis in the org.

36

New Pattern regarding Science in the Awake

by konceptual99 in

reading the first couple of awakes for 2013 i think there is a pattern developing.. they have the regular "could it have happened by chance" article on something amazing in nature but they are also interviewing a scientist who is also a witness.

this is a pretty interesting tack on a number of levels.. firstly it is sending out the implicit message that "look, this educated person accepts creation, the flood and every other account that is at odds with generally accepted science, so that should give you confidence that you are right as well".

secondly, as a magazine designed for public comsumption is suggests to non-witnesses that there are many well educated people who accept the bible.

inbetween

good analysis,

its a mistake, even the WTS likes to point out, to rely on other "smart" people in order to believe something.

Even smart people often believe weird things (see book: Why people believe weird things - Michael Shermer), the reason is not because of scientific proof or evidence, but lies in a psychological background.

anyway, even though higher education for witnesses is frowned upon, and lately became more restrictive, one does not automatically loose the privilge, they just will be questioned about their motives in connection with their overall spiritual appearance. In my area, I know elders, pioneers, ms, who went to university as babtizes witnesses, and it did not effect their privilege. But maybe in Europe things are more relaxed regarding higher education, I guess.

This whole new take in the new magazines, as you rightly pointed out, is a PR-campaign, trying to cover up their really extremely sceptical stand towards higher education, which you hear at conventions, meetings etc...

1

another possible reason the the new teaching GB = faithful slave

by inbetween in

sitting yesterday through another mindnumbing meeting, when the experiences of the yearbokk was being discussed, i noticed another mention of governing body, written in capitals.. then it dawned on me, maybe one reason for changing the understanding of the slave class could be, that the term governing body is not mentioned in the bible, which could become a weak point, especially defending against "apostate" ideas and accusations.. basically shifting the name to fds would mean to have a scriptural support somehow.. i also remember, in my days as a full believer, i never doubted the fds doctrine, but i was kind of disturbed by not finding the term gb in the bible.. on the other hand, back then, gb was not mentioned that often in the literatur as it is today.. .

inbetween

Sitting yesterday through another mindnumbing meeting, when the experiences of the yearbokk was being discussed, I noticed another mention of Governing Body, written in capitals.

Then it dawned on me, maybe one reason for changing the understanding of the slave class could be, that the term governing body is not mentioned in the bible, which could become a weak point, especially defending against "apostate" ideas and accusations.

Basically shifting the name to FDS would mean to have a scriptural support somehow.

I also remember, in my days as a full believer, I never doubted the FDS doctrine, but I was kind of disturbed by not finding the term GB in the bible.

On the other hand, back then, GB was not mentioned that often in the literatur as it is today.

45

Post a picture of the Faithful and Discreet Slave!

by cedars in

yes, we can call them that now, without fear of being disfellowshipped for apostasy.. .

http://www.jw.org/en/news/events-activities/annual-meeting-report-2012/.

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/governing-body-says-we-are-the-faithful-and-discreet-slave.

inbetween

grandpa munster , hilarious, I almost laughed out loud at work....

25

Snares of the Devil - Questioning the motives of those who pioneer

by Quarterback in

jw
friends

the wt for today, can't remember exactly what paragraph, stated the dangers of the tongue.

it went further to mention that we wouldn't want to question the motives of a sister who was appointed in the congregation as a pioneer.

there was even a picture to add emphasis.. who on earth questions that?

inbetween

and what about elder-meetings ? How often are false motives put into actions of the flock ?

He/she is working overtime because of materialism, he/she is missing meetings because of loving pleasures more than god, etc..

18

organisation necessary ?

by inbetween in

this weeks meeting, there was one talk about the need for an organisation, taken from the reasoning book.. the usual stuff, how would preaching be possible wiithout org, or the command (?

) from hebrews to gather together etc... .

however, i thought, the fact, that esp.

inbetween

This weeks meeting, there was one talk about the need for an organisation, taken from the reasoning book.

The usual stuff, how would preaching be possible wiithout org, or the command (?) from hebrews to gather together etc..

However, I thought, the fact, that esp. the preaching work needs an organisation proofs that they are not supported by a higher power. If god (in case he exists) really wanted a group of people to preach some good news, why does he need a human construct like an organized religion ?

Why not direkt individually with holy spirit his people ? That would actually be proof of his existence and his approval of this particular group of people. However, everything around the preaching work of JW, even if it might be an achievement on its own, can be explained being done with human efforts. Anybody who says different, I would challenge, to just stop the reporting, the pioneer-title etc,and see, how many witnesses keep going out as much as now...all these things are human techniques to get people working, a guilt and reward system, nothing divine to spot there...

My point: The existence of the org actually proofs, God is not with them...(quite the opposite of what JW are taught)

32

The best way to help any JW out is to remain active

by Most Noble in

attacking from the outside will always prove to be unproductive.

it is more effective to remain inside the domain while raising people's consciousness and letting them see all the flaws behind the farce.

i have tried it and i have gotten 47 people out in 6 months, while i am still seen as a publisher in good standing.. .

inbetween

oh, btw you also said:

"Creating website and the rest is just a bunch waste of time"

I have to strongly disagree, in JW-world, where critical or independent thinking is frowned upon, and expressing concerns openly easily ends up in a which hunt, the anonymity of the internet has been helping a lot of people, including myself, to learn about TTATT.

18

JW saved by Bovine Blood Product

by cantleave in

not sure if this has be posted before, i apologise if it has... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1383586/cows-blood-saves-life-crash-victim-world-procedure.html.

doctors have saved the life of a woman car crash victim with the first ever use of cows blood.. tamara coakley, 33, rejected a life-saving conventional blood transfusion because of her jehovahs witness faith despite being close to death.. but in a worlds first procedure, a synthetic blood substitute made from cow plasma was used to revive the patient just as her heart was failing through severe blood loss.. the success of the procedure could help combat the worldwide blood supply shortage.. mrs coakleys religion permits the use of blood substitutes and doctors in melbourne, australia, flew in ten unites of the haemoglobin- based experimental plasma called hboc-2-1 from the united states where it is being developed by the military.. the cows blood product was painstakingly administered over two days to mrs coakley, who had been in a medically-induced coma following a horrific car collision last october.. after a few close calls, including a bout of pneumonia, the patients haemoglobin levels more than doubled.. mrs coakley was overwhelmed by the lengths doctors went to save her life and respect her personal choices.. more...ultimate health cocktail: scientists devise blend of 13 fruit juices so good for you it could lower heart disease risk .

im glad something positive could come out of it.

inbetween

"Mrs Coakley’s religion permits the use of blood substitutes and doctors in Melbourne, Australia, flew in ten unites of the haemoglobin- based experimental plasma – called HBOC-2-1 – from the United States where it is being developed by the military."

interesting, comes from the military, or even worse, probably developed by real doctors who enjoyed higher education, one of Satans snares....I feel like puking with soo much hypocrizy....

anyway on the hand, I´m happy that she could be saved, and that in some way, the whole blood doctrine is being undermined so much already...

32

The best way to help any JW out is to remain active

by Most Noble in

attacking from the outside will always prove to be unproductive.

it is more effective to remain inside the domain while raising people's consciousness and letting them see all the flaws behind the farce.

i have tried it and i have gotten 47 people out in 6 months, while i am still seen as a publisher in good standing.. .

inbetween

Though I´m still in not on my will, but due to family ties, I see the point, that it is for sure easier to help others, when you yourself are considered in good standing. Occasionally I carefully drop something here and there, but still, til now, I could not help anybody to leave, unless I would have risced my cover. One time a brother, whom I started to talk more open, even mentioned that he was shocked about some of my statements. It showed me to be more careful and also, that he is not ready, even though he himself mentioned some big points, that bothered him.

Most noble, while I see, where you coming from, and actually if you really stay in for helping others out (indeed most noble) I can by no means imagine, that in 6 months 47 people react like this, without you being cornered as apostate or at least dangerous association..

the org is like a dictatorial regime with enough traitors and spies, that one simply cannot trust...

17

Do You Think"Any" Jehovah`s Witness Understands The Concept Of Cognitive Dissonance ? Are They Capable Of Comprehending The Meaning ?

by smiddy in

i would appreciate your thoughts on the matter , with examples demonstrating their ignorance of the concept.. smiddy.

inbetween

never heard of it before coming to this "apostate" site ;-)

JW sometimes "feel" it though, I remember thinking, that some things do not add up or make sense, but in this case the "waiting for Jah" or "blaming youself" mode kicks in...