inbetween

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Posts by inbetween

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  14

  Hillarious "Counsel" from Platform -Classic

  by lepermessiah in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i got this from a close friend -.

  this past weekend, the family attended the circus assembly.

  i skipped it, and didnt get a hard time for not going, which was a first.. anyway, my family didnt want to tell me about a couple of points from the d.o.

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  inbetween

  I thought, on stage they are not supposed to name directly certain books, movies etc because of lawsuits ?
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  8

  conversation with wife

  by inbetween in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just a short info: my wife is not aware of me being here, and its not the time to tell her yet.. however, i time and again raise questions or even disagreement with some teachings of the wts, and she readily accepts them, but still believes, it is "the truth".

  but the other day, she talked about the anointed, the number going up, instead of down, and even saying, that maybe the number 144.000 is not literal after all, but maybe symbolic like everything else in revelation.. i said, i would not be surprised, if "new light" comes sooner or later.. she said, that the term "new light" seems overused,.

  i realised my chance, and put this thought deeper, example "generation" teaching, how it went from new, to newer, and back to older teachings etc... .

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  inbetween

  good point OTWA: the canyon might hopefully not be as deep. Because not even a year ago, I myself had this canyon. While questioning some teachings, I still thought, Jehovah will sort it out.

  However, it was only a matter of a short period of time, until this "canyon" was gone....it was not quite that big....
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  18

  want proof that the GB votes on doctrine

  by Aussie Oz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like to find proof of this without refering to ray franz's c.o.c.

  material.. is there anywhere a charter, a letter, a document that states stuff like a majority vote needed etc?.

  oz.

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  inbetween

  cantleave: yes, thats the reality about it, the bible as guideline is only in theorie. I remember an elders meeting, where I brought up the point, that a certain case was perhaps not a disfellowshipping offense, since the wording in the scripture does not support this conclusion. After some strange looks, the objection was not even discussed...
• 
  8

  conversation with wife

  by inbetween in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just a short info: my wife is not aware of me being here, and its not the time to tell her yet.. however, i time and again raise questions or even disagreement with some teachings of the wts, and she readily accepts them, but still believes, it is "the truth".

  but the other day, she talked about the anointed, the number going up, instead of down, and even saying, that maybe the number 144.000 is not literal after all, but maybe symbolic like everything else in revelation.. i said, i would not be surprised, if "new light" comes sooner or later.. she said, that the term "new light" seems overused,.

  i realised my chance, and put this thought deeper, example "generation" teaching, how it went from new, to newer, and back to older teachings etc... .

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  inbetween

  just a short info: my wife is not aware of me being here, and its not the time to tell her yet.

  however, I time and again raise questions or even disagreement with some teachings of the WTS, and she readily accepts them, but still believes, it is "the truth"

  But the other day, she talked about the anointed, the number going up, instead of down, and even saying, that maybe the number 144.000 is not literal after all, but maybe symbolic like everything else in Revelation.

  I said, I would not be surprised, if "new light" comes sooner or later.

  She said, that the term "new light" seems overused,

  I realised my chance, and put this thought deeper, example "generation" teaching, how it went from new, to newer, and back to older teachings etc..

  I was surprised at her opening up in this way...

  Later she said, that she feels bad, like an apostate, by questioning the GB..., but doesnt Jehoivah want us to do that ?

  I readily agreed, and did not push the matter further.

  I know, it is a little step forward, well actually it was quite a leap, but I know, that she will regret it, and step back once again....

  How should I continue ?
• 
  18

  want proof that the GB votes on doctrine

  by Aussie Oz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like to find proof of this without refering to ray franz's c.o.c.

  material.. is there anywhere a charter, a letter, a document that states stuff like a majority vote needed etc?.

  oz.

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  inbetween

  never thoght about it myself, and it is such a crucial question. When I learned about the voting, that was the final seal on my conviction, that they are not directed in any way by holy spirit.

  However, if you aks a JW, maybe an elder, they may think, it is like it should be in an elder meeting, where they pray for holy spirit, then discuss the scriptures relevant, and then come to a decision, EVERYBODY agrees.

  What does not always work in elder meetings, surley it works for the GB. Thats how they may explain it....
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  28

  New CO 70 yrs old, "youre not doing enough" school. Sigh

  by monkeyman in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  got our new co. old school guy, 70 yrs old.

  mo is "youre all not doing enough".

  sigh.. three yrs of this asshole..

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  inbetween

  guess we have been lucky last two turns, relatively young and even at times funny CO, who really tried to be encouraging and refreshing, of course, being limited by the org-rules, it is only an attempt, but still....

  I wonder, if they, being rather smart individuals, see throug some things and struggle themselves...but how to find out ?
• 
  46

  UN scandal

  by inbetween in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  lately i did a lot of reading regarding the un scandal, the org being a ngo for 10 years.

  i tried to read both sides, the comments on jwfacts.com, as well as the defense at jehovahsjudgment.co.uk.. and then the endless discussion on topix.com between thirdwitness and alanf and others.. while i am sure, the way the org handled the whole situation, especially after the article in the guardian, was plain wrong, instead of openly confessing a mistake, it was done secretely and only after inquiry, and made it look like a cover-up.. .

  however, considering the whole issue, i think it comes down to one question:.

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  inbetween

  alanv: yes, no doubt, this was hypocritical behaviour, because they accuse other religions from doing what they end up doing, but the main question is: Is it wrong from a biblical standpoint (acc. to WTS teaching) to become a NGO associating with the UN?

  Black sheep: I think, that was partially the problem contributing to the confusion, "red hering" and "strawman" tactics...

  Gordy: Good point with YMCA, I guess here in Europe we have no expereince with this group, so I was not aware of any issues,

  cantleave: I guess, in real life are many gray areas, the failure of the WTS is to try to regulate all this gray areas for the rank and file, but for themselves they take the freedom to do whatever pleases their purpose.
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  46

  UN scandal

  by inbetween in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  lately i did a lot of reading regarding the un scandal, the org being a ngo for 10 years.

  i tried to read both sides, the comments on jwfacts.com, as well as the defense at jehovahsjudgment.co.uk.. and then the endless discussion on topix.com between thirdwitness and alanf and others.. while i am sure, the way the org handled the whole situation, especially after the article in the guardian, was plain wrong, instead of openly confessing a mistake, it was done secretely and only after inquiry, and made it look like a cover-up.. .

  however, considering the whole issue, i think it comes down to one question:.

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  inbetween

  Lately I did a lot of reading regarding the UN scandal, the org being a NGO for 10 years

  I tried to read both sides, the comments on JWfacts.com, as well as the defense at jehovahsjudgment.co.uk.

  and then the endless discussion on topix.com between thirdwitness and alanF and others.

  While I am sure, the way the org handled the whole situation, especially after the article in the guardian, was plain wrong, instead of openly confessing a mistake, it was done secretely and only after inquiry, and made it look like a cover-up.

  However, considering the whole issue, I think it comes down to one question:

  let me explain:

  Acc. to our interpretation of the bible, in the future God will destroy false relgion, governments and the wild beast (UN)

  so all those institutions will be enemies of God.

  Jesus told his followers to be no part of the world, however, he does not take them from the world, so this means, Christians have to have cetrain dealings with the world and all its institutions.

  The question is: How far can these dealings go, without being defiled by the world ?

  or on other words: To what extent can a Christian be involved in worldy affairs, and at the same time supporting the kingdom ?

  I will look at some areas, 1th century, and today, how things concerning this world are handled:

  1) first Christians:

  Paul explained in Romans 13, that Christíans have to obey the superior authorities (pay taxes, etc)

  Paul also gave the example of establishing legally the good news, he made use of the legal system of the Roman world.

  He appealed to caesar for example. He enjoyed protection from Roman soldiers. He repsected people in authority.

  However, he stayed neutral in political affairs.

  2) Today,

  Christians pay their taxes, even benefit from governmental programs.

  Some Christians work for the government, end this may require of them, to pledge support of some sort, even give an oath or simlar things.

  They will not participate actively in politics though.

  Same with false religion, while not suppirting false worship, some may have no objection in visiting churches, even to pay for entrance , knowing their money may be used to upkeep the pagan buildings.

  They say: I do not support false worship, I just make business, I want something from them (visit a church, buy some itmes) , so I give in exchange. Its business, not support.

  So here it comes to the affiliation with the UN:

  Was it wrong for the WTS to become an NGO, in order to benefit from UN (maybe not the stupid library argument, but maybe to help legally establish the good news )

  Does it mean, the WTS supported the political course of the UN, or was it just a "bunsiness deal", like I give something for gettiung soemthing ?

  Like somebody benefits from governmental programs, even though all the governments are in satans hand ?

  I am not an apologist, I just try to put things in the right perspective.

  Sure, there is lot of discussion, how much support for the UN was required from the WTS to become an NGO. After reading hours of material from both sides, the whole issue is rather a bit blurry.

  Or should we ask another question: Is becoming an NGO associating with the UN one of the ways to legally establish the good news ?(like Pauls example, this may include "friendly" terms with Satans organisation) or is it friendship with this world, that is condemned in Gods word ?

  Just some thoughts, maybe I am completely on the wrong track, so please share your ideas.

  I am open for any correction, and welcome any input.
• 
  84

  question for theMadJW and other Wt apologists

  by isaacaustin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  on what basis do you make the claim that the leadership of the jw's, aka governing body, is the organization god is and has been working through continuously since 1919?.

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  inbetween

  most JW dont know or care much about the 1919 thing, I never took it too serious, and when I treid to dig deeper, it didnt make any sense either.

  for most its a couple of points that identify the true religion :

  no trinity, soul, hellfire

  preaching work

  Jehovahs name

  love among themselves

  abstaining from war

  etc..

  since the GB is guiding an Org, who does fulfill these points, therefore they must be chosen by Jesus...
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  50

  The Caring Elders

  by cantleave in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would be interested in your opinion of the following:.

  a friend told me about an incident that had happened in a neighbouring congregation.

  she told me that a sister from the congregation needed to get back to work after a meeting but discovered that she was boxed in.

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  inbetween

  if I insist in carrying a beautiful vase for you, and I drop it, who`s fault is it ?

  or by extention,

  if I offer to give you a ride, and I make an accident, would I be able to blame it on you ?

  I think both morally and legally its the elders responsibility.

  even if she asked him to, if he sees a problem with the task, he has to refuse, but if he agrees, he takes responsibility, no doubt.