Posts by inbetween

26

Observation -- Posters Don't Seem Clueless

by Band on the Run in

jw
friends

i'm impressed with sophisticated thinking on this site.

after all it is an ex-witness site.

i wonder what changed in the former witnesses.

inbetween

there are certain things you just normally never question:

for example, you would never question those who raised you are your biological parents, unless !!! something happening from outside makes you question....for example that your mother was unfaithful, or that your father came to know your mother when you were already born etc...

among those things as a born in is the claim, that WTS is Gods only org. Unless something "outside" happens, you never question this. You may realize some things do not fit, but in your mind you make them fit, and explain them away, since you have no doubt in WTS being Gods channel.

According to my observations (please take it at what it is, a single viewpoint) it even seems that those born-ins with a higher IQ even seem to resist doubts or problems more than others, since they find ways, to explain away many failures of the WTS and to excel in being an apologist.

57

To all lurking JW elders

by Mickey mouse in

jw
friends

come on in, the water's fine.

you may even realise you have close friends and family here.

.

inbetween

thanks TheLoveDoctor

its true, venting here helps keeping sanity while being still in...

57

To all lurking JW elders

by Mickey mouse in

jw
friends

come on in, the water's fine.

you may even realise you have close friends and family here.

.

inbetween

couriousconfused, welcome !!!

The deeper you are in something , the harder it is to get out.

I serve as an elder as well, and I still try to sort things out.

learning many things here and on other websides, it was and still is a liberating and the same time disturbing process.

In my mind, there is an ever changing list of pros and cons of JW. But what I am fully convinced after a lot of reading is, that the claim of being Gods only channel of communciation just doesnt add up. There is soo much nonsense (among valuable things) that we have been taught and force to believe, its almost incredible. On the other hand, there are people, I truly care about, and I have the feeling, as being a member of the conscious class, i can soften the load for them. And in my case, an exit is not possible either, due to family reasons. However, I consider steppping down seriously, just working out the plan and time table (this year, next year, depends...)

One advice please: Do not get scarred at some comments of posters here. While I try to understand their feelings, its not always fair and balanced, what people say here, but just view it at what it is: Their opinion. not more and not less.

But the forum here really shines bright, when certain weird things appear, like the guy from Bethel calling to sixscreens, and people, even though against the WTS religion, express their sentiments and doubts about such conspriacy theories.

So far, I have not been involved in a JC since my awakening. Most I attended in the past though, were individuals that commited fornication and were repentant. I felt like helping them more than judging them. But I always felt uncomfortable. Who knows, what the future holds, but being at an JC might be a breaking point for me. Definetely I could not attend on a case of "apostacy", but this seems anyway very unlikely to happen here.

PM me if you like, its good to know somebody in the same situation.

inbetween

310

Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 in

had a good look into the doctrine, beliefs and practices of jws and to be honest, i don't really see anything wrong with it at all.. it's biblical and i've had such an eye opener the past year or so reading some of their books and magazines .

is there really any real reasons why i shouldn't want to get involved further?

:-).

inbetween

anonymous4:

go ahead, study with them, use the counsel in the first few paragraühs of the first chapter of "Bible teach" book to your advantage, and keep asking question.

Listen to their answers, even come here and post them, get the other side, then, and only after that, make up your mind.

I wished, when i studied with my parents, babtized at 16, I had the freedom and opportunitiy to just to that, I would have never become a witness,

The quest for the truth, if it exists as such, is not an easy one, and by no means completed by hearing only one side of the story.

Remember, witnesses have the answer for almost everything, which at first glance looks impressive, but dont stop there.

eveluate, critical rethink their answers, and you perhaps see most of it is either nonsense, inconsistent, illogical or at best just one interpretation among many...

58

ex-elders, present elders, and sexual abuse survivors or their families

by Lady Lee in

help needed on this thread.

lady lee- who are you, and what's your story?.

madjw thinks the wts' policy is sufficient to deal wtih cases of sexual abuse of children.

inbetween

the real reason for this problem, at least im my opinion, lays within the training and education, elders receive.

Normally, you would think, anybody getting to know something nasty as child abuse would go to the police, and try to protect other children as much as possible (by informing other parents etc)

elder on the other hand are

1) burdend with lots of work for the WTS,

2) time and again they are trained to do everything according to "mother", if youre not sure, look into publication and flock book, and then ask either CO or Bethel. Do not rely on yourself.

So when presented with a case like child abuse, the elder will try to finish this "work" and try to hide behind "mama" meaning to handle the case according to regulations.

Then they have a good conscience....its rare that elders really care about victims in such a situation, let alone use their common sense.

The WTS trained puppets, not responsible older men !

13

a "bloody" question - components vs. fractions

by inbetween in

the official wt rule on blood is, whole blood and the four primary components are forbidden, fractions from those are conscience matter.. now its clear, that the medical world only uses the term fractions.. its also clear, that there is no direct bibilical reason for dividing blood into permitted components and forbidden fractions.. .

however, there is one argument of apologists, that has at least some value, if the premisse is true:.

the problem with components is, that when they are extracted, they still contain small amounts of all other components, so they still resemble whole blood, only the percentage is different.. an example to illustrate (simplified):.

inbetween

To be more specific, if the plasma has microscopic amounts of erythrocytes then when that plasma is processed to render cryoprecipitate and cryosupernatant those erythrocytes will be found distributed in that cryoprecipitate and cryosupernatant.

Marvin Shilmer

That nails it down for me, thank you.

13

a "bloody" question - components vs. fractions

by inbetween in

the official wt rule on blood is, whole blood and the four primary components are forbidden, fractions from those are conscience matter.. now its clear, that the medical world only uses the term fractions.. its also clear, that there is no direct bibilical reason for dividing blood into permitted components and forbidden fractions.. .

however, there is one argument of apologists, that has at least some value, if the premisse is true:.

the problem with components is, that when they are extracted, they still contain small amounts of all other components, so they still resemble whole blood, only the percentage is different.. an example to illustrate (simplified):.

inbetween

thanks for all the answers:

Marvin shilmer:

you said:

Cryoprecipitate and cryosupernatant are the result of a thermo-mechanical fractionation of plasma. The result of this process is to separate a select globulin rich plasma solution from a select globulin poor plasma solution. The rich solution is termed cryoprecipitate and the poor solution is termed cryosupernatant. The cryoprecipitate is about 1-2% of the original volume of plasma. The cryosupernatant is the left-over 98-99% of the original volume of plasma. Together these to products represent the sum total of plasma, and Witnesses can and do accept both these products.

May i ask a technical question to this:

When plasma, which is "contaminated" by traces of other components, will be fractioned in Cryoprecipitate and cryosupernatant what happens with those traces ? Do they disappear during this process or are they still somehow in those seperated solutions of Plasma ?

thx

7

gb members - part of a local congo ?

by inbetween in

to all with bethel inside information:.

normally the brothers serving at bethel are also connected with some local congregation.

in my area, the brothers in bethel support different congregations in their city.. how is this in new york ?

inbetween

To all with bethel inside information:

Normally the brothers serving at Bethel are also connected with some local congregation. In my area, the brothers in bethel support different congregations in their city.

How is this in New York ? And especially are the members of the GB also supporting local congregations, and maybe giving parts from the podium there as well ? Or are they excused and just busy giving talks at conventions or thinking about new rules for their followers ?

just curious..

13

a "bloody" question - components vs. fractions

by inbetween in

the official wt rule on blood is, whole blood and the four primary components are forbidden, fractions from those are conscience matter.. now its clear, that the medical world only uses the term fractions.. its also clear, that there is no direct bibilical reason for dividing blood into permitted components and forbidden fractions.. .

however, there is one argument of apologists, that has at least some value, if the premisse is true:.

the problem with components is, that when they are extracted, they still contain small amounts of all other components, so they still resemble whole blood, only the percentage is different.. an example to illustrate (simplified):.

inbetween

the official WT rule on blood is, whole blood and the four primary components are forbidden, fractions from those are conscience matter.

now its clear, that the medical world only uses the term fractions.

its also clear, that there is no direct bibilical reason for dividing blood into permitted components and forbidden fractions.

However, there is one argument of apologists, that has at least some value, if the premisse is true:

The problem with components is, that when they are extracted, they still contain small amounts of all other components, so they still resemble whole blood, only the percentage is different.

An example to illustrate (simplified):

whole blood: 30% red blood cells, 30% platelets, 30% plasma, 10% white cells.(I know its different in reality, just for arguments sake)

after extraction, lets say red blood cells, they consist now of: 90% red cells, 4% platelets, 4% plasma, 2% white cells.

so we see, the actual percenetage of each components varies after extraction, but still is there, therefore even a primary component as the red cell still contains ALL of bloods parts, therefore still somehow is whole blood.

my question: is the premisse, that one component(either red, white cell, plasma, platelets) after seperation still contain parts of the other 3 components ?

If the answer is yes, we know at least some reason for this WT stance.

However it raises other questions:

1) Why was this reason never published in the literature ?

2) What if there is a method to extarct a clean (100%) component ? Would it then be allowed ?

3) Anytime we eat meat, we also eat blood. WT says, this does not matter, because if the meat was proplerly bled, there is no reason to go to extremes. Would this principle not apply to seperating blood components ?

Your input is very welcome...thx

46

Today's Watchtower study shows how desperate they are

by Mickey mouse in

it seems as though at least one article in every issue of the study watchtower is devoted to reinforcing the governing body's authority.

this from pargraph 10:.

10 christ provides loving oversight of his congregations on earth by means of appointed elders.

inbetween

the lesson in the parable is for the slave, to behave right and responsible, not like the evil slave a few verses later.

The WTS turned it into a lesson for the "household" to obey the slave !!!