Posts by diamondiiz

16

Generation Change

by garlic81 in

jw
friends

i know there was an article on john barr's comments at the annual meeting this year.

i've posted the reference below.

i'm wondering if they are thinking of changing the belief back to that some annointed alive in 1914 will be alive when the tribulation starts?

diamondiiz

I didn't realize it was in print, I guess if I realy feel like researching they new light I can read the article - do I really want to?

But this explenation doesn't mean shit, with this light one could say that the last days started with Jesus's death as the old generation overlapped the new generation and by some odd twisted logic the younger generation of anointed carried the thought of generation tha Christ spoke of. How confusing is this? Are the old farts going to make the explenation so illogical that rank and file won't even bother meditating on when crap they're being forced to swallow? Maybe.

13

Number of Christians in First Century

by garlic81 in

jw
friends

do you know if it is stated in any wt publication approximately how many christians they thought were alive in the first century from 33ce onward who had the heavenly calling?.

i found one web-site http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txx/numberch.htm that estimates the number to be 500,000. does that seem right?

if so the 144,000 number would've been far exceeded back then.

diamondiiz

I had this discussion before:

Acts 21:20- "After hearing this they began to glorify God, and they said to him: “You behold, brother, how many thousands of believers there are among the Jews; and they are all zealous for the Law"

word murias - means a ten thousand; by extension a “myriad” or indefinite number: - ten thousand.

literal translation is "many ten thousands" or "many myriads"

you can compare other scriptures with the same greek word:

Luke 12:1 - "12 In the meantime, when the crowd had gathered together in so many thousands that they were stepping upon one another, he started out by saying first to his disciples: “Watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy"

Acts 19:19 - "Indeed, quite a number of those who practiced magical arts brought their books together and burned them up before everybody. And they calculated together the prices of them and found them worth fifty thousand (pente murias) pieces of silver."

Acts 21:20 - "After hearing this they began to glorify God, and they said to him: “You behold, brother, how many thousands of believers there are among the Jews; and they are all zealous for the Law"

Heb 12:22 = "But YOU have approached a Mount Zion and a city of [the] living God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels"

Jude 1:14 - "Yes, the seventh one [in line] from Adam, E′noch, prophesied also regarding them, when he said: “Look! Jehovah came with his holy myriads"

Rev 5:11 - "And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads(murias murias) and thousands of thousands"

Rev 9:16 - "16 And the number of the armies of cavalry was two myriads of myriads(duo murias murias) : I heard the number of them."

-------

From Christian Scriptures it would apper there were more than 144,000 in the first century alone. One can argue that God didn't first pick all 144k but chose them randomly throughout the ages but another good arguement is, where is there a clear teaching that there are two classes of Christians? Why does 144k need to be litereal as WTS teaches? Where is the preaching of paradise in the bible? The preaching was of Christ not paradise! As bible isn't truely clear on 144k topic, one can speculate on a lot of things but when it comes to watchtower and their original teachings, I would doubt anything that they initiate as truth and double and triple check everything they say. As you see even the New World Translation translates "thousands" in various way and is not as consistant as wts claims that their bibe is.

54

JW's Defend 607 BCE Teaching!

by tryingtoexit in

jw
friends

my father (who's an elder) just sent me this link...and i'd like to get yall opinions on it before i call him back:.

apostates and other opposers argue that jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 bce, but in 587 bce, and provide what they claim is archaeological evidence to support this.

if 607 bce is wrong, then the seven times prophecy ending in 1914 ce would be wrong also.. .

diamondiiz

WTS is absolutely right on 607 because Jehovah and Jesus trust them - and we know all this because watchtower says so :)

The whole educated world is wrong including State of Israel with the most powerful spy agensy but not uneducated gb who were only wrong about how many dates? umm 606,1799,1874, 1878, 1914,1925,1975 and few more miner dates. That's right we should trust few old farts who have a direct channel of communication with God and that's because they say so as they're the most brilliant bible interpreters on the planet.

I guess those that don't want to see past the cult mentailty will never do.

86

"THE SPIRIT THAT NOW OPERATES IN THE SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE"

by mrsjones5 in

jw
friends

.

diamondiiz

pjschipper:

"I've done the research! I read both of Ray Franz books"

- Reading Ray's book is no research as it is only an easy way out, how do you know Ray didn't make all that up without double checking it? I've read Rays book after doing my research and after disassociating with wts and as good a book it is, it doesn't replace personal research into wts from their own publications, court documents and other sources. You call "bad apples" who are the same group that that call others sons of disobedience! These "bad apples" are the same group who decieve their flock, these are the same people who tell you half truths and present a lie as a truth! The "bad apples" you speak of were not innocent from the start so I ask you when did their dealing change so they can be looked upto as faithful steward? I know it wasn't in 1919 not even 1970s, I'm sure they were not chosen during 1990s not after 2000, so when is this channel blessed by God more than any other sect out there?

All religions lead their flock according to their leaders and they all decieve their followers in one way or another, wts has accumulated more dirt on itself within 130 years than most others. I don't remember catholic encouraging people to sleep together or have abortians or encouraged murder. So what that wts teaches morality, many other churches do the same. So they encourage reading the bible but only with the aid of their own publications - so what's new here? Might as well be a Mormen and read a book of Mormen since it's same thing as reading a bible when your aid book overwrites anything you may find contradictory with your present belief thus encouraging reading a bible really invalides the suggestion as really what wts teaches is that you should only get your spiritual food from their publication and if you follow their reasoning you can double check quotes in the scriptures to support wts logic. So instead of calling all of us sons of disobedience maybe you can direct that comment to your governing body who claim to be the direct channel of communication and part of faithful and discrete slave except they don't consult any of the other 9000+ so called anointed for any suggestions but make all the decisions themselves!

86

"THE SPIRIT THAT NOW OPERATES IN THE SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE"

by mrsjones5 in

jw
friends

.

diamondiiz

Pj : I thought you were going to use your head and learn about wts but it seems you're still closed to realization that wts is NOT God's organization but is a fraud. GB are bunch of jack asses who are so arrogent that they go out and preach they are backed by Christ and God! What proof is there? what they're saying is what anybody on this planet can say and if they have blind followers that will accept their vomit then great but anyone with any intelligence that will examine them will realize that they are nothing but another men run religion full of themselves and full of crap. For anyone to say that whoever speaks against wts or GB is speaking against GOD is totally wrong and in fact has cult mentality which cannot reason on it's own and needs to break free from the cult to even see half clearly because what you wrote above is totally nonsense. If anything GB follow themselves of the angel who turns himself into and angel of light and decieves all those that follow that one - GB are blood guilty men who are responsible for death of thousands of inocent witnesses, they have incited persecution on their own while they hide behind walls. Too bad Rutherford was released from prison because that ass should have stayed there and would have caused less misary than when he got out. I can't believe you come here and don't even examine the facts about wts. Do research on Malawi and Mexico scandal and please tell us your view of gb who is supposedly backed by Christ and God because if God has no problem of seeing his poor black worshippers raped, tortured and murdered while blessing deception of Mexican worshippers then that is not the God that is presented in the bible. GB is scum of the earth in my books and I have and will speak against them because they have nothing to do with goodness and rightiousness.

14

And we dare question the gb

by booby in

this is from an e-mail site (and yes, i think it is as ludicrous as the rest of you will).

just passing on a quick thought.... .

maybe most of you are aware of the situation in honduras, a central america little country.

diamondiiz

I doubt they banned religious gatherings. Can't see Catholics stopping from going to church so if that's the case why would they ban wts religious services? Just because wts doesn't call their gatherings a religious service but a meeting doesn't mean the army would storm in and arrest everyone.

So what are they going to do with khs? Sell them and leave it at family worship? Hey that's a great idea, there is no more need for kingdom halls and if they do that here they can cash out and just make the followers continue with the imminent end at the family level while still sending money to Brooklyn. Maybe one day it will all fold and nothing left will be found of gb as they and probably their legal dept will take a permenant vecation on Caymen Islands and the end would have arrived for the entire wts society :)

66

Everyone Please Enter, I'm New Here

by tryingtoexit in

jw
friends

i've been lurking in the shadows of this forum for about 6 months or so.

i'll try to be brief here, but i apologize in advance if this is not "brief enough" for you.

anyways i'm a 27 year old african american young man, i was born and raised a jehovah's witness.

diamondiiz

Welcome,

You did some research which is good but ask yourself what proof do you see for God to choose Russell as his representative here on earth? If you see evidence you don't need to do any more reseach, but if not, then go to Rutherford and as yourself is old Joe acted as he was blessed with God's direction? hmmm

So if your answer is no than you're not like Satan leaving a "holy" dwelling but are leaving a discusting place. Remember bible speaks of Satan transforming himself into an angel of light and doesn't watchtower look similar to that description without examining it deeper?

If you can find origianl Russell books get your wife to have a read. I foud Thy Kingdom Come an eye opener and I think that's the best book for evidence against dates and other things that Russell thought and taught(my personal opinion). Make her curious and get her to read it, and see what she thinks.

Whatever you decide make sure you make an informed decision because if you don't you will regret it later. Research, research, research. I can't tell you what your conclusion should be but facts will prove to your beyond the doubt what you already know about wts. Ask yourself "How do I know GB is appointed besides them telling me so." What is GB record throughout the last 130 years as an org (I know gb was only since 60s/70s)

Be careful how your present wts info to your wife, use ONLY wts publication or legal court documents so she can't say it's apostate.

hope some of these idea help

28

Newly fading and having morbid thoughts about dying....is that normal?!

by 2pink in

jw
friends

i have been having doubts for years about the org, but it's mostly been just the past couple of months that it's really all unravelled for me.

i'm at that stage now where i don't know what i believe about anything...esp about what happens when you die.. and maybe it's just cause i never had to think about death before (was always countin' on that resurrection in paradise earth!

), but lately i can't stop thinking about it!

diamondiiz

I think about not dying but coming to realization that I will die. It had to do with wts programming that kept on repeating telling us that we won't die. Coming to realize that wts is full of shit and as reality sets in that we are mortal like all the rest of humanity and coming to realization that our time is ticking away is sad. Those who never been in wts don't know the feeling because they haven't spend that much time pondering how close they "were" to living eternally and that's a big negative crap that wts feeds it's flock. And maybe that's what you're experiencing as well. Somethings take time to get out of our system, enjoy your life, look forward to aging like the rest and make the best of it.

40

Are you guided by spirit?

by straightshooter in

jw
friends

living by the spirit benefits the individual and those around them.. .

diamondiiz

Writing here about something that is strictly your claim doesn't make it so and the discussion will continue in circles without proving a single thing. If the holy spirit is acting today in secret it's very odd as it wasn't so in the first century as it appears from the experiances in the bible. I could add more but really there isn't a point in discussing what I or you may imagine is real to ourselves 8)

22

A few questions concerning Jehovah's Witnesses doctrines

by garyneal in

for those familiar with my postings already know, i am a christian who is married to an active jehovah's witness (though not yet baptized).

we discuss issues concerning the witnesses and their doctrines and have had "bible studies" with one of the elders.

i've asked her about some of these things and i would like to share her responses and see if it lines up with watchtower teachings.. can a police officer become a jehovah's witness?.

diamondiiz

I know of prison guards being JWs carrying a gun with the stipulation being that if needed they would not use it so same reasoning would probably fapply to being a cop but most likely it would be frawen upon. I never knew or heard of a jw cop so I don't know if there are any from experiance.

Lottery is a no no as a superstition is that one is putting faith in a god of good luck.

q1 - depending how you view each one. A sinner could be viewed as a sinner like all imperfect humans or a sinner as someone willingly going out of their way to commit badness.

q2 - also misleading since Christ came and died for all but went preaching to sinners (ex. tax collectors and harlets). If he only came for actual sinners we would be better of doing evil now so we could be saved :)

q3 - if I go and nuke couple countries while I ask Christ in my heart will I sit beside Christ in heaven? I guess I would be sinning which would also mean I'm in position to go to heaven since Christ came for sinners not good people as per q2 :)

q4 - a-c depending how one reasons and some may say D :)

q5 - go to hell? Really?? LOL yet I would like to see that one maybe a devil with a pitchfork

Idolatry could mean various things. When someone makes a cross, has a picture of whatever on a wall or a statue of whatever (doesn't have to be Christian faith) and faces the object and prays doesn't that appear to be an act of worship in front of the image? How about if you have let's say a cross on your wall and when you pray you turn your back to the cross? Many wouldn't do that nor would they turn their back to picture of Mary "mother of God" on the wall to pray but would face the icon, that is called idolatry. Ps 115:3-8 Many may claim that they're not praying to the icon but it helps them visualizing God but wouldn't other religions also say the same thing about their elephant head goddess or their big beer belly Budah that those are only representation of the real diety not that they actually pray to the object in front of them?

Now that last peragraph actually made sense about wts but again other religions also teach bunch of crap that stinks just as but but at least most religions don't force their people to follow them as blindly as wts. WTS leaders make themselves idols in many ways an represent themselves very much like pope who cannot be questioned even though they deny being inspired or perfect and yet cannot be questioned? What's up with that?

When athiests hear religious people speak no wonder they roll their eyes and are glad they are no part of religion as most religious people repeat what they've learned from their religious leaders and that's what they follow but hopefully their religions are not so controlling that they can't reject at least some of the crap that is thaught by their religious leaders.