Posts by HB

22

I read a study about the WTS-Growth

by JWdaughter in

and it said that based on their growth and such, that in 20 years(or by 2020) there would be 28 million jws.

any sign of imminent, widespread persecution that you all have noticed?

i keep hearing about kh's being built and remodeled, and how huge their conventions are.

HB

"Statistics are like a bikini - what they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital". - Prof. Aaron Levenstein

"He uses statistics like a drunken man uses a lamp-post.... for support rather than illumination" Andrew Lang,

16

New Creationist museum in Portsmouth UK

by HB in

it appears that creationist views are gaining a foot-hold here in the uk too.. see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7613403.stm.

by julian joyce .

bbc news .

HB

Morons of the UK show yourself and be counted!

I have many friends and acquaintances, religious, atheist and all shades in between, but I don't know anyone in the UK who even vaguely believes in Creationism. Seeing how many churches have closed in the UK and observing the general trend towards small and ageing congregations, I do find it hard to believe that it could be getting more popular here.

I would be interested to know on what basis the claim that Creationism is growing was based. No statistics were given in the article, and the opening of one museum doesn't necessarily represent a huge swell in support. I have no idea of the figures but at a wild guess, if there were say 5000 British creationists last year and 5500 this year, it is technically growing, but not worryingly so (UK population is approx 60 million).

It would also be interesting to know the demographics, and whether the numbers of Creationists have been augmented by recent immigration. The Portsmouth area where the museum has opened has a large population of Eastern Europeans.

Charles Darwin's home at Downe in Kent is open to the public and when I visited last year, whilst viewing the rooms and exploring the perimeter path in his garden where he walked to help him think, I noticed a hushed reverence amongst the other visitors of a kind that is normally reserved for great cathedrals and other Holy places. (I guess the experience of visiting Downe House is the UK equivalent of going to Graceland for an American rock n Roll fan).

In a country where myth and magic have been part of our heritage since well before Stone Henge was built, it is interesting that in the 21st century it is now quintessentially British to be cynical and suspicious about all things spiritual, whereas in America which is a relatively young country, a large proportion of the population are deeply religious.

Incidentally, when I put < UK Creationists > into Google, (trying unsuccessfully to find out how many exist) Google asked me if I meant 'UK cartoonists', which I thought was telling.

16

New Creationist museum in Portsmouth UK

by HB in

it appears that creationist views are gaining a foot-hold here in the uk too.. see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7613403.stm.

by julian joyce .

bbc news .

HB

Sorry something went amiss with the pasting, if you want to read the article, best to click the link.

16

New Creationist museum in Portsmouth UK

by HB in

it appears that creationist views are gaining a foot-hold here in the uk too.. see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7613403.stm.

by julian joyce .

bbc news .

HB

It appears that creationist views are gaining a foot-hold here in the UK too.

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7613403.stm

Who are the British creationists?

Adam and Eve

By Julian Joyce
BBC News

Widely believed in the United States, creationism - the belief that God created the earth and man in six days - is enjoying a resurgence of support in the UK, say its believers and its critics.

At first glance the Genesis Expo museum, in the naval town of Portsmouth, looks like any other repository of natural history exhibits: fossils of dinosaurs and unusual rock formations.

But focus on the narrative of the information panels alongside them, and you start to realise this is a museum with a difference - one dedicated to the theory of creationism.

The revelation that US vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin says creationism should be taught in schools, alongside that of evolutionary theory, has raised few eyebrows in the US. An estimated 47% of Americans reject outright Charles Darwin's theory of evolution, accepting instead the Bible's account of the creation of the universe - as laid out in the first chapter of Genesis.

If we came from nothing and go into nothing... that encourages people to lead reckless and materialistic lifestyles alt

Rev Greg Haslam, Westminster Chapel, London alt

Call for creationism in science

But in Britain, where a portrait of Darwin appears on the back of the £10 note, his theory of life evolving from primitive to complex structures by means of natural selection appears to be unchallenged orthodoxy.

Not so, say those on both sides of the creationist divide - a point amply proved by the existence of the Genesis Expo museum, to date Britain's only creationist museum. The museum is the work of Britain's oldest creationist group, the Creation Science Movement, which has built Genesis Expo to visibly challenge the theory of evolution .

In its walk-through display, fossils in glass cases purport to show that ancient animals - including man - did not evolve from lower creatures but were instead divinely created "after their kind" (Genesis Chapter 1, verse 21).

A picture of a landslide-causing volcano is used to counter the scientific understanding that rock strata took millions of years to build up.

And throughout the display are scattered examples of "intelligent design" - complex creatures that "could not have evolved" as the result of natural selection.

Gravestone exhibit

Leading British scientist and author Dr Richard Dawkins has warned of creationist "brainwashing" in the UK - spurred on by an unwillingness of the authorities to offend religious sensibilities. His creationist adversaries say their ideas are beginning to gain wider acceptance within these shores as dissatisfaction grows with "materialist" evolutionary explanations of how life began.

The pocket evolutionist - Charles Darwin, on the back of a £10 note

Museum curator Ross Rosevear describes himself as a "Young Earth" creationist, who believes that the earth was created in six days "less than 10,000 years ago."

Standing before the museum's prize exhibit - a mock gravestone inscribed: "Here lies the Theory of Evolution" - he rejects as "unreliable" the scientific tests that fix the age of the earth at more than four billion years. While he concedes his convictions are intimately connected with his Christian faith, he insists the evidence presented in the displays could convince even non-believers of the "fatal flaws" in Darwin's theory of evolution.

"All we are saying is that it is not unreasonable to present an alternative explanation of how life began," he says.

For some, it's an explanation that has gained a surprisingly wide acceptance in the UK.

A 2006 survey for the BBC found that more than a fifth of those polled were convinced by the creationist argument. Less than half - 48% - chose evolution.

And while the Church of England this week issues a formal apology to Charles Darwin, after initially denying his theory, other churches - mostly on the evangelical Christian wing - adhere to old beliefs.

Growing support

Justin Thacker, head of theology for the Evangelical Alliance, says research in 1998 found one third of the Alliance church members were "literal six-day creationists." The other two thirds embraced evolutionary theory to a "greater or lesser degree" he says.

British creationist and curator of Genesis Expo, Ross Rosevear

"Since that survey was done, I'd say fewer of our members are out-and-out creationists - it has become more acceptable to embrace some form of Darwinism," he says.

But Keith Porteous Wood of the Secular Society is unconvinced.

"There is no question that creationism is growing," he says. "It is increasingly well funded, and well organised."

The society says Britain is beginning to follow the lead of the US where supporters and opponents of creationism have joined battle - in the school classroom. Two years ago the government sought to clarify the rules on creationist teaching, following revelations that the head of science at one of its new academies was the director of an anti-evolution pressure group.

A spokeswoman for the Department for Children, Schools and Families says creationism is not included in the science curriculum because "it has no scientific basis... but it can be discussed in [religious education] lessons".

Creationist schools

But that ruling was questioned last week by an influential figure. The Rev Professor Michael Reiss, director of education at the Royal Society, says science teachers ought to be willing to talk about creationism if students bring the subject up.

He told the British Association Festival of Science in Liverpool that while making clear creationism is not accepted by the scientific community, teachers should convey a message of respect that does not "denigrate or ridicule" children's beliefs.

Charles Darwin - 200 years from your birth (1809) the Church of England owes you an apology for misunderstanding you alt

Rev Dr Malcolm Brown, of CofE's mission and public affairs department alt

Church of England - On the origin of Darwin

It's a sentiment that inflames the anti-creationist lobby, which sees any compromises in the classroom as a betrayal of children's interests.

"Creationism is anti-science," says Mr Porteous Wood. "Teaching it to children is a form of intellectual child abuse, because it gives them the wrong facts about life." His passionate views echo those of Prof Dawkins, who last month accused teachers of "bending over backwards" to respect "prejudices" that children have been brought up with at home.

And secular groups also point out that while state school pupils are "protected" from creationist teaching, similar guidelines do not exist to cover children who attend private religious schools - Christian, Jewish and Muslim.

One such school that teaches creationism as a science is the respected Islamic Karimia Institute in Nottingham.

"We teach what it says in the Koran, that God created Adam and Eve, and from them came the rest of humanity," says institute director Dr Musharraf Hussain. "We do not teach that man is descended from a lower animal - we say that God created the different species on their own."

This shared belief in the origins of man - and the universe - is uniting unlikely bedfellows in the anti-evolution cause.

The Rev Greg Haslam, who preaches the creationist Christian creed to his 400-strong congregation at Westminster Chapel in London, welcomes the determination of Muslims to impart a religious-based view of the world.

"Science does not have to be taught in conflict with faith or religion," he says. "I believe the current debate over creationism versus evolution is beginning to draw more and people over to our side of the argument

"The materialist explanation of the creation has nothing to offer - if we came from nothing and go into nothing, then that encourages people to lead reckless and materialistic lifestyles.

"Evolution is a world-view that leads to futility. It's no wonder people are dissatisfied with it."

.....................................................................................................

See link above for comments on the article posted by the public.

Further info about the museum can be seen at https://www.csm.org.uk/expo.php?PHPSESSID=f1d1e1e18a303b64f8849237cf68d505 or the museum's own website www.genesisexpo.co.uk

I live near Portsmouth so I may go to visit out of curiosity, I am quite interested to see what comments are in the visitors' book that they have not published on the web.

22

Have you ever order food online?

by asilentone in

jw
friends

HB

I have a tip which may not be useful in other countries, I place grocery orders online before going camping, and I have found that provided we are not too deep in the wilds, supermarkets will deliver to a campsite which saves wasting time going off food shopping. They usually deliver right to the tent door if we are able to specify whereabouts we are.

74

COMMENTS YOU WILL NOT HEAR AT THE WT STUDY 09-07-08 (HOUSE TO HOUSE MINISTR

by Mary in

" (this would harmonize with matt 10:9 that tells them not to take any money with them).

" the interpretation of the acts of the apostles, 1961, pp.120-21.

it became evident, however, that further personal training in the house-to-house ministry was needed.

HB

Having never been a JW, I read through this post (as I do other posts) with wide eyes and my mouth (probably rather unattractively) open in amazement and incredulity. I find learning about this religion very interesting but it's hard to comprehend how so many people are duped by the WTS .

One little word in the Watchtower propaganda struck me:

Two neatly dressed individuals approach a house and endeavor to share with the householder a brief message from the Bible concerning God's Kingdom. If he shows interest in the message, they may present Bible-based literature and offer a free home Bible study. [My underlining]

Not sure why they would use the word "free"? Do they regularly promote the lack of cost for a study or was it just slipped in here as an almost subliminal marketing ploy?

The way I read it was......"just think how generous we are and what an amazing opportunity householders would be turning down if they say no; we could charge people a large sum of money for this Bible study but we are so charitable that as a special privilege, they can have it FREE!. They really are lucky people".
(Oh sorry just realised they would not use the term 'lucky', not sure if 'fortunate' is ok instead?)

I sometimes wonder if people would still be interested if they had to pay to study with the WTS? Sometimes putting a price on something makes it seem more desirable.... conversely the perception is that if something is free it can't be much good. Just imagine if the WTS did charge and used tacky commercial advertising in newspapers to promote the religion.....

"AMAZING OFFER! FREE TRAINING OPPORTUNITY. Do you want to make new friends and learn the secrets of happiness? Do you want to live forever? To find out more call 0800 1234 (lines open 24 hours). Our friendly staff will arrange for one of our highly trained study conductors to call in person at a time to suit you. For this month only, the normal fee of £30.00 for your first session will be waived providing you sign up for a full course of personal study! And what's more, if you call before 31st September you will get a 10% discount off the cost of 6 months worth of trainings. Two incredible offers too good to miss. So what are you waiting for, don't delay call now, your life depends on it!"

I'm sure it won't happen like that, but actually it would probably be more effective than door to door in attracting gullible people, the sort who are quite happy to send £50 in the post for a silver-plated four leaf clover or crystal talisman that will bring good luck.

1

Church can be fun...

by HB in

fact is often funnier than fiction.

if you haven't seen this clip before, it should make you laugh:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtppqotw3q0.

HB

Fact is often funnier than fiction. If you haven't seen this clip before, it should make you laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTppQOTW3Q0

7

How do you believe something is true - or reject it as a lie?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

when someone told me something new, or when i heard something new, how do you decide that it is true or not?

this was the way i decided to accept things or not for my entire life until a few months ago:.

1. does what i just heard support jehovah's organization?.

HB

I find this a very interesting subject as it is at the heart of everyone's philosophy of life, whether a JW or not.

Theoretically, if you were to write a long list of all the widely varying beliefs that human beings have, with the most ridiculous and crazy ideas (in your opinion) at the top and working down to what you feel are the most logical ideas at the bottom, and then ask other people to draw a line to indicate where they feel the dividing line between fact and fiction lies, no one would be able to draw a line exactly.

Some would roughly draw the line right near the bottom of the list, as they mostly only believe in things that can be proved by science or logic, but they may still hold onto one or two highly illogical belief from the top of the list. Others would roughly draw the line near the top but reject something quite logical from the bottom of the list as untrue.

A lady I know who is an intelligent and successful business woman running her own company, has rejected all religion as superstition, but nevertheless firmly believes that she has been reincarnated and that in her previous life she was an ancient egyptian Princess. (Her cat who is called Tutankhamun was apparently her cat in her previous existence and was reincarnated with her.) Her bookshelves are full of self-help books on everything from healing the soul with a fruit diet to feng shui and coping with alien visitations. And also for the past few years each week she has paid about £100 for a consultation lasting half an hour with a personal spiritual guru (a clever American) who basically tells her what he knows she wants to hear (ie how amazing she is) but he disguises his 'wisdom' in spiritual-sounding language, claiming to teach her to get in touch with her inner child etc. She believes he has special powers other humans don't have.

When I have discussions with her, asking her how she knows her beliefs are true, she first brings out a 'wonderful and enlightening' book that she has read, She dismisses my point that just becasue it's written in a book, it doesn't mean something is true but claims she "just knows in every pore of her being it's 100% true". She says I am the blind one and hopes one day I will reach her level of enlightenment and understand truth in the powerful way that she does. She is just as deluded in my opinion as JWs are.

It may be simplistic, but I see her illogical beliefs being made while her rational mind is held in suspense. She points out that my judgement of what is rational and what is not is different to hers and asks who is to judge? I counter that truth is not subjective, and the discussion twists in and out and we eventually get nowhere and have to agree to differ.

My own way of deciding if something is true or a lie, (which applies to everything including an arguement between two children over who punched whom first, or whether God exists) is to try to keep emotion out of the process. I start off with a sceptical mind, then find out as much as I can on both sides of the arguement to learn the facts, listen to as many other opionions as possible, then use logic as best I can. But in cases where this cannot prove the matter either way, I go by the "balance of probability", but keep a little bit of my mind open. Emotions can be wonderful but can also be powerful and dangerous things if not kept in control by the logical side of the brain.

9

Bad Japanese Economy

by PopeOfEruke in

bad japanese economyaccording to inside contacts, the japanese banking crisis shows no signs of ameliorating.

if anything, it's getting worse.

following last week's news that origami bank had folded, we are hearing that sumo bank has gone belly up, and bonsai bank plans to cut back some of its branches.

HB

The assets of the Sake Bank have recently been liquidated, and the mood amongst investors is very sober.

The Geisha Bank is still looking reasonably good, but there are rumours that they have been making up figures and whitewashing over problems to mask their true condition. Also their CEO recently bowed out which is not a good omen.

8

COULD there possibly be a world with out a GOD...

by zeroday in

jw
friends

say an alien world contacted us and discovered earth was populated with theists and they were shocked and suprised people of another world would believe in a god...would we be suprised shocked or just shaken to our core...could there possibly be a universe with out god...

HB

I have thought about this myself in the past, and I feel that it is likely there are intelligent beings on another planet in this or another universe who have developed a cohesive society without a god.

I picture two scenarios, firstly if the alien beings had similar origins and development to earthlings with brains like ours and culture like ours, it is likely that initially they would have needed to invent creation myths and supernatural belief systems similar to our earthly religions. But if their civilization had existed for much longer than ours, so that their understanding of science and philosophy had matured and if their planet's education system had been effective, by now they may have outgrown the need for religion.

Or maybe if this alien species had very different origins and development to ours, they never had the need for belief in magic, superstition and religion in the first place. Not exactly a parallel but I am thinking of the society of humans created by test-tube in Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World".

I agree with the Sacrificial Loon that the visitors would think earthlings with faith were primitive and quaint, in the same way most of us would react if we visited a remote tribe on earth today where they still believe that they must make food offerings to their carved wooden gods or pour the blood of a white goat on a particualr rock if they want the harvest to succeed.

But the point of the original question was to ask how we humans would react to the knowledge that there was a successful society without a god. I think most deeply religious people would not change their views whatever evidence was given.

I am not sure about Muslims, Jews, Buddhists etc but I think committed Christians would just feel sorry for the aliens for missing out on the "joy" they personally experience, and would probably try to convert them. They would view them the same way they view an atheist, as misguided and blind.

But the knowledge may have a profound effect on the countless people who are not quite sure whether there is a god or not. It would depend on how happy and successful the godless alien society was and how they organised themsleves and formed their moral codes.

The first question I would want to ask the aliens would be whether, without religion, war existed on their planet. I am thinking of the John Lennon song 'Imagine'.... "Imagine there's no Heaven, it's easy if you try, No Hell below us, above us only sky, Imagine all the people, living life in peace. Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do, Nothing to kill or die for and no religion too. Imagine all the people living life in peace.............................."