1983 "avoid independent thinking .. how is such independent thinking manifested?
a common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by god's visible organization.
" {wt jan 15 1983 22}.
Good topic!
Would the WTS have condemned the Bereans? The Bible writer didn't at Acts 17:11, "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."
The difference was,Paul and Silas stuck to the basic good news. So their message could hold up to such scrutiny.
Any "counsel that is provided" should be questioned and reviewed, unless-we-are-robots.
Gopher
why do they call it new light, when in 2pt.
1:21 the later part says but men spoke from god as they were borne along by holy spirit?
is there no holy spirit involved in getting this so called (new light) guess thats why there is so much flip flopping around these ....old lights and then new lights again.
Good thoughts, NOJW.
2 Peter 1:21 refers to the direct inspiration of God's Word, the Bible, which came through holy spirit.
The WTS organization says they are "not inspired", but claim to be spirit-directed. Go figure, what's the difference?
Anyhow, if they had been truly spirit-directed all along, these confusing changes that have accumulated since the very beginning of the Society would never have happened, since the Bible also says God is not a God of confusion and disorder, but of peace.
Gopher
this is my first post in any network such as this.
i have been "lurking" around the "apostate" sites for the last year or so.
i am glad i have!
Welcome aboard, 30
Like you, I wondered what took me so long to get out. I was raised in the organization, and was "dismissed" last year @ age 39.
But I think our experience gained on the "inside" can be of some help to those who come to this board.
Isn't it good to come free from the hold of WTS propaganda we've been subjected to all our life? If it had been actually "truth", there would not need to be such a propaganda campaign, which includes calling all of us nice people out here apostates (hehe).
Take care, hope to hear from you often!
Gopher
unfortunately, i'm not quite sure what my questions are.
my first post was in the "dating..." forum, if anyone's interested.. the biggest problem i have is my complete ignorance concerning jw's and their beliefs/ practices.
the research i've done has provided only polar opposite views, either jw is the way or it's a cult and it's wrong.
Hello, Texasbred.
Welcome to the forum. I believe you should get a nice deluge of answers from the good people out here.
I wish you only the best. You sound like a loving, generous soul, no wonder this sister is attracted to you!
You asked "should I change her"? To me, it sounds like she already has some doubts about the organization. Otherwise, she would have "played by its rules" and only dated on the inside (not saying that I think that's the best way at all). Also, she is lying to her parents for the same reason, I'm sure -- doubts about her way of life.
So she already is changing. If you continue to show her your love, perhaps in time she will continue to change. I like how you stated that God will always love and accept her.
You have discerned that Jehovah's Witnesses get the most mileage possible out of 'guilt', and that's what your girlfriend will be subjected to if she continues and is discovered.
If she chooses to continue with you, over time things may work out. Her parents would or should have nothing against you, because you seem like the decent sort.
To me there is nothing egotistical or self-serving about wanting to share life and give of yourself to someone you love. The self-serving tag can be applied to an organization that, with its man-made rules, chooses to make family members shun 'disapproved' ones.
I say give it some time, and if the relationship keeps steadily growing, God will help things work out in the long run.
i have long believed in separating my personal life from life in the workplace, and rarely discuss matters of a private nature with co-workers.. i work with a woman who has a young daughter (early 20's) who has terminal cancer and probably only weeks left to live.
i've known this woman for a number of years and know her to be sensitive, and compassionate, having a deep faith in god.. i just found out last week that another one of my co-workers is a jw.
i have no intention of "outing" myself to her and she has no idea that she works side-by-side with someone who was disfellowshipped 21 years ago.. my concern is this: today, the jw co-worker approached me and asked me if i know where my other co-worker lives "because i'd like to talk with her about something very important".
SFJim,
This is a tough call. I'd like to see what others say too.
My two cents: There are 2 reasons your co-worker will likely be polite but resist proselytization. (1) Her strong faith in God, which you alluded to, especially if she belongs to a supportive faith group, and (2) How busy/occupied she is with tending to her daughter's needs. There probably wouldn't even be much time for Bible discussion.
The JW may be picking the "wrong" time for her zeal. If and when the daughter dies, and after a sufficient time of grieving has past, then life returns to normal, except for the griever. At that point, there is a "hole" to fill. That, in my opinion, would be when a person would be most likely to give a proselytizer a listening ear. Both to the JW, and to you, who could "fill her in" with the truth about 'the truth'.
I could be completely wrong about the above. Every situation is different, and you know more about the situation than I do. But it is my 2 cents.
Gopher
i'm so glad i am finally allowed to post my messages.
they have been building up for quite some time, since the other message board wouldn't let me register because i felt uncomfortable putting what congregation i was with at the time in the appropriate box.
i'd like to start off by saying i love this discussion board, and i'm glad so many people are finding help here.
Welcome, you with the unusual name. I'm not quite sure, should I call you "dood"?
Welcome to the discussion board. It has been a great help to so many seeking to keep some sanity while pursuing freedom from the WTS brand of religious confinement.
You ask some really deep questions. Some who read your note will say there is no God, it doesn't matter. Like you, I have retained belief in God, although altered from what I thought before.
So going on the argument that God exists and the Bible's descriptions of the events are accurate, why all this death and destruction?
As far as the "all ending war" mentioned in Revelation, my thought is that Revelation is a very symbolic book. When it mentions "blood up as high as horse's bridles", etc., surely this is symbolism. To be sure, evil must end somehow. I cannot believe, however, that 99.9% of the world's population is evil and must be destroyed. There is, however a small percentage, probably including the world's leaders and their armies. Anyhow, how evil will be dealt with, I won't even guess how that literally will occur, or when. Just best to leave that in God's hands.
As far as how God fought for the nation of ancient Israel in the past, I think the main point was the protection of the promised "seed", Jesus and his ancestors. The nations would regularly go forth and war against each other (I think this time of year was popular for that), and push and pull to gain territorial advantage. If the nation of Israel was allowed to be wiped out, that would have served Satan's purpose to destroy the possibility of the 'seed' occurring in the nation of Abraham's grandson, that is, Israel.
As far as innocent lives that were lost in the process, I cannot think of a real good explanation.
I don't think God intended to NEVER interfere in earth's affairs, just when his purpose was threatened, he had to correct the course of history, so to speak. So that's why certain wicked and hurtful things go on and on without it seeming like God wants to help, when at other times it seems he surprises people and jumps in and raises kings up or puts them down.
Just a few general thoughts. Welcome to the board, can't wait to hear your story on the "Make New Friends" board.
Gopher
i hope this is a friendly place, because i could sure use some friends.
this is my first try at posting on a discussion board, though i have been lurking here and at a few others on the same subject for a few weeks now.
about 4 weeks ago i took the plunge and decided to see just what all the mystery and danger of reading "apostate" material was all about.
Truman,
Welcome home. This is the place to help you know that what you feel is real & valid, and so it helps you "move on" to a more free, meaningful, productive life!
I'm fairly new here. Like you, I lurked uncertainly before joining in. But people have taken me in. Little 'ol me.
So have no fear. You can "be yourself" and be welcome here. (I know we sometimes have to 'put on a show' as JW's. Couldn't really be yourself, love & friendships were CONDITIONAL.)
So continue on with your wit, maybe you will be the one known for making eclectic references to movie scenes! Whatever your style is, it will be a welcome part of the mix.
p.s. For some reason, when I first saw your name, I thought of Jim Carrey's "The Truman Show", and how he broke free from his totally controlled existence. Sounds like you're climbing up that ladder to the outside world!
Gopher
from abcnews.com, monday march 26th:.
the congregation of a church in suburban pittsburgh gathered around a bonfire sunday night to burn harry potter books, disney videos, rock cds and literature from other religions, purging their lives of things they felt stood between them and their faith.
"our purpose comes out of the bible," the rev.
From ABCNews.Com, Monday March 26th:
The congregation of a church in suburban Pittsburgh gathered around a bonfire Sunday night to burn Harry Potter books, Disney videos, rock CDs and literature from other religions, purging their lives of things they felt stood between them and their faith."Our purpose comes out of the Bible," the Rev. George Bender of the Harvest Assembly of God Church in Butler County. "We read in the Bible how people, after they received Jesus Christ as their savior, took things out of their homes and burned them. They [the members of the congregation] received Christ and they willingly did this."
The church has a regular Sunday evening service, which does not include a bonfire. But this week the congregation wanted to do a little more, and 35 people brought books, CDs and tapes that they felt were not in keeping with their faith.
"We did it in the open so that people would ask why," Bender said.......
Animated videos such as Pinnochio and Hercules were also among the items thrown in the fire, which also included Pearl Jam and Black Sabbath CDs, and pamphlets from Jehovah's Witnesses.
Simon,
I think too many of us having gotten into the habit of posting everything in the MAIN forum. We experienced posters can help others who post things in MAIN to consider other forums, like this one.
Do you think maybe we should change the name of MAIN to "JW CULTURE"? That way, we won't have a "catch all" forum, but people will have to take 1 or 2 seconds and THINK about to which forum they should post their message.
GOPHER
simon!.
are you saying that marriage and retirement go hand in hand?.
ann get him!.
Simon! I vote to keep it "as it is". It'll take a little getting used to, but it'll hold up fine. Your sub-headings explain it all, "Getting it together" for the Dating, Relationships & Sex forum.
Marriage doesn't belong under the "getting it together" idea, well, not for most people.
I'm guessing there will be few entries for "Retirement", so putting those posts in with the "Marriage" category probably makes sense.
SIMON, YOU DID THE BEST YOU COULD, IMHO.
BTW, Prisca, are you REALLY sure marriage and sex belong under the same heading? [8>]
Gopher
