Posts by Awakened07

16

JW Memorials Should Have Ceased Because of the 1914 Doctrine.

by OnTheWayOut in

inspired by a person who calls herself 2proud2beme on youtube, in .

her part 2 on the memorial, i realized the following:.

jw's criticize christian religions for celebrating the birth of christ (christmas).. one of the reasons they use is:.

Awakened07

This is more of a 'back to top' kinda post; I just wanted to say I think you have a point there.

Perhaps someone who's still active should give their view on it, like Martian.

284

NAME JUST ONE thing....ONE THING...revealed by God....

by Terry in

somebody is always insisting they have an invisible and mysterious source of divine information and selling it like hotcakes and syrup.

but, why are you still buying?

when will you ever learn that this is a scam among many scams.

Awakened07

Wow - still on the virgin birth thing, huh? Reminds me not to reply (with well thought-out posts) to threads with more than ten pages, max. Maybe five. Goes in circles after that.

[edit] Sorry, this post wasn't very constructive. [/edit]

3

sex during marriage

by arker in

1 cor.

7 :38 "consequently he also that gives his virginity in marriage does well, but he that does not give it in marriage will do better.".

does this mean no sex during marriage is the best route?.

"For thine LORD didst not create thine male limb and stones [penis, balls], rather they were crafted by the Devil. So that every man should cuttest off his male parts and cast them aside, for it is better to go without than to have the nightly discharges that follow impure dreams. They are an abomination that thou must pray forgiveness for. Thine male parts shouldst only be borrowed to thy wife - if thou ist weak and MUST marry - so that she may fertilize herself by thine seed. Doest not have sexual relations by thine wife, for it is an abomination. Thine seed shouldst only be shot out in her general direction so as to attempt the creation of offspring. Should offspring result, thou shouldst then cut thine male parts off, having served their purpose. Never must thou feel fleshly lust or fleshly love for anyone of the opposite gender, be it thine wife or other. Otherwise, cut thine brains out and cast them aside as well as thine male parts, for it is better to live without a brain and male parts than to contemplate the matters of the flesh, if only for a second. Doest God have male parts? And thusly, no man with his male parts intact shall ever enter into heavenly bliss."

I think it's in there. If not, it should be.

8

revelation B.S. this week - I wanted to puke!

by still_in74 in

okay, last night at the b.s.

i almost puked when listening to these paragraphs about 1914 & 1919.. how can anyone not see the enormous pile of bull s#!t to make this prophetic connection???

how about the fact that the wts makes countless references to the 144k being sealed in 1935????

Awakened07

Yep, I remember back when I was still active (not at all fading) and we had the Revelation book (the previous version) in the Book Study; even then I was shaking my head (well, not literally so others could see...) from all the weirdness in that book. All the "and from this we can clearly see", "we must therefore conclude", "it is evident" (statements of that nature anyway) - and I was like "Whaaa?? How the heck do you reach that conclusion??".

Of course - I never asked. That would have meant I was weak.

9

"A thousand years as one day"

by Awakened07 in

the scripture saying: "...one day is with the lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

" (2. peter 3:8) is often used both by jehovah's witnesses and others, to show that a day can literally mean a thousand years in the eyes of god.

this is then used especially for the creation story, and for the fall of adam and eve.

Awakened07

The scripture saying: "...one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (2. Peter 3:8) is often used both by Jehovah's Witnesses and others, to show that a day can literally mean a thousand years in the eyes of God.

This is then used especially for the creation story, and for the fall of Adam and Eve. "Since one day is like a thousand years to God, it's easy to see how each creation 'day' could have been a thousand years long", they may say (at least I've heard it been said before). And also (more widely used): "Adam lived to be 930 years old after he had sinned, and this fits well with the scripture that says 'one day is like a thousand years to God', since it was said they would die on the 'day' they ate of the fruit".

Now - I've thought about this (yes, it's true, I have!).

-When I just read that scripture as-is, it simply tells me that God is 'outside of time'; time does not apply to him.

It seems though, like some people simply use their 'surgical knife' and neatly cut out half of the scripture and use it to further the thought that one 'day' is literally a thousand years (especially in Adam and Eve's case). But if it simply means that one 'day' is a thousand years in God's eyes - - why is the thought then repeated "in reverse"? Why not just say "One day is like a thousand years to God", period? I can only understand the scripture as a thought simply stating that God is not 'within time'.

Peter here semi-quoted Psalm 90:4 - that says: "For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night." This again reinforces to me that the intention of the writers is to say that God is "timeless", not that a thousand years is literally like one day (especially when you read the verse in context).

I also find it interesting that sometimes this scripture will be used figuratively, and sometimes to show that one day can literally mean a thousand years:

In the first case, some people (WBTS) will say that the scripture implies that the creation 'days' were undefined periods of time (they use other scriptures for this as well, but this is one of them). In other words; in this interpretation, the scripture is not 100% literal - it is used figuratively. Now suddenly each creation 'day' is not literally 1000 years, but may have been several thousands or millions of years long. In the second case, they will use the same scripture to show that the 'day' of Adam was literally a thousand years, as it fits with his age upon death.

So, in essence: - Do you need it to mean literally a thousand years? Go ahead. Do you need it to mean 'undefined period of time'? Go ahead. Twist and turn it to your liking.

I'd like some feedback to see if I've misunderstood or missed something (I'm open to saying 'Ooops - I didn't think of that!').

[edited for clarity and because 'less is more']

20

Belated welcome to JWD for iveseenthelight!

by nvrgnbk in

jw
friends

love the avatar!

.

welcome, iveseenthelight!.

Awakened07

I miss so many of these welcoming threads; that doesn't mean some are less welcome by me than others!

Welcome iveseenthelight, and all others (who I haven't welcomed).

37

How to get the programming out of my mind.

by Apostate.Jr in

jw
friends

i have been reading this board for a year now, so i'm not new, but new to posting :)

please let me apologize in advance as i am having trouble separating what is true - from what i hear at the meetings, vs here, and private research, so i may ramble or say things that may sound watchtowery.

i still go to the meetings due to family pressure which may eventually end, not sure when, probably when i decide its enough.

Awakened07

Welcome Apostate.Jr.

We've all (well, most of us) been in the place you are now. I recognize the way you're thinking, as it was me a few years ago.

I think it's important for yourself that you take it slow. On 'apostate' sites like this one, you'll find a lot of good info that may help you take the right steps, but you will also find things that may seem harsh, or blunt, or aggressive, or the like - things that gives you bad chills of guilt down your spine when you're still an active witness. This is because people here have already left a long time ago, they may be angry at what happened to them or what happened to other witnesses, and they don't any longer feel guilt for discussing things that they would never discuss before.

Don't let yourself get turned off by the more racy topics, but instead continue to search for answers to your questions (use the internet, but always check sources). While you're in the place you are now (fragile in a way), you may want to at the same time research what the Watchtower teaches about the things you're wondering about, just to please your conscience at first. You need to ease out of this, and I think this is a good way of doing it. In your research - if you ask the right (or wrong, depending on perspective) questions, you may find that the answers you find in the Watchtower publications either aren't there(!), or that the answers you get doesn't make sense to you, or are simply dancing around the core of the question. However - in the place you are now (mentally, spiritually), you may also find answers in Watchtower publications that make sense in the mindset and belief that you currently have. Just keep asking questions and try to find answers.

Many here have become either atheist or agnostic, but many others have found other religions or Christian denominations. I myself have become an atheist, but I won't advocate that view in this post. You have to do your own research and form your own conclusions. Atheism may be the 'truth' for me, but I acknowledge that it won't work well for everyone - at least not in the first period of a fade from the witnesses. It's "bad enough" to learn that what you've believed about the afterlife etc. your whole life was a lie. Some atheists/agnostics here would certainly disagree with me on this approach, but in a beginning fade I think you should take things slow. To me - if you find some other faith, that's great, and if you find that research leads you to atheism or agnosticism, that's great as well. Just don't be afraid to ask the tough questions and go where the answers lead you. At the same time, be careful of the information you read and process, because there is a lot of weird stuff out there. Try to keep a level head, check numerous resources, check the sources of the info etc. You could of course just go to a evangelical Christian meeting and get 'saved' in one night, but my personal advice is to spend time doing research of numerous things instead. To get a clear view of why JWs do not in fact have the Truth, and why you should leave (and how you should leave). That in itself can take a long time.

For me personally, atheism/agnosticism 'emancipated' me, because no one can any longer throw scripture in my face in order to incite guilt. If I would join some other denomination or religion, there would for the most part still be that big black Book hanging over my head, and people using it to their advantage in some way. That's not the reason I stopped believing though - it was just a side-effect of it. But again, it may not be for everyone.

So - ask questions, research the answers, and go wherever the answers may take you. It's a big world (and universe) out there.

And welcome to JWD.

30

As a JW, Did You Exhibit An Attitude of Superiority???

by minimus in

jw
friends

looking back, did you conduct yourself in such a way that you really did feel that you were better than others?.

Awakened07

I was never one of the 'in-crowd', in any of the congregations I went to. I never strove for positions (privileges), never was a pioneer (but auxiliary once or perhaps twice), and basically never believed in myself. Never had a study, probably for that reason.

And still I would sometimes leer ["leer" may be the wrong word; it was the best I could find on 'short notice'] at people coming late to the meeting, people not in good standing, people who had been DFed and just been reinstated, people only coming in for the memorial, etc. Today I hate that I would once think or act like that toward others.

I think that in any group of people where you can strive for 'perfection' and to earn 'privileges', there will be some who do well and others not so well, and you will get a class system eventually.

15

JW Science Quote Of The Day 8-29

by TD in

jw
friends

wells 1898 novel, war of the worlds depicted the earth under attack by a race that had evolved past the need of eating to obtain nourishment.

these beings, in fact, had no digestive organs of any sort:.

"entrails they had none.

Awakened07

I thought it important to mention that people do actually get fed through intravenous nutrition today. I'm not talking about Ringer's lactate or Glucose, but advanced diets (often big 'bags' with an off-white solution consisting of such things as fats, sugar and proteins). These are used after surgery of the gut (or some other reason for the intestines to not work properly), when you need time to heal before you can eat normally again. I'm not sure if this changes the point of the first post, but thought I'd mention it in case you wanted to use the argument in a conversation/dispute some time.

37

I Was Going To Ask...

by deborahs_song in

jw
friends

i was going to ask in the suggestion box if a forum for new posters who still believed in god and the bible could be formed here.

then it dawned on me that most probably the owner of this discussion board and most posters here would be opposed to that idea.. please, be honest.

would you rather those who believed in the bible and believed in the creator did not post here?

Awakened07

One of my first reasons for quitting JW, was the notion that you should only 'research' within the appropriate literature, and not listen to opposing views. I thought "If what I've got is the Truth, shouldn't it hold up to any scrutiny?" Of course, I was aware that I couldn't possibly know everything there was to know within my religion or about the universe, so there was a possibility that I could be influenced by 'bad thoughts', but on the other hand I knew that if I had the Truth, at least I should be able to examine the Bible and our own literature afterwords and find the correct answers to those 'bad thoughts' that had influenced me, if that happened.

If we all sit in our own little bubbles with no outside views coming in, we're just patting each other on the back and won't learn anything. This goes for believers and atheists/agnostics alike. I consider myself an atheist, but if someone could convince me otherwise, that would be great. I'm not easy to convince though, I'll admit that.

I've seen some threads lately by Christians here, but I've decided not to 'interfere' in them (I have read them, though), because I remember how much my faith used to mean to me. I'm not sure if that's the right thing to do, but I don't want to always have to be the "cold, hard, heartless" atheist trying to destroy other people's faith. Not that I would succeed in doing so, but you know - it's no fun always "having" to attack other's belief because I disagree. I'm really mostly a nice guy. And even an atheist can see and appreciate beauty in nature, btw. :-)

Usually, I would say that people won't change their views because of discussions on internet forums, and for the most part this is true, but I think we all have to be open to the possibility that that might happen. It happened to me (not solely by what others said on forums of course, but the research that the discussions resulted in). If we're literally afraid that our views might change because of the influence of others, maybe we need to think long and hard about our beliefs.