Posts by Awakened07

40

Why Should I Believe in God?

by hamilcarr in

jw
friends

?..because if you don`t,your going straight to hell!

!....there`s no beer in hell!

!..and..they play the tune "aiky breaky heart" all day long..it never stops!

Awakened07

awakened 07 you bring up the false doctrine that you can be saved then condemned. that my friend is not true. once you are saved you are saved. you are not saved by works nor are you saved by deeds. once you accept Christ as your personal savior that is it. you cannot do anything to loose salvation. if you could then why get saved in the first place. why did Christ die? He died once for all. so there is nothing we can do either good or bad to loose it. God's word means what it says. If it didnt then God would be a liar and we know He cannot do that.eph 2: 8-10 tells us this. You only need faith to be saved

OK, I see this is going nowhere, and I didn't expect it to:

awakened 07 you bring up the false doctrine that you can be saved then condemned. that my friend is not true. once you are saved you are saved. you are not saved by works nor are you saved by deeds.

...Yes - according to your, personal, current belief. Which was my point really. Actually, I should add that you again misunderstood me; I didn't comment on the belief of "once saved, always saved" at all. What I said was that other religions and other, quite different Christian denominations believe very differently from you, so since they are not saved in the first place according to your beliefs, they can very well be condemned according to your beliefs. As can you, by their understanding of their God, or even of the same scriptures, in the case of other Christian denominations. Or are you saying that absolutely every single human on the planet will be saved, no matter what they believe, because of Jesus' sacrifice? That no one will be condemned? I seem to remember you believing in Hell, which would then be a rather empty place, so I assume you believe that people can be condemned if they don't believe like you do.

God's word means what it says. If it didnt then God would be a liar and we know He cannot do that.eph 2: 8-10 tells us this.

I find this fascinating, I truly do. 'We know God cannot be a liar because it says so in the book that says it's the word of God'. Notwithstanding, the same, non-lying book has generated several different views on this matter alone. Yours is of course the correct one, though, I get that, and you would probably argue that the Bible never was confused on the matter, but have been confused by the understanding of fallible men. The same claim is made by people of all the other beliefs too though. They are also correct, according to them, even though they may believe the opposite of you based on the same book.

Again - I'm not going to bother to try and change your mind - not that I could anyway - but I hope at least a few lurkers read this and understand a thing or two from reading it.

15

Notes from the Sunday assembly: apostates, doubts, deficit

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

for your viewing pleasure:.

i only have the notes for sunday.. .

2007-2008 circuit assembly .

Awakened07

Thanks. -I wasn't there.

Speaker said that he knew a couple of non-witnesses who were kind, caring and supportive of an older anointed couple in their 80s.
"Are these the kind of people Jesus was referring to?", he asks? No, just because they show human kindness does not mean they will survive Armaggedon.

-If that little story doesn't warm your heart, then...

40

Why Should I Believe in God?

by hamilcarr in

jw
friends

?..because if you don`t,your going straight to hell!

!....there`s no beer in hell!

!..and..they play the tune "aiky breaky heart" all day long..it never stops!

Awakened07

You say my God...He is the God of the Bible so to all of those that believe He is our God.

Yes - to all those who believe in the God of the Bible. But then again, not really. Only on this forum, there are Christians so far apart in what they believe in, that they may as well have different Gods.

-You equate the God of the Bible with the one, True God (obviously), and all other gods as false idols - just as I used to do. You don't realize that the Judeo-Christian God is just another in a seemingly never ending row of deities. And I don't expect you to.

We are saved by grace. JW do not believe that so maybe thats why you dont(holding on to false beliefs)

I'm not holding on to any beliefs, but there is no doubt that the Bible clearly points out in several passages how one should live if one wishes not to be condemned. That in turn translates to having to live and believe a certain way in order to be saved. If not, then no one will be condemned, and all will be saved. In the very very least, you'll have to agree that people will need to accept Jesus (the way you see him) in order to be saved. If not, I really don't see the point in having a specific belief or religion, because then everyone would be saved no matter what. My point in the other reply was that people of other religions believe just as strongly as you do that their God is the True one. Since you don't believe as they do, you are condemned by their God, and vice versa (as I explained in the previous post). But I don't expect you to see this. It requires looking at everything "from the outside".

so you can say your opinion but get it right

I think I got it right the first time.

I'm not going to try and take your God away from you. But just as you promote your views, I'll promote mine. You seem to be happy in your worship of your God, and that's OK by me, but I will continue to post my own views. I don't expect you to change views, and if it were to happen, it would have to come from yourself anyway. Perhaps you are a better, more stable person because of your beliefs. Many people are. I won't try to change that (unless I do so inadvertently over time). I know you have a personal relationship with Jesus, just as I once thought I had. Just realize that others have personal relationships with their deities as well. They are just as convinced as you are. Hard to believe and grasp perhaps.

17

New Light - ?

by ocsrf in

jw
friends

january 15, 2008 watchtower, page 23 paragraph 16. it seems, however, that not all who have been called to a heavenly hope since the 1930's are replacements for ones who have fallen away.

jehovah has evidently made sure that we will have anointed christians amoung us all through the final days of this system of things until the destruction of "babylon the great.

" (rev.

Awakened07

It's been extensively debated here already, but I don't blame you for not knowing, 'cause I couldn't find the threads myself when I tried to search for them.

This 'new light' is another needed change for the WTBTS because time has caught up with the previous light. It's connected to the 'new light' on the 1914 generation in that way. You are right that they now can keep on keepin' on almost indefinitely.

8

to worlds (danish movie) about JW

by pallemar in

jw
friends

a new danish movie have premier today in the danish theathers.. it is about a young girl, and her life inside jw and her relations ship with her boy friend.. and all the conflikt this gives her.

i hope the movie will somehov be translatet to english.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsor9rqcvwm.

Awakened07

I think it's going to be a good movie, from the clips I've seen. It is also a movie that will unfortunately not be watched by JWs, unless they're already on the fringes.

One thing I could wish was different, would be that the main character didn't fall in love with a non-JW, but instead began to have doubts and researched those doubts and disassociated her/himself because of what he/she found. But obviously, that scenario wouldn't be as popular for a movie. It's just that by having the girl fall in love with a non-JW, it's easier for JWs to dismiss it, as they are already convinced that the reason people leave is because they are "overcome by lust" and just "have to sin" in some way or another. And that's just not the case. I'm living proof of that.

40

Why Should I Believe in God?

by hamilcarr in

jw
friends

?..because if you don`t,your going straight to hell!

!....there`s no beer in hell!

!..and..they play the tune "aiky breaky heart" all day long..it never stops!

Awakened07

You should believe in God because this means you get to spend eternity living in peace and happiness! Why take the risk of not believing and possibly ending up being tortured forever? Believe and experience His love and grace and mercy. Dont believe and share a room with the Devil. Imagine that.

You take the same risks by believing in your God. Your God has a set of rules you need to live by in order to be saved. You may say "No, He doesn't, we're saved by grace", but it's quite clear that to be a Christian, most Christians feel one has to live life according to certain standards. Other people (collectively) believe in hundreds or thousands of other Gods with the same conviction, and with their own rules or standards to follow. Chances are you are not following the standards of their Gods, and they're not following the standards of your God. So you will be doomed by their Gods, and they'll be doomed by your God. -Now, a Christian (or any believer - that's the point) will argue that that doesn't matter or even enter the equation, because they are following the True God, whereas all these other gods are false. But then so will all the others claim. It's not like a believer in another deity goes: "Oh, I know Christians are right, I just want to follow my God anyway". No, they actuallybelieve in it, just as much as any Christian. People may then say "Well, you should at least believe in the Creator" (and then often use that as a 'wedge' to sneak in their own God), but when you move down to that basic, non-religious level, there are pretty much no characteristics you can put on that Creator. You'll have no idea what this Creator's plans are, if anything. Any characteristic imposed on this Creator is just that; imposed. Guesswork. "Oh, but we have the Bible, telling us about the Creator's characteristics." Yes, and in so doing, we're back to the God with certain standards to follow, which other Gods also have that you don't follow. And around and around we go.

48

Do You Believe In "God" In ANY Way, Shape or Form?

by minimus in

jw
friends

does god exist at all to you?

Awakened07

I don't have anything profound to say; but I would have to say 'no'.

A part of me feels the need to add that I wouldn't mind believing in a God, and I could easily just decide to believe one exists, but I'm not sure why I should?

I'm not sure where to "put" him/her/it ("It" from here on). I guess I could put It in charge of one of the gaps in human knowledge, like the cause of the expansion of space-time. But God has been driven from gap to gap over the centuries, from being in charge of the weather, to swirling stars planets and galaxies around with Its "fingers", to creating every species; having to flee every time knowledge has filled the gap It used to occupy.

I don't know exactly how my television actually works, and instead of trying to find out, I coulddecide to believe there is an invisible garden gnome living inside it, spreading the images across the screen with its magic wand. My payoff would be that I then had an explanation for how the TV works, and didn't have to do much work to find out.

Which God should I believe in?

The aforementioned divine characteristics that were abandoned with new knowledge belonged to various religions throughout the times, and I could forget everything about religion, and just choose to believe in "the actual, true, existing God, whatever that may be", like I guess quite a few here do. But why? How? With no Bible, no Koran, no Vedic texts, no nothing, everything and anything I could use to describe this deity's characteristics would be my own guesswork; I would form the deity according to my own understanding of it. Well - I guess one could come to at least one logical conclusion about Its properties based on its creation (if it was a creating deity; but what else would it be?): It would necessarily have to be powerful and complex. - Loving, caring, forgiving? Well, if creatures here on earth could be said to reflect their Creator, one could find evidence of those things, but one could also find an equal amount of evidence to the contrary. - Caring for me personally; having a plan for my future? No way of knowing, but no signs to the affirmative either.

Still - my belief or lack thereof may be subject to change without further notice should anything profound change my current view of things. After leaving JWs, I don't care for dogmatic answers either way.

I should add more, but I have to go to bed. I see a few things I should probably change in this post, but I can't be bothered right now. Tomorrow perhaps.

67

Science is like the WTBTS...(always coming out with New Light)

by journey-on in

jw
friends

science has tried over the centuries to explain human existence, cosmology, and the nature of life.. at any given time in history, any number of theories have been postulated and the masses accepted them.

as fact because some great scientist came up with it and was able to baffle us/them with mathematical.

equations to "prove" it so.

Awakened07

However, religious "light" might also state a current "truth", but with new archealogical finds and better methods of evaluation developed, have legitimate reason to change the old light to "NEW LIGHT". Agree?

Archaeological finds are science though, not theology [edited to add: OK, I'll admit that 'theology', depending on the definition used, may encompass church history etc., where archeology can play a role, but in this context...]. In this thread's context, I would say that 'new light' pertains to religious 'revelation'; something supernatural. Proving historic accuracy of a religious text using new archaeological finds does not prove a supernatural origin of the text, nor prove the supernatural occurrences the text describes. The only exception I can think of, would be if archeology revealed a prophetic text that could be dated accurately to quite some time before the events described, and corresponding, accurately dated evidence from the time the prophecy was supposed to have been fulfilled. Religious 'new light' to me brings the meaning of examining religious scriptures, and solely based on those, come to a different conclusion than has previously been made - usually to do with something supernatural or 'religious' in nature, not historic. Remember also that the topic says "Science is like the WTBTS", so it's their brand of 'new light' we're discussing.

67

Science is like the WTBTS...(always coming out with New Light)

by journey-on in

jw
friends

science has tried over the centuries to explain human existence, cosmology, and the nature of life.. at any given time in history, any number of theories have been postulated and the masses accepted them.

as fact because some great scientist came up with it and was able to baffle us/them with mathematical.

equations to "prove" it so.

Awakened07

My point is that both are fallible and corruptible and we to be on guard and not to automatically accept what is shouted from the pulpits with wide eyed credulity.
Burn

We should of course have a healthy skepticism about science, as scientists themselves have (otherwise no scientist would have changed any already 'established doctrines'. Think of the 'awe' that must have surrounded the name Sir Isaac Newton, and yet still Albert Einstein was 'heretic' enough to challenge his ideas and build upon them based on new findings).

Science can at least be partially verified by anyone who wishes to do so by gaining some knowledge, like in astrology. So there's no need to 'accept everything with wide eyed credulity'. With religious revelation however, you have to blindly trust the understanding of the person with the new religious understanding. One can check the Bible of course (if it's a Bible-based faith), but the Bible can be understood in a multitude of ways (and if you say 'No' to that, I wonder where all Bible-based religions and denominations come from?).

67

Science is like the WTBTS...(always coming out with New Light)

by journey-on in

jw
friends

science has tried over the centuries to explain human existence, cosmology, and the nature of life.. at any given time in history, any number of theories have been postulated and the masses accepted them.

as fact because some great scientist came up with it and was able to baffle us/them with mathematical.

equations to "prove" it so.

Awakened07

LOL... 'Nazi'... Any 'good' debate has to mention it at least once, eh?

The problem is that science is practiced by humans, and in human institutions.

-As opposed to...?