Posts by ANewLeif

45

Are You A Pharisee? No? Are You SURE? :-)

by FireNBandits in

are you a pharisee?

have you ever wondered what the modern equivalent of a pharisee wearing a phylactery is?

(for those who dont know, a phylactery was a little box that ancient jews would secure to their forehead with a strap, and inside the box was the shema or other important scriptures.

ANewLeif

However, it is not Pharisaical to state whether a religion's dogma is Christian dogma. For instance, while a Zen Buddhist might also be a Christian, Zen Buddhist philosophy is not Christian. On the other hand, a good Muslim is not a Christian, the dogma precludes it.

In another thread Martin wrote, "AnEwLeif! Wow! I'm impressed! A brand new Pharisee has blossomed! I think if you try even harder you can find even more ways to shut the door to the Kingdom on many more people! What's your secret? Do you have Jesus in your hip pocket? Are you Omniscient? You must be. I think that's great. When I get my Pharisee Badge from Battle Creek Michigan I hope I can be even HALF as righteous and holy as you are. Judge Rutherford would be proud of you. Hell, I'M proud of you and I'm just an advanced piece of software being tested by the DOD."

I think Pharisee hunters like our friend Martin, here, often assume that every person who says someone is not a Christian also attaches a doctrine that non-Christians are destined for destruction and cannot have God's favor or any number of other dismal outcomes for the non-Christian. Such an assumption about the beliefs of others may not be Pharisaical, but it is certainly prejudiced. Hats off to you, Martin! You have proven that one need not be a Pharisee to be a judgemental pr**k.

ANL

64

Why do dubs act as if 1975 wasn't failed prophesy or misleading?

by NotaNess in

from the evidence i have found, it was all but etched in stone.

so why try and defend the wts by saying "they never stated armageddon would be in 1975", as one witness tried to throw back at me.. seems that you could show them all the evidence in the world of this false organization, and it will repel right off them.

is there some sort of "force field" kool-aid they're serving at the halls?.

ANewLeif

Mad,

You wrote, "Now there are probably others giving excuses- but it was simply the imagination of one of our writers!"

When an organization promotes itself as God's sole channel of communication and promotes its magazines as the primary vehicle for distributing communication through that channel, that organization had better fully accept the weighty responsibility it takes on itself. I can quote you dozens of articles that say that all Jehovah's Witnesses should eagerly heed the leadings of God through His organization. In other words, they put faith in the imagination of one of the writers because they were told to do so.

You cannot excuse the organization on the basis you are using without calling sharply into question if it is God's channel of communication. If it is, then God is apparently incapable of making or unwilling to make sure the message is conveyed properly. If it isn't, as I suspect, then those charlatans have much to answer for.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

I thought JWs hold there doctrine up to a higher standard of Scriptural integrity than other religions. The responses I am getting seem to indicte that they do not. Many seem willing to forgive doctrinal error among JW doctrine on the basis of doctrinal error in other religions. If that is the case, why is it any better to be a JW than any other religion?

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

yadda-yadda,

You said, "Nonsense. Anyone that confesses faith in Jesus Christ, believes that he is their personal saviour and redeemer and obeys his commandments is a Christian."

Not according to Jehovah's Witnesses. The criteria for being a Christian, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, is much more extensive than yours. Did you really not know that?

Even then, how can Jehovah's Witnesses believe someone is their personal savior to whom they cannot even speak? At best, such a savior is an impersonal savior. JWs teach all but 144,000 are only saved by extension, only the elect are directly redeemed ("bought from the earth"). Therefore, the vast majority are not saved by a personal savior at all.

Among Jehovah's Witnesses, Jesus is not even considered the mediator for any but the 144,000. How can these people possibly believe they are Christians?

In answer to the rest of your concerns, I already wrote to qcmbr that I wasn't addressing every religion and comparing every religion to the entire Bible. I was addressing Jehovah's Witnesses, as a religion, and comparing its doctrine specifically to the First Century Christians.

If your contention is really that JWs are no different than nearly every other mainstream Christian religion when it comes to having doctrines that disagree with the Bible, I would agree but for one fact: JWs do not believe any other religions are Christians or that any adherents to other religions are Christians. While there are some other religions that hold similar doctrine, most Christian religions do not.

You wrote, "Those in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones when it comes to doctrine."

I don't live in a glass house. I don't establish doctrine and then declare that anyone who disagrees with my opinion on Scripture will be eternally destroyed at Armageddon. I don't haughtily declare that I am God's sole channel of communication on earth, doctrinally shortening the hand of God and limiting the power of the Holy Ghost for millions of people. I don't say that everyone who rejects that authority is anathema.

Any criticism I have of JW doctrine is always held in my mind against that specific backdrop. Unlike most other churches, JW dogma is held to be inviolable on pain of disfellowshipping.

Their wanton hubris will be their downfall.

ANL

24

When is the Special Talk?

by tinker in

jw
friends

my son invited me but i lost the email.

he is giving the talk...yikes!.

ANewLeif

Elsewhere, shame on you! There is no comparison between the JW beliefs and sweepstakes. People actually win sweepstakes from time to time.

ANL

42

I scammed a Craigslist scammer!

by moshe in

i had a dresser for sale on craigslist and as so often occurs some guy wants to buy it and have his shipper pick it up- i emailed him and told him that craigslist says he had the m-o of a crook.. he emails me back and say he is still interested and will pay the fullprice, so i changed the emailed header from re: dresser $55 to re: dresser $955 and emailed back was he ok with the price and how did he want to pay for it.

his english has the syntax of someone who uses it as a 2nd language- he never saw or the mentioned the price change i did!.

so, true to form he was going to send me a cashiers check - for $3000 and i was to keep out my money and then send a western union mailgram for the difference to the shipper in a city 300 miles away- .

ANewLeif

Oriental guy's name spelled backward. LOL!

I have a new hero.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

Qcmbr,

IF JWs had a doctrine that included divine revelation as being the source of their doctrines that differ from the First Century then your point would have merit. In their case, they have no such doctrine of divine revelation. They specifically state that they have not had such revelations in modern times.

I was not attempting to address the problematic doctrines of every religious faith, nor to compare JWs to any currently existing religion. I was attempting to address the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses. I understood that to be the purpose of this forum. I was also comparing their doctrine and behaviors to the doctrine of known Christians in the First Century. JWs accept the book of Acts as a factual relation of events in the First Century and accept the canon of Scripture that comprises the Authorized Version of the Bible. Other religions that do not obviously cannot be weighed by the same measures.

Regarding circumcision, I would not be forced to hold the Mosaic covenant as binding if I am not a Jew. To impose that was ludicrous to all but recently converted Jews, which I have never been. My logic does not impose upon me the standards of the OT. The OT was not written for Christians, but for the Jews. Dozens of parctices of Judaism have not been handed down through Christianity because they make no sense for Christians. We were freed from the burden of the written law by its fulfillment. Our law code is written by spirit upon hearts; not handed down through organizational edicts in the Watchtower or through Papal bulls.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

If they used the name Yahweh, as in Yahweh's Witnesses, they would be properly called Yahwists.

They do not come in the name of Christ Jesus, they are not persecuted in the name of Jesus, they do not endure in the name of Jesus, they do not call on the name of Jesus to be saved, they do not request that Lord Jesus receive their spirit, they do all these in the name of Jehovah. They are not Christians. They are Jehovists.

kwr, can you really demonstrate an error in what I posted about them, or can you only keep asserting the same unfounded proclamation that JWs are Christians? The latter seems to be the case. In that event, you aren't discussing the Scripturally supported points I raised you are just preaching your own unsupported contrary opinion.

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

kwr,

If a group is not characterized by what Christians were and are doctrinally not allowed to do what Christians did, then they are not Christians, regardless of whether they self-identify as Christians.

I am not a dog. Even if I call myself a dog you can plainly tell that I am not a dog. How? By comparing me and my behaviors to known dogs and discerning the many points of contrast.

Apply the same comparitive logic to JWs and you will quickly prove to yourself that they are not Christians. What positive measure do you use to assert that they are a Christian group?

ANL

61

Christians could and did. Can JWs? Do they?

by ANewLeif in

there are many things the bible says christians could do and things the bible describes christians doing that, according to their doctrine, jws can't do.. christians could talk directly to jesus.

(acts 7:54-60; acts 9:3-16) can you?

christians could decide for themselves which days they chose to observe without any fear of religious retribution.

ANewLeif

kwr,

I am not attacking the people. I am addressing the religion's doctrine. My contention is that the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses disallows JWs from being Christian; the doctrine prevents them from doing what Christians do. There were good and bad Jews as well, but no one argues that good Jews were Christians. There are also good and bad Islamists, but they are not Christians.

I do not suggest that all non-Christians are bad people. If you read that into what I wrote it came from your own mind, not mine.

ANL