Posts by flipper

87

Did you get " Counseled " about the Music you Listened to While you were a JW ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.

beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.

i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .

flipper

O.K. Page 1 responses first and I'll gradually get caught up here. Interesting discussion ! Keep the comments coming ! Thanks for your input !

JUANDEFEIRO- Amazing that your parents let you listen to SOME rock music groups- but not others. Like they knew what they were talking about. And what the hell was the " brother " from Bethel talking about the song " Break on Through " meaning the flood of Noah's day ? I swear we can't make this stuff up- it's so bizarre !

OUTLAW- Funny picture ! Thanks for sharing.

JRK- Hey bro ! Nice hearing from you. I know you're a huge music fan like myself I bet you got harassed constantly. An elder got mad at you for listening to a song called " Constipated Duck " ? Perhaps he was having some " stuck up " issues himself and the theme was too personal for him ! LOL. You and OTWO are going to see Jethro Tull ??!! Oh I'm SOOO envious . I wish I could join you guys. Tull's one of my top ten all time favorite groups ! Have a great time ! I'll be there in spirit . Think of me when they sing " Aqualung " you know- " snot running down his nose ". " Watching the pretty panties run ". That's cool that your mom says " Rolling Rocks " for " Rolling Stones " - pretty good.

144THOUSAND_AND_ONE- WT showed a film with the Sex Pistols on it ? What's the world coming to ? LOL.

BLONDIE- Exactly what you say. We could show the elders and other WT powers that be countless proof that classical musicians were immoral or had bad habits- but they'd still try to deny it and put rock n' roll music down claiming all rockers are bereft of any morals. I know of quite a few rock artists like Donovan and John Paul Jones of Zeppelin who have been married to the same woman for over 40 + years now. WT leaders believe what they want to believe and deny what they want to deny. Did none of those elders ever watch the movie " Amadeus " ?

SIR 82- I saw that a lot when I was a JW also- many C.O.'s bashing rock music from the stage at Circuit assemblies. I just thought they were crazy idiots. I ignored them.

TALESIN- I'm glad to hear that you hid your music ! Smart young woman you were- and still are ! I truly believe listening to The Moody Blues, The Beatles, and Led Zeppelin actually saved my life as well growing up as a JW teenager and assisted me to NOT lose my independent thinking ability. Like yourself- I was always a rebel at heart ( still am ) and I cannot stop railing against injustices. And I really believe that listening to not only rock music, but lots of Bob Marley and Reggae music solidified my resentment towards established religion, politics, and corporate corruption.

FINKELSTEIN- Good points. Rock music IS a rebellion against injustices of society indeed. And my older parents too listened to Benny Goodman, Lawrence Welk and all the easy listening stuff of years gone by. Interestingly enough although my older dad hates rock music, even songs that I write- my 88 year old mom really enjoys rock music to a good extent and she loves the songs I write. Go figure. I guess one size doesn't fit all. LOL.

BARROLD BONDS- So you experienced the strict counsel also in the 1990's ? Yeah a lot of rap and alternative was just coming into mainstream popularity then so I bet lots of young JW's got jumped on about it.

BRANDNEW- Great for you to play " Wild Thing " pulling out of the kingdom hall. Good job ! I'm sure that got their attention ! LOL

87

Did you get " Counseled " about the Music you Listened to While you were a JW ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.

beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.

i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .

flipper

Hey Thanks for all the great comments and experiences ! Finally got a couple days off from work and business to reply to each of your comments. First though- here's another crazy experience back in 1982.

As some might remember the WT had an article that talked about allegedly " demonic " elements in rock music, talking about listening to alleged " hidden messages " as some of you mentioned here. Even naming groups like Queen, Led Zeppelin, etc. to " beware " of. Really stupid controlling articles.

Well- We were at this one couples house who had some albums from Earth Wind and Fire in which it had the two sided pyramids on it and the Egyptian alleged " male " fertility symbol - you know with the loop and cross and the vertical shaft . This was after we had already discussed the articles at the WT Study . Anyway- The JW husband picks up the Earth Wind and Fire albums and says to his wife, " Honey, Satan's been doing a RAIN dance in our house ! Look at these demonic symbols on the albums ! " Then he hurled his Earth Wind and Fire albums into the burning fire in their fireplace !

The amount of unreasonable and needless fear that these WT articles caused was ridiculous. As some of you mentioned- then individual JW's started ratting each other out to elders and snooping in on their fellow JW's record collections. Almost like people started going on a freaking witch hunt in order to cross a person's musical and personal boundaries. Makes me so glad most of us here have escaped the JW cult

87

Did you get " Counseled " about the Music you Listened to While you were a JW ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

from the time i was a small boy - i loved rock n' roll music.

beatles, rolling stones, led zeppelin, hendrix.

i started getting slighted for the music i listened to as i lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to led zeppelin's song " black dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as i'm rocking out .

flipper

From the time I was a small boy - I loved rock n' roll music. Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Hendrix. You name it . I started getting slighted for the music I listened to as I lay in my bedroom listening on headphones to Led Zeppelin's song " Black Dog " at age 14 with my elder dad looking suspiciously at me as I'm rocking out .

Then one time coming home from attending a Giants-Dodgers baseball game at age 18 an elder in the car told me in no uncertain terms that the lyric in the group Golden Earring's song " Radar Love " was bad because it said, " when she gets loaded and I'm sure she's had enough " - then I corrected the jerk and told him the lyric went , " when she gets LONELY and I'm sure she's had enough " . Very frustrating. The power mongers just LOOK for negative things to nail us on. On another occasion I had some freakish " brother " come up to me and say to me, " Flipper ! You know the song by the Moody Blues called " Knights in White Satin " ? " I said, ' Yeah, I love that song ! " He continued , " Well it's called KNIGHTS in White Satin because it's promoting homosexuality with Knights becoming intimate with each other in white satin sheets ! "

I swear to God you can't make this stuff up. I corrected him quickly and stated, " It's " NIGHTS in White Satin " you dolt and it's about a man being lonely for love if you listen to the context of the song ! " These are the types of JW's I had to deal with growing up in this cult. Idiots who thought they knew everything - but actually didn't know squat. Then the icing on the cake was when I was about 30 years old and had stepped aside as a Ministerial Servant a few years earlier - I had another " brother " a MS himself ask my then JW wife , " Do you think Flipper doesn't progress in the " truth " because he listens to rock n' roll music ? Has that prevented him from being a Ministerial Servant again ? "

The JW's that I was surrounded by- had NO idea whatsoever about " boundaries " or how to mind your own damned business ! One reason I'm so glad to be away from those kinds of intruding people. Now I'm happier writing my own rock n' roll , blues, folk or whatever goddamned songs I want to write - WITHOUT interference ! Life is beautiful !

I would love to hear about YOUR experiences of the elders or other JW's questioning your music while you were a JW . Anybody have some sordid tales to tell ? Let's hear them ! Take care everybody. Peace & love, Flipper

30

Do Witness children die from not taking blood?

by juandefiero in

yes - awake!

1994 may 22 p.2 youths who put god first (3-15).

"in former times thousands of youths died for putting god first.

flipper

" Do Witness Children Die from Not Taking Blood ? "

Do chickens lay eggs ? Is Donald Trump an asshole ? I think the answer is pretty obvious. Yes, thousands of JW children have died over the years from not receiving life saving blood transfusions

24

Df brother in shock I spoke to him at kh

by poopie in

jw
friends

i was vis it in a kh last night and i just thought i try something new.

when amen was said i bolted out hall low and behold there was anot her poor soul just ahead of me so since he did not know me but i knew he was df i said a greeting to him he seemed greatabsolutely shocked and horrified thst i was speaking to him he acknowledged my greeting and scurried off in t i the night it was a great moment for humankind..

flipper

Good for you in being kind and showing true human empathy to him. Two thumbs up. However isn't it so sad that the reason he scurried off from your greeting is because he is in FEAR of anyone seeing him shirking his so-called " discipline " in case the elders hear about it and get pissed off at him and not reinstate him ? It shows truly that the JW organization is built on fear and guilt. Oh- And two more things money and greed

30

Do you think JWN members would be surprised if they got to know you in real life?

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

i don't think you'd recognise me much at all.

i'm a royal mail postman, i love my job for the early starts and midday finish, the outdoors and the exercise.. i get on with people but i'm quite insular and don't enjoy crowds.

i'm happiest when i've fired up the charcoal and i'm making souvlaki or adana kebabs for my family and a few close friends.

flipper

Interesting thread. I don't think anybody would be too surprised - I'm pretty much an open book kind of guy- what you see is what you get - no hidden agendas anywhere- I just live in the here and now and am pretty laid back with a quirky off the wall type of humor. My wife has a great sense of humor as well. I just enjoy having fun with folks on the board here and everywhere - most all of us have fun at the Lake Tahoe gathering each year. Woops there I go plugging for Tahoe again- but it was an " out in the open " agenda- not hidden. LOL. Everybody is invited to come ! The more the merrier ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

5

Some elders tactics during my fading (appeal to emotion and circular reasoning)

by redpilltwice in

first of all, hats off and thank you to all the wonderful and intelligent people i've met and observed on this incredible forum.

it's about time to share some more experiences regarding my recent fading, which began end september.

not very spectacular i think, but reckonizable maybe.

flipper

Redpilltwice- Thanks for sharing your experience - very interesting. Typical WT elder responses though. The statement, " the desired WT answer became the evidence itself , no matter how strong the case for a better, more truth based answer may have been ! "

And the reason for that is the WT Society appointed elders are under the influence of cult mind control from WT leaders. Elders are also victims of the " Stockholm Syndrome " where they will obey ANY directions from WT leaders - even IF those directions are illegal and breaking the laws of the land. Especially in regards to hiding child abuse within JW ranks. Elders aren't interested in discovering the truth- just interested in obeying the governing body so they don't lose their elder's positions. Some of these guys get no recognition in the real outside world- so they salivate at the mouth to be considered " important " or " recognized " even if it means selling out the chance to accept real truth to do so. They become accomplices with any unethical actions the WT Society GB takes. Really sad . They don't even realize that they are enslaved. Their minds have been turned into silly putty molded by WT Society rhetoric. Be glad we are free thinkers my friend ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

3

New lyrics to a song, are they too strong? looking for feedback

by Greybeard in

jw
friends

i’m addicted to love.

i’m addicted to the big o .

so all you hypocrites .

flipper

Nice job Greybeard. Powerful lyrics but songwriters need to openly express themselves. I've written several songs about gaining freedom from the WT organization that are quite direct as well. Leave no stone unturned my friend. You are healing yourself in a therapeutic manner and we never know who else we may help to heal in the process. Feel no guilt, feel no fear, feel, live, and write about freedom of mind. I've got a song right now cooking in the oven titled " Tear off These Chains " I'm currently working on. Music is a healing force my friend continue to heal yourself and others ! Take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

121

Hey ya'll! My first post. Please help. In need of advice/comfort.

by Stepford Wife in

jw
friends

hey ya'll!

i have been lurking for years on this site and others but never had the courage to post anything.

actually i was afraid of posting on an apostate site in the event i was wrong.

flipper

Stepford Wife - You certainly have your hands full- and that's putting it mildly. I agree with many here who say NOT to meet with the elders. They are trained by the WT Society to coerce you into a corner and box you in until they get you to spill the beans with information they can nail you with so as to judge you worthy of a judicial committee. It's true that they will TRY to find something to use against you in order to justify bringing you up for a JC meeting. So don't meet with them, just tell them you are doing fine on your own and that if you ever need their help- you will let them know in the future.

Also- Seriously think about your husband crying if you took a life saving blood transfusion . I mean WTF ? That tells you all you need to know about where the WT organization is in HIS priorities in life and the fact that he's more concerned about losing his elders position than his wife losing her life ! Did I say the WT Society is a high control , mind control organization - if I didn't I just did. This organization steals away ANY authentic, humane, empathetic personality that people have and replaces it with a WT Society first personality that loses all manners , civility , or ethical treatment of others. Your husband is seriously controlled.

If you intend to make your marriage work in spite of your differences I would suggest not talking to the elders and even staying low on your husbands radar concerning talking to him about your doubts. If you don't World war 3 may begin and your marriage will be on a short leash. Unless of course you WANT to blow the whole thing up- then speak your mind and talk away . Your future is in your hands to some extent. We are here as a support to you my friend, it's not easy I know- been there done that. Been out of the Witnesses going on 13 years now- happiest times of my life . Hang in there, take care, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

46

Books I read when I deprogrammed

by OrphanCrow in

jw
friends

blondie suggested someone start a thread with a list of books that are valuable to read when exiting the jws.. i will start.. i left the jws way back in the early 70s and didn't actually deprogram until into the 80s.. one of the first books i read was "the orwellian world of jehovah's witnesses" by gary and heather botting.

canadian exjws from calagary.

an excellent book and one that still resonates with young people today.

flipper

I agree with Sail Away and another poster who stated Steve Hassan's 3 books really helped them. In fact I would say that Steve Hassan's books helped me move on from the JW cult even more so than Ray Franz's books- Franz's books just confirmed my suspicions about what was going on behind the scenes at WT headquarters- Hassan's books helped me to understand HOW the WT Society was able to pull off the mind control over us- helped me understand the whole psychology behind mind control.

I feel Hassan's books are a MUST read for every exiting JW to thoroughly understand how they were duped . It also helps a person understand that ANYBODY can be mind controlled and assisted me to forgive myself for taking until age 44 to wake up and exit.

Steve Hassan's 3 books are : 1. Combatting Cult Mind Control copyright 1990 2. Releasing the Bonds- Empowering People to Think for Themselves copyright 2000 3. Freedom of Mind - Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults and Beliefs.

I feel that if more exiting JW's and DFed JW's read Hassan's books they would be less inclined to go back to the WT organization Jehovah's Witnesses as they would see the reality of WT mind control techniques and be aware of how they were deceived. I find it amazing many times that an ex-JW can still be under WT mind control YEARS after leaving the JW cult. To me- it always comes back to not informing or educating themselves about the reality of how serious WT mind control has infected their minds. Once a person is aware of it and admits it- only then can they move on in life- in my opinion