flipper

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Posts by flipper

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  47

  Are we participants in this forum because of bouts of "loneliness"?

  by Wonderment in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i wonder how many of us here hold on to this meeting place out of "loneliness.

  could it be that we harbor feelings of "abandonment" and "loneliness" from being left cold and dry by the wt people and our families?

  perhaps we do have a need to reach out to people with similar experiences.

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  flipper

  What Lisa Rose said- excellent
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  44

  Decrease of numbers in Jehovah's Witnesses via Deaths, DFings, or Turning Inactive

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i'm sure a good number of us saw the chart that i believe the poster splash put on another thread of figures since 1990 regarding how many baptized and % of increase each year .

  i started analyzing it ( and i know some referred to it briefly on the other thread ) and guessing of reasons the % of increase didn't match the number of newly baptized.

  and of course common sense tells us that either jw's leave the cult each year through death, fading into inactivity, or getting dfed.

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  flipper

  Lots of VERY interesting points all of you folks bring up. I appreciate your comments ! I don't have time to respond to each person today - I have to work for a couple days out of town but I agree with Old Hippie in his observation that there are so many variables involved in these numbers that it's impossible to nail the numbers correctly or totally accurately. Jw's leave, then they come back and leave again- very true. And I like Lisa Rose's way of estimating the numbers over the long haul period of time from 12 % in 1986 to 1995 as compared to that exit rate increasing to 41 % from 1996 to 2005. I truly believe the WT Society really screwed themselves with the 1995 change in the new " generation theory " and it pissed off a fair number of JW's to leave.

  Also what One Eyed Joe said about the numbers getting baptized will lag somewhat behind the number of new publishers is very true- although those numbers somewhat tend to catch up if some of those unbaptized publishers take the desperate plunge into the pool getting dunked at assemblies . It's an interesting thought.

  Just for shits and giggles let's say that of the 3,000,000 JWs or so that appeared to possibly leave from 1990 to 2015 comprised of 1,000,000 witnesses dying that would leave about 2,000,000 over 25 years that MAY have ( not etched in stone people keep your pants on ) exited willingly via inactivity, disassociation or ( unwillingly ) through Dfing . So that would comprise about 25 % of what the WT Society claims is in the JW cult at the moment 8,000,000. Over a 25 year period. Which would of course be substantial.

  Let's play the devil's advocate in a conservative way and say that even more JW's died in 25 years of that 3 million number. Let's say 1,400,000 for instance died physical deaths- that would result in 1,600,000 exiting the cult in a 25 year period which would comprise 20 % of the 8,000,000 the WT Society now claims are active JW's.

  Of course I'm talking out of the side of my mouth and ass here- I get that- don't buy any property or stake a claim to what I'm saying - but it does make for interesting speculation in wondering just how MANY of these ex-JW's STAYED ex-JW's and are still out at present ? I'll take your observations and answers off the air . Gotta go get ready to go out of town. Please feel free to contribute your thoughts. I think it's great to brainstorm between us all and get different opinions. Thanks again , Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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  113

  I just found out that my youngest brother committed suicide

  by SnakesInTheTower in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my middle brother called me a couple of hours ago.

  our youngest brother, josh, who was 38, was found by his friends in his apartment.

  he hung himself.

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  flipper

  Rich - Just got home from working all night and my wife told me- I'm so sorry for your loss. We send our deepest condolences to you. If you ever want to talk my friend you might have my number still . If not PM me if you need a hearing ear. Sincerely, Mr. & Mrs. Flipper
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  47

  Are we participants in this forum because of bouts of "loneliness"?

  by Wonderment in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i wonder how many of us here hold on to this meeting place out of "loneliness.

  could it be that we harbor feelings of "abandonment" and "loneliness" from being left cold and dry by the wt people and our families?

  perhaps we do have a need to reach out to people with similar experiences.

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• 

  flipper

  Mrs. Flipper here - It was me who found this forum. Because of Flipper's family's awful behavior, I googled and got here. Had no clue how crazy the religion is.

  Found kind people on here who were very helpful. Have no use for religion but a strong belief in freedom, so have stayed on this board to assist others.

  But also because we have made great friends here. If the board shut down we would stay in touch for sure. There have been very few weirdos over the years

  I wish anyone here who is lonely would try to start or go to an "apostafest" or even meet for coffee.

  I'm not real social - really hate parties with polite chit chat. Painfully boring.

  XJW meetups are so different - these people have been through the wringer and don't waste time with superficial bs. They are sincere. Most also develop a good sense of humor.

  If you are lonely, pm someone you think well of. Several of our closest friends from here are way across the country so we talk on the phone.

  Mrs. F
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  47

  Are we participants in this forum because of bouts of "loneliness"?

  by Wonderment in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i wonder how many of us here hold on to this meeting place out of "loneliness.

  could it be that we harbor feelings of "abandonment" and "loneliness" from being left cold and dry by the wt people and our families?

  perhaps we do have a need to reach out to people with similar experiences.

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  flipper

  WONDERMENT- This is an excellent thread, thanks for posting it. I do come here to receive support and give support and friendship back. Like some others here have stated - yes- I am very lonely at times kind of in a universal sense . I mean I have a loving wife ( who was never a JW ) who has helped a lot with getting over the cult and it's phobia's - but being raised by a strict elder dad and not exiting the Witnesses until age 44 over 12 years ago - has really done a number on my self esteem at times. I was always made to feel by my elder dad and older elder brother that I never measured up to amount to anything. And I was never acknowledged from either of them for doing anything of value in my life. Fortunately I received tons of compliments from my mom who is the one who built up my self esteem that my dad tore down.

  Not to get too wordy in giving a psychological analysis of myself - LOL - I have been " dumped " by both of my JW daughters 28 and 27 years old - so far I still have not been allowed to see my only grandchild , my JW daughters new boy and he is a month old. Even in spite of sending my daughter a gift card with $ 100.00 in it- no thank you, no acknowledgment whatsoever. I have a great relationship with my 30 year old non-JW son and we are close- but he lives about 2 hours away and is busy with work and college which I'm happy for. So yes, I feel a sense of huge loss with my two daughters- it's been about 12 years since they've done anything close to " association " with me doing something fun like most " normal " families do.

  I only had a couple close JW friends when I was in and those relationships are long gone now too the last 10 years or so. For which I'm thankful as they were " conditional" relationships based on whether I attended meetings or got back in the cult. Which ain't gonna happen. But this board was really a lifeline for me and I've made so many great friends here with many of you wonderful people so yes this board really assists me in my feelings of loneliness and helps rebuild my self esteem to see that I do have something valuable to offer.

  My wife would often wonder why I had some doubts about how other people viewed me and I tell her it was because the JW cult sucked out my self confidence. So I worked hard over the years to restore my self confidence and trust that do have valuable assets and qualities that I can give back to people in my life not only here to people but other non-JW's in my life as well. Playing guitar and writing songs these last 4 years has been a REAL help in my healing process as well.

  A deep thank you to Simon for this board and Wonderment for the thread. Simon- You don't even realize how many lives you have changed and/or saved by keeping this board going- including my life my friend - keep the great , beautiful work up - you are saving and changing lives for the better. O.K. I better stop writing as I'm starting to tear up now. The Flipper softy part of me is getting exposed. LOL
• 
  4

  Another JW Pedo

  by wannaexit in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  http://globalnation.inquirer.net/132061/filipino-in-hawaii-gets-1-year-prison-term-for-molesting-boy#ixzz3s0obqim9.

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  flipper

  It's disgusting that this piece of filth child molester is only getting one year in prison. There needs to be stricter sentences in Hawaii and elsewhere for sure
• 
  9

  Leah Remini's book, "Troublemaker"

  by DisArmed in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  just finished leah remini's book, "troublemaker.

  " very good book that easily resonates, i'm sure, with anyone who has exited a cult.

  her life in scientology and eventual exit was a nightmare.

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  flipper

  We saw the 20/20 interview with Leah and it was very exposing about the abuses, similar to " Going Clear " on HBO but not as long time wise. I'm definitely going to purchase this book and read of her experiences. It may indeed give me some ideas about eventually reaching my JW daughters still in the JW 's. Peace out, Mr. Flipper.
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  44

  Decrease of numbers in Jehovah's Witnesses via Deaths, DFings, or Turning Inactive

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i'm sure a good number of us saw the chart that i believe the poster splash put on another thread of figures since 1990 regarding how many baptized and % of increase each year .

  i started analyzing it ( and i know some referred to it briefly on the other thread ) and guessing of reasons the % of increase didn't match the number of newly baptized.

  and of course common sense tells us that either jw's leave the cult each year through death, fading into inactivity, or getting dfed.

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  flipper

  Thanks for the comments ! And especially a thanks to THE GIRL NEXT DOOR for making the chart more legible into a much neater chart than I did in the initial thread ! LOL !

  CRAZYGUY- That's a very good question that you ask . I'm not sure if a person is just counted only once as a publisher - but- just separately counted as a person newly baptized or if both are counted in the increase. It is kind of confusing. I'm honestly not sure how they count it. Maybe someone can clue us in on it.

  HOSER- Yeah. I've heard that the WT Society fudges on lots of the numbers. Wow, with those attendance figures you shared- it really shows that the numbers attending are definitely going down.

  DBQ 407- That's interesting to see what you say about baptism numbers going way down at assemblies now. I haven't attended meetings or assemblies since 2003 so I'm really out of the loop as far as knowing what the attendance or baptism figures are. But like you say I remember years ago that yes- about 25 or so would get baptized each circuit assembly that I attended and now about 0 - 4 ? That's quite a drop , thanks for sharing that info.

  LISA ROSE- That's interesting what you say about the mortality rate per 100,000 people each year in the U.S. I'll have to figure that out. Thanks !

  HEAVEN- So you've had a lot of JW family that's died over the last 40 years + or so. My condolences to you on your losses. Interesting. I'm just curious how the deceased numbers stack up against those exiting while still alive ? I'll have to add up Lisa Rose's suggestions.

  POSSOM- That's another very valid question that you ask - " Do they inactive/faders as actually leaving if they don't leave officially through disassociation or dfing ? Another very good question I don't have the answer to.

  THE GIRL NEXT DOOR- Thank you so much for providing the clear reading chart done much better than mine for sure ! Good job. Thanks for the clarification of being inactive for 6 months putting a person into the exit column. That makes sense. Thanks, Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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  44

  Decrease of numbers in Jehovah's Witnesses via Deaths, DFings, or Turning Inactive

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i'm sure a good number of us saw the chart that i believe the poster splash put on another thread of figures since 1990 regarding how many baptized and % of increase each year .

  i started analyzing it ( and i know some referred to it briefly on the other thread ) and guessing of reasons the % of increase didn't match the number of newly baptized.

  and of course common sense tells us that either jw's leave the cult each year through death, fading into inactivity, or getting dfed.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  flipper

  O.K. So I'm sure a good number of us saw the chart that I believe the poster Splash put on another thread of figures since 1990 regarding how many baptized and % of increase each year . I started analyzing it ( and I know some referred to it briefly on the other thread ) and guessing of reasons the % of increase didn't match the number of newly baptized. And of course common sense tells us that either JW's leave the cult each year through death, fading into inactivity, or getting DFed. So they stop reporting field service time. If you subtract the amount of increase from the number who were baptized I believe it gives a good picture of how many possibly exited each year via death, Dfing, or inactivity

  If there are other ways they eliminate themselves from the mix please let me know ( like become aliens or something Joking ) . So I just wanted to post these numbers and invite comments from you folks to see what you think :

  Year Inc. Bptzd, Exiting or Deaths

  1990-1991 261, 607 300,945 39,338

  1991-1992 193,967 301,002 107,035

  1992-1993 237,102 296,004 58,902

  1993-1994 204,205 314,818 110,613

  1994-1995 285,801 338,491 52,690

  1995-1996 213,874 366,579 152,705

  1996-1997 186,162 375,923 189,761

  1997-1998 288,719 316,092 27,373

  1998-1999 23,842 323,439 299,597

  1999-2000 123,072 288,907 165,835

  2000-2001 82,102 263,431 181,329

  2001-2002 186,979 265,469 78,490

  2002-2003 124,706 258,845 134,139

  2003-2004 83,781 262,416 178,635

  2004-2005 100,697 247,631 146,934

  2005-2006 127,615 248,327 120,712

  2006-2007 216,410 298,304 81,894

  2007-2008 166,589 289,678 123,089

  2008-2009 188,730 276,233 87,503

  2009-2010 194,877 294,368 99,491

  2010-2011 150,969 263,131 112,162

  2011-2012 123,327 268,777 145,450

  2012-2013 183,608 277,344 93,736

  2013-2014 235,591 275,581 39,990

  2014-2015 18,560 260,273 241,713

  So if you add up all the figures in the exiting column the last 25 years via DFing, inactivity, or deaths it adds up to a total of : 3,069,116 people who have left the JW cult the last 25 years through either death, DFing, or inactivity. I'm not sure how many of those are deaths- but I would assume it does not make up the greater portion of the 3 million number.

  I find it interesting that the highest exiting number occurred right after the 1995 debacle of the " generation " teaching fiasco and the 2nd highest number exiting came this last year after so much negative Internet WT Society news . So as always I invite any and all of your comments. This by no means is anything other than my own private numbers research for my own curiosity- so I'm not saying it means anything other than it appears the WT Society and JW's are losing members at a faster clip than I'm sure they want. I look forward to your comments. Peace & love to you all, Mr. Flipper
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  51

  My first post

  by thewalker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi, i just joined the board and wanted to present myself.. i'm active, in fact very active in congregation activities serving "where the need is great" in a foreign language congregation somewhere in western europe.

  as a young brother, i'm seen as an example as i'm doing all a good witness should do.. i had doubts years ago but i decided just to ignore them and move to another congregation to preach more.

  that worked for some years but i'm now at the exact same point.

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  flipper

  The Walker - Very nice to have you here ! Many of us have experienced the same things you have in seeing injustice in the organization and lack of real love. One of the reasons I stopped attending in 2003. Keep doing research on the Internet to discover some of the things going on behind the scenes within the WT Society such as the hiding of criminal child abuse and other injustices committed by WT leaders. You won't find this information at your weekly service meetings for sure. They don't want you to know. Keep informing yourself and research. Take care we are here as a support system to you friend