Such clever deception! Why not include enough of the context to see what was REALLY said?
the Mad JW
is the original bible texts accurate and preserved?
awake!, 1957, january 8, 1957 p. 25 "the evidence is, therefore, that the original text of the christian greek scriptures has been tampered with, same as the text of the lxx has been.
accurate & preserved.
Such clever deception! Why not include enough of the context to see what was REALLY said?
the Mad JW
this is my first post.. i was wondering if someone here can help me out.. i stopped attending meetings a while ago and i'm not comfortable with the idea of having the congregation elders in possession of my publisher card and other records.
would someone be willing to help me retrieve my records so i can just disappear completely from the jw-world?
perhaps someone here who is a current elder or an ex-elder?
Bwahahahaha! The Dramatics!
Your "Publisher's Card" is a harmless record for if you go to the hall...
There is NO danger! They will quickly forget about you.
the Mad JW
well it took them four years to find me at my current address, but they did it.
my bell rang today and guess who it was!
i had some time and thought to myself, sure why not.
Jeff wrote: "John 1:1 - If all the quotes you use to support the non-trinitarian version of God are sufficient to do so, why on earth did Freddy see a need to mistranslate John 1:1? Not a single reputable, non-biased scholar accepts the NWT rendering.
Mad replies: Not true, but that doesn't change the REAL meaning, Jeff! Why didn't you answer those references?
Don't kid yourself. The support for the trinity is overwhelming in the NT. The ante-nicean fathers were in agreement for centuries on the topic. The word Trinity was used to explain what they already knew, that the God-son Jesus expected, and accepted worship, never claimed to be a created being [like Michael the archangel], and explained that they should request that He himself would send the HS and that He himself would grant answers to prayer.
Mad replies: Yer puttin' me on! They were the beginning of the Catholic Church, who pulled in ALL kinds of Nonsense from other religions to pull in the masses to control and get money from! They reigned for almost two thousand yeard!
Further, in the Revelation, given by Jesus to John, Jesus refers to both Himself and the Father as the 'Alpha and Omega'. There has never been argument among trinitarian believers that Jesus' substance on earth was of a differing nature than that of the Father in heaven. His statements reflect those differences. No one had seen God the Father. But of course many have seen God the Son.
Mad replies: If you can't understand the BASIC scriptures- you'll NEVER understand Revelation!
Trinity or no Trinity. Perhaps not all that important. But the WTS taking idolatrous worship to itself - now that's a sin with a number. [Hint - Revelation 13:18]
No offense to you brother Mad - you know I love ya'.
Mad replies: Than keep the WTBS out of it, Jeff- they, as well as us ALL will have an accounting to Christ!
well it took them four years to find me at my current address, but they did it.
my bell rang today and guess who it was!
i had some time and thought to myself, sure why not.
Well at least you were honest - even if they didn't know enough to deal with your question!
Just in case you WANT to know what John 1:1 means, consider-
The REST of what the book of John says explains what the reference REALLY meant- here are just SOME examples:
1:18-No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(Many thousands saw Christ. "Only-Begotten son" was a human term God chose to help us understand Christ; a father has only One Son- who IS NOT THE FATHER!)
3:16-For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
( The clergy 'rewrite' it to say "God so loved the world that He Himself came Himself and died for man's sins")
5:22-For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23-That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father
which hath sent him.
24-Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into
condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(Notice that Christ HIMSELF says believing in His Father, as well, means life!) Who do YOU think his Father is???
36-But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear
witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37-And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. (Wait! Wasn't JESUS God?)
38-And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39-Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40-And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41-I receive not honour from men.
42-But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43-I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another
shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
44-How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
Are you familiar with the Hebrew word transalated as "God" (Elohim)? Think about how it's translated when Jehovah says MOSES is God!-
Exodus 7:1- Jehovah said to Moses, See, I have made thee God to Pharaoh; and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. (Darby)
Exodus 7: 1- A nd the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet. (KJV)
Was the Trinity really a Quinity, with Moses being the 4th God-Person????? (Following the 'logic' of the clergy - it woulkd be 'TRUE'!)
The simple TRUTH? Moses and Christ were God to mankind, simply because God spoke thru them- they represented God.
Make sense? Or are you off to some other references before thinking about these?
Agape,
the Mad JW
i wonder what it has to say?.
any ideas?.
All this seems academic- since they had no Hummers to transport important items across the vile wilderness the Jews were to cross. So the one safe 'vehicle' God knew they could make was likely an ARK- without Egyptian religious elements. Another example is the Temple. All religions had them- THEIR temple was just free of idols and items of the false religions.
the Mad One
i hear all the time how leaders justify why people should buy into and follow their guesses...and the whole defense is if you don't you have no faith.. what protects a "faithful" person from becoming prey to a self-exalted leader and their guesses?
or are the faithful meant to be prey or something?.
You must start with- and determine- what ARE facts!
Fact 1: God exists
Fact 2: Much can be learned about Him by the way things are made ( For example, we don't NEED color vision- but sure ENJOY it!)
Fact 3: The conscience indicates he wants to guide us; is there a further source of guidance?
Fact 5: The Bible is the ONLY book claimed to be inspired by God- that has the credentials!
Fact 6- is the toughest! What does it REALLY say? With the endless churches, philosophies- and human corruption, the only real way to discover that is tp pray for guidance, and
actually READ it!
Realise that the Truth & Mankind are TWO seperate entities!
Mad
when i suggested to my jw sister that the wts has caused so much pain and division in our family, she told me it was because my brothers and i had made the choice to leave.
we were responsible for the division---not the society.
we are the ones that chose to leave the love and protective shelter of jehovah's organization and we are the ones that have the choice to return to the fold.. i need an intelligent comeback, preferably one that will plant a seed, not one too sarcastic.
Tell them that you respect the Bible (if you DO), but that you do NOT worship the Watchtower Society!
the Mad JW
many leave because of it- yet isn't the truth and the wtbs seperate entities?.
the mad jw.
Do you know of any group that has a clear understanding of the prophecies?
Mad
i have heard a rumor that an elder or former elder was disfellowshipped because none of his siblings (6) baptized and all left the witlesses when they turned 18.. is it possible?
i'm afraid to ask anyone who may have knowledge of it because they will tell someone i had asked.. djk, of the leader of the pack class.
.
Oh boy! Taking rumors seriously, are you? That's a bad sign!
the Mad JW
in his book kingdom of god, john bright writes the following:.
although the new testament teaches us that the people of christs kingdom are his obedient followers, his church, there is never the slightest hint that the visibly existing church can either be or produce that kingdom.. there is no tendency in the new testament to identify the visible church with the kingdom of god.. the church that makes such an identification will soon begin to invite god to endorse its own very human policies and practices, will equate the people of god with those nice people who share its particular beliefs and participate in its services, and will reckon the advance of the kingdom in terms of its numerical growth.
but it will not be the new testament church!.
John Bright? I'm convinced! Will he pray for my soul? Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha!
the Mad JW