Posts by neverendingjourney

73

The con is completed - comments from the US branch's LDC chief

by sir82 in

jw
friends

recently attended a special assembly day.. guest speaker was thomas chicky, a member of the us branch committee and the head of the us ldc (which has replaced the rbcs).. the last talk of the day is scheduled for an hour.

it was the usual boring mumbo-jumbo.

he appeared to have blasted through his hour-long outline in just about 45 minutes, so he "treated" us to informal comments on recent developments.. he commented on the new wt complex in fishkill ny.. then he dropped the bomb (well, to anyone with ears and at least 2 functioning synapses).. the following is not a word for quote, but presents the gist of his comments:.

neverendingjourney

One of the most powerful pieces of information I learned during my gradual exit from this religion was the Assembly Hall Deficit Scam where the elders would agree to send the WT money that would create a deficit and would in turn prompt the attendees to cover the shortage.

It's not that the sums of money were that consequential considering the fact that there were usually over 1,000 people in attendance. It's the fact that they treated the flock with such disrespect. They couldn't let them know what was going on. They had to set up a ruse and keep it among the privileged elder class.

That's essentially what I see this as, just on a larger scale. The flock can't be trusted to peek behind the curtain and make the decision to contribute on an informed basis. No, instead you have to set up an elaborate con and keep the true motivations limited to a privileged inner circle.

If the CO or Bethel speaker had been frank and given some insight into the financial condition of the Watchtower I would have been inclined to give even more. I think that would be the case for most people. They're shooting themselves in the foot by carrying on this way, but I don't think they can help it. To the extent that I've had access to people at the higher levels of that organization, it's become clear to me that they viewed the rank and file with contempt. They set up these scams not because it will result in the most money, but because the flock can't be trusted and don't deserve the truth.

29

JW's arrogant as f...?!

by Alostpuppydog in

has anybody else noticed that almost all the jdubs are super arrogant?

i mean even from just the basic ones to especially the elders and the overseers omg.

they act like they are so high and mighty that you should just worship them.

neverendingjourney

When I was in I thought I was smarter than Einstein. Not in an arrogant way, but in a humbling way. As in: Einstein didn't have the privilege of knowing "the truth" but somehow I did. It's easy to see how that same thought process can lead to out-of-control arrogance.

That and the fact that looking back half of those a-holes couldn't make a name for themselves in the real world and abused the JW structure to attain social status and authority. It was usually accompanied by a mean self-esteem problem since deep down they were aware that they could never accomplish much outside of the confines of the JW world and the gullible followers who tolerated their tyranny.

141

Do You Remember When JWs Relished Explaining Their Beliefs?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i bet most witnesses could not explain their blood policy, their understanding of the slave, and even simple biblical doctrines....they are an embarrassment to any old timer..

neverendingjourney

he was trying to tell me how things has changed so much and how progressive the witnesses are.

I got a call from a JW whom I used to be very close friends with. His pitch was: "We have TVs in the Kingdom Hall now! And videos on the society's website and at the assemblies!"

Ah, okay, sign me up then.

The funny thing is, I remember being out in service with him years ago and going on about how "Jehovah's people" didn't need television or radio. Preaching door-to-door like Jesus did was the way to go!

141

Do You Remember When JWs Relished Explaining Their Beliefs?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i bet most witnesses could not explain their blood policy, their understanding of the slave, and even simple biblical doctrines....they are an embarrassment to any old timer..

neverendingjourney

There is very little internal consistency left.

James Penton laments the collapse of the doctrine's internal consistency in Apocalypse Delayed and that was written 30 years ago.

If we take a close look, it started falling apart soon after Knorr took over. Russell and Rutherford set the foundation and they've just been patching holes ever since. Freddie might have gotten a few things in at the last minute (most notably, the blood doctrine), but at some point the religion grew to a certain size where large, wholesale changes were no longer feasible.

39

Where Does It Say JWs Can't Read Pubs By Other Churches?

by Cold Steel in

can jws read publications by other churches?

or by atheists?

i've always heard these are apostate materials.

neverendingjourney

But what fascinates me about the Jehovah's Witnesses is that their faith is so great and their evidence is so sparse.

I used to think the exact same thing about Mormons: gold tablets, convenient visions about polygamy, Jesus preaching to Indians. How can those people believe such nonsense?

The hardest truths to see are often those that are right in front of our noses. How many wives fail to see their husband's infidelity that is obvious to the outside world? How many parents fail to admit that their son who has done multiple stints in prison is a lost cause and a bad person?

I'm nominally an atheist now (the existence or nonexistence of god is no longer a primary concern of mine) and all religions seem absurd to me, albeit some are far stranger than others.

43

If this system goes on.

by karter in

jw
friends

i heard my hard out jw sister say that for the 1st time in many years and i'm hearing more and more jw's saying that.

years ago when i was in they talked about the new system coming any minute..

neverendingjourney

I'm not sure my parents are the type of people who would have saved for retirement had they never become Witnesses, but it certainly didn't help.

My dad just decided to stop working 15 or so years ago in his early 50s. He didn't have a penny saved for retirement but he'd had enough. My mom continues working to this day. My dad eventually starting drawing social security when he turned 62. He's now a few months shy of 70.

My father's health is now such that he probably couldn't work anymore even if he wanted to. In the meantime, I dropped out of JWism in my early 20s and have been laser-focused the past 15 years on building a career.

It's a tough situation. Do I take some of my own resources that I have worked hard to obtain and hand it over to them? In some respects they deserve to reap what they've sown. They'll piss it away on nonsense anyway. On the other hand, they're my parents, I love them, and I don't want to see them struggling.

I've given them tens of thousands of dollars in monetary assistance over the years, and it hasn't really helped. Their house is still filthy and they continue making stupid decisions in every walk of life. At least JWism has provided a distraction.

138

Jehovah God is Real

by TakeOffTheCrown in

there are many on this site that do not believe that jehovah truly exists; that he is not a real being.

but, he is as real as next breath you draw into your nostrils.. some of you say that there is no evidence that he exists.

yet, none of you can prove that he does not exits.. cofty, (you come to mind), i appreciate that you have stated, without reservation, that you do not believe that god exists.. yet, you cannot prove it.. hope in jehovah..

neverendingjourney

neverendingjourney, do you pray for yourself or your family?

No, but I don't care either way whether you do. If you find peace in religion, more power to you so long as your religious views don't trample on my right to live as I see fit.

I was baptized in 1995 and was a regular pioneer at one point. I stopped attending meetings 10 or 11 years ago and haven't looked back. I was never disfellowshipped and I've managed to keep a good relationship with my JW family.

138

Jehovah God is Real

by TakeOffTheCrown in

there are many on this site that do not believe that jehovah truly exists; that he is not a real being.

but, he is as real as next breath you draw into your nostrils.. some of you say that there is no evidence that he exists.

yet, none of you can prove that he does not exits.. cofty, (you come to mind), i appreciate that you have stated, without reservation, that you do not believe that god exists.. yet, you cannot prove it.. hope in jehovah..

neverendingjourney

I believe in unicorns. Can you prove to me that unicorns don't exist?

Hope in unicorns.

93

Society's claim of Matt. 24:14 being fulfilled - What it could really mean

by Jourles in

i've had this thought for quite a while and wonder if fits with the recent talk about the wts claiming that matt.

24:14 has been fulfilled.

my thought was this --- in the wake of the recent cutbacks at bethel, scaling back of literature, and other cost cutting measures, could the wts be preparing the r&f for the complete or massive reduction of literature that would normally be placed with "householders?

neverendingjourney

This is quite the blast from the past. It was this specific thread that brought me to JWD and that consequently led to my wholesale rejection of JWism.

I had been inactive for a year or two, but I still received the occasional mass-distribution JW email by well-meaning but misguided witnesses. I had gone about 99% of the way in my rejection of the religion, but I didn't want to do anything that would foreclose the possibility of a return (like reading evil apostate material) in case I later decided my doubts were wrong and the witnesses had been right all along.

One day I received an email from a JW claiming that a Bethel speaker at an assembly had announced that Matt 24:14 had officially been fulfilled and now the end was really super close, just around the corner. Reading it made a small part of me panic and I wanted to confirm whether there was any legitimacy to the email without asking a JW since doing so would prompt all sorts of uncomfortable questions I didn't want to answer.

So I got on google and typed "Matthew 24:14 fulfilled," which brought me to this forum. I couldn't stop reading. I spent many sleepless nights reading thread after thread, confirming many of my suspicions, and obtaining relief from knowing that there were a lot of people like me who saw the same flaws I did. I wasn't alone. I wasn't going crazy.

That was 10 years ago. I went from spending hours a day on here to casually browsing topic headings a few times a month. Losing my faith was a traumatic experience, one that affects me to this day. I'll never be completely "normal." I gave the religion my best years and I've constantly been playing catch-up in my life trying to make up for some of the time I lost. All in all, I think the last 10 years have been good to me. The pain of leaving was well worth it in the end.

17

Young Ones Leaving

by pale.emperor in

in the congregation that i grew up in there were about 30 children under 16 (myself included).

as time went on they one by one slipped away from the meetings and most never got baptized.

of those 30 children only myself and two other girls stayed and got baptized.

neverendingjourney

In my area few of my contemporaries leave for good (I'm in my late 30s now). Most seem to be caught in this never-ending cycle of leaving and coming. The vast majority continue to believe on some level that it's the truth, which is a shame since they're never really able to move on and live a full life.

That's not to say the congregations are full of aspiring elders and pioneers. Most of them exist on the periphery of the religion, hating themselves to varying degrees for not having the self-control to be truly all-in.