Posts by neverendingjourney

79

I know 2 of the Elders on the Ray Franz JC

by James Jackson in

when i read coc, i was stunned that the 2 elders (theotis french & rob dibble) were on ray franz judcial committee.

i have known these men for over 20 years having done rbc and convention work with them.

they are still elders today which means they were in their early 30's(which is unheard of for a case of this importance to have inexperienced elders to sit on) on this committee.. without revealing myself, i have never tried(but have wanted to), ask them about their on having to judge a former gb member.. then out of the blue, about a year ago, i was mentioning how hard it is trying to get younger ones to volunteer to one of these elders, and he says"this is nothing compared to to sitting on the committee that had to disfellowship ray franz".

neverendingjourney

Unless you have been in my situation, it is hard to explain the mindset of a former longtime Elder(21 years), Regular Pioneer (14 years), one was at the top of his game, handling many responsibities on the Circuit and District level, serving on over 50 Judicial cases, including Appeal Committees, various Elder Schools (including Teaching parts in these schools), and even spending a week at Patterson for the COBE Kingdom Ministry School. I could go on but some of you guys are wearing me out!

I find the listing of organizational bona fides very strange now that I've been out for nearly a decade. Take this Theotis French fellow. He might have had an incredibly impressive resume that would have left me in awe when I was a witness, yet he's still a bus driver.

It's only within the confines of the cult that any of that matters. As far at the real world is concerned, it's meaningless gibberish. It doesn't make you more qualified than the next guy for a job at McDonalds.

I known people who once held high positions and have subsequently left the witnesses. I'm specifically thinking of a former bethelite and a former CO. Their linkedin pages now summarize their time spent in the witnesses as work in the "non-profit" sector, which is essentially a void and a liability. It must be a bitter pill to swallow.

30

Are they really that stupid

by moley in

jw
friends

i was recently approached by a couple of borg drones while i was walking my dog, and i thought why not, may plant a seed or two (how wrong was i).

there was no real logic to what they were saying but as i was in the local park the conversation started to veer to how wonderful nature was and how this was the work of a wonderful creator.

i did not let on i was a former witness and let them continue with their fairy tale of creation and how the vast multitude of animals shows a loving god at work blah blah blah...... but i digress, the converastion then turned to how evolution was false.. apparently to earth is only a few thousand years old, so i mentioned about the burgess shale, to be met with blank stares.

neverendingjourney

JW's don't teach that Earth is only a few thousand years old - obviously you met a couple who haven't been keeping up with Jah's chariot.

Not sure if there's been any "new light" on the matter, but as far back as ten years ago they taught the Earth was "thousands" of years old. In the years leading up to 1975, they taught that each creation day was 7,000 years old, so the Earth was less than 50,000 years old. After the resulting fiasco, the 7,000 year creative day idea stopped being taught in lieu of a generic "thousands of years" response.

Absent there having been some new teaching in the past few years (I haven't been keeping up), there was never really any support for the idea of an Earth that is millions of years old. The picked "thousands" very carefully. They never officially dropped the 7,000 year day. By saying "thousands" it was ambiguous whether they old teaching had been officially rejected.

30

Are they really that stupid

by moley in

jw
friends

i was recently approached by a couple of borg drones while i was walking my dog, and i thought why not, may plant a seed or two (how wrong was i).

there was no real logic to what they were saying but as i was in the local park the conversation started to veer to how wonderful nature was and how this was the work of a wonderful creator.

i did not let on i was a former witness and let them continue with their fairy tale of creation and how the vast multitude of animals shows a loving god at work blah blah blah...... but i digress, the converastion then turned to how evolution was false.. apparently to earth is only a few thousand years old, so i mentioned about the burgess shale, to be met with blank stares.

neverendingjourney

Yes.

23

recent watchtower article condemning catholic mediator between men and god

by oldregretfuljwx2 in

jw
friends

i'm researching for an article on religious torture, how the un condemns physical and psychological torture and how that applies to witness shunning and ran across the information below on mediatorship.

<a href="http://imgur.com/rrqt8ei"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/rrqt8ei.jpg" title="hosted by imgur.com" /></a> .

[url=http://imgur.com/rrqt8ei][img]http://i.imgur.com/rrqt8ei.jpg[/img][/url] .

neverendingjourney

In Apocalypse Delayed James Penton argues that the Witnesses, while giving lip service to the sola scriptura concept of Protestantism actually bear a closer resemblance to the Catholic Church, paricularly in their authoritarian structure. Their elevation of the governing body above all is strikingly similar to the magesterium of the Catholic Church, but the Witnesses would never admit to it.

After giving it some thought, I can't say I disagree.

16

My Satantic Smurf Scratch n' Sniff Stickers Story (True!)

by Phaedra in

jw
friends

back in the early 80s when i was around 9 or 10, my slightly-older best jw friend relished telling me all the latest scare stories she heard about the satanic smurfs popping off of wallpaper, cutting babies with sharp objects, and running through kingdom hall corridors swearing.

wide-eyed with no critical thinking skills at.

i listened and believed every single word.

neverendingjourney

I remember the smurf hysteria of the 80s as well. One of my favorites was that if you tried to burn a picture of a smurf, it wouldn't burn.

I was a small child then, but I remember my "worldly" cousin mocking me about it. He burned one right in front of me to make a point.

It's been so long ago and I was so litle that I don't remember much of anything else about that story, but I was easily suckered in by all the supposed demonism stories back then.

60

The hardship of being a gay Jehovahs witness.

by truthwillsetyoufree in

please spare a moment to consider the difiiculties faced by gay jehovahs witnesses.

i was raised and baptised as a very serious jw.

every waking moment of my day was lived for jehovahs and his organization and for nothing else.

neverendingjourney

Who could look forward to the "New System" if it meant they were going to have their sexuality changed?

That's an excellent point. I hadn't thought about it that way before.

As a straight man, it'd be like having the following exchange: "Hey, can't you just wait for the new system when you will finally be attracted to men and be able to have sex with them?" "Uhh..no thanks. Doesn't sound like any new system I would want to be a part of."

Why should the reaction be any different for gay men? Why would they look forward to having their own natual desires changed?

60

The hardship of being a gay Jehovahs witness.

by truthwillsetyoufree in

please spare a moment to consider the difiiculties faced by gay jehovahs witnesses.

i was raised and baptised as a very serious jw.

every waking moment of my day was lived for jehovahs and his organization and for nothing else.

neverendingjourney

I feel for you. I'd give you a hug if you were in front of me.

In my area, being gay was second to being an apostate. Even rumors of homosexuality would result in a person being ostracized. An elder once prayed and asked for Armageddon to get here so homosexuals could finally be destroyed. Even then I remember wondering what a gay Witness would have thought since being gay was not technically a sin (only acting out on it was).

It's a horrible place to be. Hopefully you've moved on with your life. Being gay and a Witness can only lead to debilitating emotional issues.

Best of luck to you.

26

Convention Hotel "list"- Free rooms for JW/WT "dignitaries"?

by Darth Fader The Sequel in

in all my years of being a jw, one of the more annoying aspects to me was each year sitting through the service meeting review part about what was expected (see: demanded) behavior and policies that the rest of us rank and file were ordered to comply with to attend a district convention.

the minutia in this part and the over-reaching set of rules were enough to drive me into a lather of rage at the audacity of these people thinking they could and should control every single aspect of my attendance to this "free" and voluntary convention.

from what clothing i can wear on my trip to and from the convention city, to what clothing i can wear before and after each day of the convention, to what i should be doing after each day instead of eating dinner and enjoying some good times with good friends, to insisting on wearing a ridiculous name badge, to what i should eat for lunch and where i should eat lunch and what is the appropriate container to keep my lunch in, to .................. the list is endless!!!!!!!!

neverendingjourney

I can verify, though, that the org rents out some of those rooms to convention attendees who need them (didn't make reservations, etc.). I have personally seen the checks. So the org makes money on the hotel deals.

Thanks for sharing your inside perspective.

That was kind of my point. They could choose to use their leverage to negotiate better rates for their members. Instead, they use it as a way to make money and the process is not a transparent one.

26

Convention Hotel "list"- Free rooms for JW/WT "dignitaries"?

by Darth Fader The Sequel in

in all my years of being a jw, one of the more annoying aspects to me was each year sitting through the service meeting review part about what was expected (see: demanded) behavior and policies that the rest of us rank and file were ordered to comply with to attend a district convention.

the minutia in this part and the over-reaching set of rules were enough to drive me into a lather of rage at the audacity of these people thinking they could and should control every single aspect of my attendance to this "free" and voluntary convention.

from what clothing i can wear on my trip to and from the convention city, to what clothing i can wear before and after each day of the convention, to what i should be doing after each day instead of eating dinner and enjoying some good times with good friends, to insisting on wearing a ridiculous name badge, to what i should eat for lunch and where i should eat lunch and what is the appropriate container to keep my lunch in, to .................. the list is endless!!!!!!!!

neverendingjourney

Sir82,

I'm from Texas. There were always hotels that offered better rates just by calling. This was the pre-internet era. All the witnesses knew about it. The more "spiritually-weak" among us would book hotels closer to the convention at a lower rate. It would irk the good-standing folk to no end.

Mind you, I'm not saying the rates were exponentially higher, but they were market at best. A little due diligence could save you 10 to 20 bucks a night at a comparable place. When you make Witness money, that's not an insignificant sum.

As a comparison, I stayed at a hotel in New Mexico not too long ago for a wedding. The wedding rate was about 50 dollars less than the rate you'd get by calling or booking online. It was a small event and the reception was being held in the hotel. Not an apples-to-apples comparison, but my point is that they could likely use their leverage to get better rates generally instead of free rooms.

26

Convention Hotel "list"- Free rooms for JW/WT "dignitaries"?

by Darth Fader The Sequel in

in all my years of being a jw, one of the more annoying aspects to me was each year sitting through the service meeting review part about what was expected (see: demanded) behavior and policies that the rest of us rank and file were ordered to comply with to attend a district convention.

the minutia in this part and the over-reaching set of rules were enough to drive me into a lather of rage at the audacity of these people thinking they could and should control every single aspect of my attendance to this "free" and voluntary convention.

from what clothing i can wear on my trip to and from the convention city, to what clothing i can wear before and after each day of the convention, to what i should be doing after each day instead of eating dinner and enjoying some good times with good friends, to insisting on wearing a ridiculous name badge, to what i should eat for lunch and where i should eat lunch and what is the appropriate container to keep my lunch in, to .................. the list is endless!!!!!!!!

neverendingjourney

They could in theory use their leverage to negotiate better rates. You see people do this in weddings all the time. You tell them you're in town for the so-and-so wedding and you get a discounted rate.

The WT doesn't do this. They use their influence over their members to get them to accept rates that are often above market in exchange for free rooms and possibly other perks for the higher ups.

It's disingenuous since they're not transparent about what they do. I had no idea why the WT forced us to use their hotels the entire time I was "in." I just assumed they were shitty negotiators and couldn't get better rates.

It may be a perfectly legitimate business strategy, but the contempt and condescencion with which they treat their members really irks me. It's as if members are not worthy or sophisticated enough to be able to know what their true goal is. Why the secrecy ? Grown people don't like to be treated like children.