Posts by humbled

86

Words that irritate

by punkofnice in

jw
friends

i have words that irritate me and not always without reason.. my latest hate is the word: 'solutions' as used by so many businesses in their title these days.

y'know, 'something innane business solutions' and such balderdash.. i loathe that word now.

arrrrggghhhhhh!

humbled

From the bad old days at the Hall

"It's being handled"

(meaning "shut yer trap))

95

Girls names

by FeelingFree in

jw
friends

ok so i know its not really anything to do with jwness but we are struggling with baby names and really can't think of one we both like.

its getting a bit desperate as i'm due in about 8 weeks .. i'm getting bored of looking at the same old names on the baby names websites so any suggestions would be much appreciated (girls please).. **cash prize for the one we choose!

** ....... no not really lol.. .

humbled

I love my name Maeve.

See:

www.babynamesofireland.com/maeve

It will pronounce it for you and give the background. Be warned though--it is pagan.

...and all the best with the birth. A truly great event.

Maeve

64

one last step..Is being mentally out the same as being emotionally out?

by MissFit in

jw
friends

we talk here about the importance of being mentally and physically out to be really free.. what about being emotionally free?.

i realized for me, i had to be emotionally awake first.

i had been yo-young back and forth for years.

humbled

I found the OT horrifying but I reasoned that some of the dark parts might be due to human interpretation of events. But the story that damned God, in my mind, was Genesis 22 : All our literature has God demanding Abe asking for the sacrifice of Isaac. I cited the worst offender, MY Book of Bible Stories as particularly offensive.

I spent years slowly piecing together bible research and paleography and how often particular words were used in what context. And more--because it wasn't possible that the pivot point of the bible would be this rotten. My material was corroborated by Bethel. But even though there existed valid reasons to give Jehovah plausible deniability on the charge that he was a lying, sneaking s.o.b., Bethel plastered a lengthy response with such ridiculous verbage that I could only laugh. Because all I had asked for myself was not to have to say "sacrifice your son" since the text didn't use it but used another word.

It is tedious to even bother you with that much. But it was a huge concern to me--I didn't want to serve a monster, won't serve one. The WTBTS did. They could live quite nicely with it--And having been a Catholic earlier on and now dealing with this--my peasant practicality burst out and I just couldn't handle any more bullshit mystery.

I told the brothers that I couldn't believe that the Corp was the FDS. and so I was OUT. I really believed that god should be good.

Then the Epic Thread buried him.

-------------------------------------

Your own journey out from capture was gutsy and amazing , MissFit. I am really awed by your resolute clarity and bravery. Also, I enjoy your clarity and generousity in this and other threads. I find it harder to be open about my thoughts when I am still uncertain and searching for a fair evaluation of the world I live in--and the people and events close in and beyond my own door. I do value a truly hospitable nature. thanks for asking me to say my piece.

64

one last step..Is being mentally out the same as being emotionally out?

by MissFit in

jw
friends

we talk here about the importance of being mentally and physically out to be really free.. what about being emotionally free?.

i realized for me, i had to be emotionally awake first.

i had been yo-young back and forth for years.

humbled

I was an adult who was a serious Christian and accepted a free home bible study.

22 years later I got into trouble when I let the elders know of a recurring problem I had with something that always came up in the literature. I was a good little witness who had weathered other storms (One involved intervention from Bethel with a CO who had bungled a situation so badly i almost left over it). So the elders worked on me over the next several months while I waited for my letter to Bethel to get processsed by Holy Spirit. But it was the way the elders spoke and showed how afraid they were to read and think for themselves--they were even afraid to use their own bibles with me. This showed me how frightened everyone was of being "apostate". Even the brother who was a close family friend and normally brave in standing up for decent and reasonable--even loving behavior--even he was afraid. Fear was every where: my friends couldn't talk, I couldn't talk and the elders wouldn't talk-- just had a script to follow.

I couldn't believe "truth" could be like this.

The thing took about 9 months. I was a basket case. I barely could go to work. I stopped going to meetings while Bethel worked on its long answer to me. I had to wonder all the time if I was an evil trouble maker. But I didn't talk to any one to say what was happening so --I wasn't making trouble that way.

At the end I realized the Corporation was just a Big Business and didn't care about folks like me, or the Truth, or Jehovah--nothing. It was all flim-flam. They only cared about the Corporation. It was the most disgusted I have ever been in my life. I had gone along with it, too --not just religion--but that religion.

So leaving mentally and emotionally was altogether for me. I was glad I found JWN during the last months while I waited for the announcement to be made "Maeve is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses". I posted the news on JWN and went down to a bar and bought myself a beer.

3

Bart Ehrman's Favorite Bible Film--made in Canada

by humbled in

jw
friends

i heard an interview with him once when he was asked did he have a favorite bible-themed film.

he said yes-- jesus of montreal.. "when attendence at a church's annual passion play flags, a troupe of young actors is hired to stage a newer interpretation of the teachings of jesus.

while their newer, more modern version brings the house down, it also brings down the condemnation of church hierarchy, creating a strange parallel between the actors--now persecuted believers--and the authorities.

humbled

BOTR,

From the unwashed,illiterate and unshriven backwaters of the universe I have noticed that a university experience expands the world of knowledge but doesn't teach those who achieve such privilege how NOT to be rude and supercilious when it is least called for. That is learned elsewhere.

When are you going to learn this lesson?

Of the authors whose writings I have read--and they are many---it happens that only Bart Ehrman was asked the question that gave rise to my recommendation of Jesus of Montreal. This innocent bit of trivia was offered as I found it somewhat of a novelty that Bart Ehrman would have selected this particular film.

A fair question from you might have been"Why?" Then I might have answered you thus:

An esteemed (by some)academic who began his career as an evangelical Christian, he is now an agnostic. Now, you do know he didn't write the script--but since his criticisms of biblical texts are well known on the board, it was interesting to view the texture this provided as I watched the film--and maybe will for others. The writer/director, Arcand presented it a thought-provoking and surprising way,possibilities not simply of the historical material of Jesus' existence but of the value of some of the teachings quite apart from the dogma of orthodoxy. It was a drama within a drama within a drama.

Again, I was/am curious about how such a seeker as Ehrman would name this film. I would be likewise curious of other writers' film favorites. But no one has spoken up. For this I get your curled lip and the imputation that I and others on the board read no one but Bart Ehrman? And in case I miss your disdain, you add "I suppose there is no accounting for taste."

I would be pleased to provide you with my reading list if that would exculpate me from your snide suggestion no one on the board reads anything but Ehrman.

Band-o,we each live in the center of our life's drama. But even if we feel that we deserve top billing for our knowledge and erudition and our pain and the breadth of our experience, the fact is we DO share the stage with others more or less who also have something to add to the community. It would be crass for me not to say that the board is enriched by what you provide when you are not speaking in a high-handed way.

-- But this time I am telling you to back off of my small post. This post simply invites others to see a movie. Just- see- a -movie. Because I want you also to imagine that even the bit players here should be treated with more respect from you.

Maeve

7

Did God really test Adam and Eve, and Abraham?

by Kalos in

god does not test anyone.

(james 1:14) hence any account claiming god as testing man (perfect or imperfect) will betray the signs of mans (not gods) thought!.

1) god asking adam not to eat of a particular fruit-bearing tree defies all logic as any fruit-bearing tree is a symbol of goodnessproducing nutritious food (not for themselves) for others; thus doing good for the sake of goodness, which is the very core-attribute of god himself (mathew 5:44-47; mark 10:18) hence eating [the principle] of a fruit-bearing tree would only make man like godsomething jesus himself commanded everyone to do!!!.

humbled

My Book of Bible Stories says God tested Abraham by asking him to kill and burn Isaac. That child's book has God using the evil of human sacrifice to test Abraham. The Greek and the Hebrew all add up to the same meaning for test or tempt.

Flat contradiction here about God and temptation. kalos has it right. Read the opening post.

3

Bart Ehrman's Favorite Bible Film--made in Canada

by humbled in

jw
friends

i heard an interview with him once when he was asked did he have a favorite bible-themed film.

he said yes-- jesus of montreal.. "when attendence at a church's annual passion play flags, a troupe of young actors is hired to stage a newer interpretation of the teachings of jesus.

while their newer, more modern version brings the house down, it also brings down the condemnation of church hierarchy, creating a strange parallel between the actors--now persecuted believers--and the authorities.

humbled

I heard an interview with him once when he was asked did he have a favorite Bible-themed film. He said yes-- Jesus of Montreal.

"When attendence at a church's annual Passion Play flags, a troupe of young actors is hired to stage a newer interpretation of the teachings of Jesus. While their newer, more modern version brings the house down, it also brings down the condemnation of church hierarchy, creating a strange parallel between the actors--now persecuted believers--and the authorities. But the actor. who is beginning to feel at peace with the character he plays (Christ), insists that the show will go on...no matter what happens to him in the process." 1989 written and directed by Denys Arcand

I watched it last month. It was great. that's why I'm recommending it to anybody regardless of your creeds. It's a good film.

When I get back from my hiatus, maybe some will have looked it up--I might get to know how you liked it.

Maeve

7

Did God really test Adam and Eve, and Abraham?

by Kalos in

god does not test anyone.

(james 1:14) hence any account claiming god as testing man (perfect or imperfect) will betray the signs of mans (not gods) thought!.

1) god asking adam not to eat of a particular fruit-bearing tree defies all logic as any fruit-bearing tree is a symbol of goodnessproducing nutritious food (not for themselves) for others; thus doing good for the sake of goodness, which is the very core-attribute of god himself (mathew 5:44-47; mark 10:18) hence eating [the principle] of a fruit-bearing tree would only make man like godsomething jesus himself commanded everyone to do!!!.

humbled

Aye, prologos, well said of trees.

11

You know what I hate?

by sparrowdown in

jw
friends

how jws bend over backwards pretending to be super nice,.

super caring, super open minded and reasonable to strangers.

at the door, strangers at the supermarket, or on tv drumming up publicity for.

humbled

I hear you.

No one is supposed to talk to me but the chance to lob a zinger at an apostate was just too much for an old friend/sister. When he saw me at the Farmers Market she came up and said

" What is WRONG with you? What is WRONG with you?"

I barely had time to say the word "Nothing." Because she was gone. Just like that.

I do hate it.

6

Was Jesus fully Human? How babies were made in those days.

by fulltimestudent in

i feel confident that most visitors to this site, understand the essential conflict at the heart of christianity.

how could jesus be fully human and simultaneously be a divine being who descended (supposedly, some thing jesus specifically claimed to be) from heaven.. as jws we may have solved this tricky point by saying that yahweh transferred the life of jesus into mary's womb, and so jesus was born fully human.. but if we remove the blindfold of faith, we immediately 'see' the problem.

in our contemporary view of the reproductive process, we can be certain that there is a female 'egg,' that is fertilised by male sperm.

humbled

Thanks for the background on this--I never thought about this bit.

It does remind me of the other equation they could not make add up properly--the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Mary.

You know, that doesn't refer to her being made pregnant by the Holy Spirit--It is derived from the ancient and popular idea that Mary was conceived without sin thus making her a fitting receptacle for Jesus. "Holy Mary, Mother of God" as the catholics say.

It gave St Thomas Aquinas fits though--because if God could "cure" original sin so easily--which nullified the need for a blood ransom--then Mary had no need of Savior (and no one else would need saving if God could do this little parlor trick)

Quite the theological mess, and Thom had to solve it since the Pope declared it true. The only remedy he could come up with was that however her mum n dad did "it", she just for one unholy second was she a sinner--then BLAM!--cured! Immaculate conception.

Stupid.