Posts by humbled

300

ALERT: NEW LAWSUIT settlement - $13 MILLION

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/135m-awarded-to-bible-teacher-gonzalo-campos-alleged-abuse-victim-jose-lopez-281031832.html.

(published thursday, oct 30, 2014).

thursday, oct 30, 2014 updated at 11:58 pm pdt.

humbled

Barbara, thanks for staying on the trail. It is hard to think of the children that had their abuse covered over.

I hope the stink of this rises so high that they can smell it in the sealed kingdom Halls everywhere.

142

Governing Body Member Gerrit Loesch Must Eventually Take The Witness Stand In Child Molestation Lawsuits

by frankiespeakin in

with many more cases in the offing the zalkin lawfirm will press the issue again and again and force gerrit loesch to testify.

what say you?.

.

humbled

..and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. John 8:44

33

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

by Gnostic Bishop in

have you investigated gnostic christianity?.

the gnostic wing of christianity, if it can even be called that today, has quite a few differences to christianity and catholicism.

if the old gnostic christians were here, they would hardly recognize what has happened to the original orthodox catholic church or its various offshoots in protestantism and islam.

humbled

Laika--

Yep-that patriarchy thing--it's tied up with hierarchy--which Gnostic Bishop says they do have presently. And it's an evolving religion.

So who proposes the
"New Light" when there is an evolutionary change? The rank &file? Or like most religions they are not supposed to be anything but silent empty-minded vessels for the real spiritual guides?

Nothing really new then--even if they start out different they all end up the same.

38

Jeptha's Daughter- what actuallyt happened??

by Kudra in

hi all, especially the scholars amongst you ;)a .

i was listening to richard dawkin's talk at lynchburg va and he was tlaking about how horrible the god of the old testament was- and he mentioned this: .

that when jeptha's daughter came out (and jeptha had promised god he'd sacrifice the first thing out of his house) that he had to sacrifice her as a burnt offering.

humbled

Hey, nancy,

We know what Abe thought he knew what God meant----because of what he tried to do. But I am not convinced that he knew what the hell was going on with that test...

Because "burnt offering" is olah . and Olah is the word that was used in the Genesis22 story. not zebach. Zebach is the word for slaughter. It is unequivocal for the slashing cut of the victims throat. It would have been a wrap if that word were used.

Though it is reasonably assumed that a burnt offering is a whole animal killed and burnt (without the offerer retaining so much as a tail tassle)It is a mistake to think that olah and zebach were always understood to be interchangable. Abraham certainly assumed they were the same. And yet he was wrong. The word olah in its root meaning is completely different from the explicit word that graphically descibes slaughter (zebach).

How do we know that the Hebrews eventually made this distinction? When the Mosaic law set up all the involved practice for sacrifice ( and there were slews of new words and types of sacrifices) over and over you will see the two words are used in the same sentence--"sacrifice and burnt offering"--an occurance not necessary if they meant the same thing, But they didn't

It is said so often that Hebrew language is derived from concrete ideas--Written, the Hebrew alphabet pictures material objects--aleph=ox or bull, bet=house, gimel=throwing stick, dalet=door---stuff like that.

Olah means "ascent, as smoke rises up to heaven".

Eventually, there were no mistakes of understanding--and no one tried to kill their child for a burnt offering.

And I am not going to say one way or another what I think Abraham heard--I don't know if he got a letter, heard voices or ate the wrong kind of mushrooms. Just saying that this idea that Abraham hadn't a clue what was really going down as he walked toward Mt. Moriah--- But the Genesis22 word that was always used in every copy of scripture has been olah-- so maybe Abe figured it out afterward.

Old, old story.

33

Have you investigated Gnostic Christianity?

by Gnostic Bishop in

have you investigated gnostic christianity?.

the gnostic wing of christianity, if it can even be called that today, has quite a few differences to christianity and catholicism.

if the old gnostic christians were here, they would hardly recognize what has happened to the original orthodox catholic church or its various offshoots in protestantism and islam.

humbled

No answer for me?

20

Islam's Psychotic Obsession With Hell

by cofty in

every word this man preaches is official muslim doctrine.. fear of hellfire is central to the life of every muslim.

it is axiomatic that every non-muslim, all kaffir like you and i will spend eternity in hell.. just like roman catholicism and evangelical christianity it is a cult of fear and of death.

unlike christian writers mo was not coy about describing the details of hellfire.. i have just finished reading two autobiographies by ayaan hirsi ali who is a muslim "apostate" and lives under a death threat.

humbled

Great line, NewHope: I think we have many moderate Muslims, but we do not have a moderate Islam.

It may be good to heighten the conflict between the good verses and the bad when we are able to converse with our Muslim friends (they like JWs are discouraged from friendships outside of their faith)--The conflict between the benevolent words of God and the condemning words-- these things helped pressure me out of the exclusive (negative)religious control of the JWs --and more.

20

Islam's Psychotic Obsession With Hell

by cofty in

every word this man preaches is official muslim doctrine.. fear of hellfire is central to the life of every muslim.

it is axiomatic that every non-muslim, all kaffir like you and i will spend eternity in hell.. just like roman catholicism and evangelical christianity it is a cult of fear and of death.

unlike christian writers mo was not coy about describing the details of hellfire.. i have just finished reading two autobiographies by ayaan hirsi ali who is a muslim "apostate" and lives under a death threat.

humbled

cofty,

It is this not being allowed to contemplate the "nice parts" as being at cross purposes that is an avenue of conversation. That is why I want to see the contents of the Quran for myself.

In another thread that is concerned with the Bible, the title is concerned with the idea of a perfect canon (!), and presumably a perfect translation, that would lead to a perfect practice of a religion--the OP's concern not to follow the "opinions of men". But isn't there always the prism of the mind that renders everything--including a religious text-- as one person's own opinion? If that person is ever is brave enough, deperate enough or feels obligated enough by faith can't they and haven't some broken away from the mind control of religious tyrants.

This forum is full of such ones, isn't it? Informed discussion and the highlighting of the niceparts vs. the monstrous ones is our job. Tedious, slow and necessary.

20

Islam's Psychotic Obsession With Hell

by cofty in

every word this man preaches is official muslim doctrine.. fear of hellfire is central to the life of every muslim.

it is axiomatic that every non-muslim, all kaffir like you and i will spend eternity in hell.. just like roman catholicism and evangelical christianity it is a cult of fear and of death.

unlike christian writers mo was not coy about describing the details of hellfire.. i have just finished reading two autobiographies by ayaan hirsi ali who is a muslim "apostate" and lives under a death threat.

humbled

NewHope,

I am not sure I catch your meaning--maybe I wasn't clear in my post either.

I have no obligations to the backward, demeaning abuses of any "holy" writings--but I have only read bits and pieces of the Quran. And, though I have listened to or read the understanding of others who are Muslim, I cannot be satisfied by that alone. To engage in meaningful conversation on Islam and the actons of Muslims I want to know the contents of the Quran myself.

The bible was absolutely as demeaning to women(especially the OT) as in the parts of the Quran that I have read. Since I take seriously the threat of the violence and abuses from Islamist, I will do my part in fighting that violence by arming myself with knowledge from many sources--including the reading the Quran for myself.

20

Islam's Psychotic Obsession With Hell

by cofty in

every word this man preaches is official muslim doctrine.. fear of hellfire is central to the life of every muslim.

it is axiomatic that every non-muslim, all kaffir like you and i will spend eternity in hell.. just like roman catholicism and evangelical christianity it is a cult of fear and of death.

unlike christian writers mo was not coy about describing the details of hellfire.. i have just finished reading two autobiographies by ayaan hirsi ali who is a muslim "apostate" and lives under a death threat.

humbled

Fascinating that he knows so much about every aspect of hell. Creepy.

More on his background is discouraging. a Brit and a convert to Islam-- an ex-Catholic to boot--he is wretchedly backward yet so certain he is doing God's will--two wives, believes in all the worst things that have been said of Islamists.

More on Ayaan Hirsi Ali's life, on the other hand, makes the role of education and opportunity clear for Muslims to move away from the dark verses of the Quran.

And Ayaan is an atheist now.

This is a educational post. Non-polarizing even though using the word "psychotic" in the title. The fellow IS psychotically obsessed with the topic.

My copy of the Quran has arrived in the mail. I am not looking forward to reading it as glancing through it I see that Mohammed is viewed with too much reverence for anyone's good.

57

Was the Biblical Canon Directed by God?

by Chris Tann in

this is a question a sincere christian may agonize over after learning that some books of the bible were rejected by certain early christian groups,while other books that did not make the canon were accepted.

also,when one realizes that so called inspired writers of the greek scriptures quote from apocrypha,that most christians reject today,one wonders if these writings that include these quotes should even be in the bible.. it is true that when it comes to the christian greek scriptures the canon has been closed for many centuries.

also, these books have been accepted by christians ever since the second,perhaps first,century.

humbled

Chris Tann,

It will always be a man's (or a woman's) opinion about God.

So what if you have a "true" canon, and a "true" translation--Who is there to tell you what it means?

A "true" interpretation is the next hurdle.

Tell me--How do you deal with the most stable of all the books of the bible--Genesis. And within that book the signature moment of Judaism, Christianity--even Islam: Genesis 22 the bloody scene where Abraham interprets God's desire for him to kill his son Isaac.

Can you believe this prevailing interpretation, namely this-- God shredded key teachings of His in order to test His friend's faith?

God doesn't lie

God doesn't test with evil

God calls human sacrifice evil

I call pull out the book, chapter and verse on these points but surely you know where to find them.

My point is this: we have to rely on the honesty and scholarship of others with the limitations of education and circumstance. We are only second hand believers. Others interpreted these stories for us--opinions all.

I interpreted the Genesis story differently and was kicked out of JW land. My view was that it is hard to understand God even if you are a friend of his.

Who are you going to believe, Chris Tann? In the end, if you decide you have the canon God wants you to have, you willstill only have the opinion of a man--yourself.