Posts by OnTheWayOut

38

Would You Stop Buying A Product Because of Political Differences?

by minimus in

jw
friends

would you stop buying nike products because you didn’t like their politics?

conversely, would you give business to a company because you liked their political stand on a matter?

would you stop watching an entertainer because you disagree with their political perspectives?

OnTheWayOut

I probably should, but I don't really participate in boycotts because of politics.

I was a member of a group that went door-to-door and other places, pressuring people to see that they should serve a printing corporation because God wanted them to do that.

My point is that I was so wrong. I am so sorry I did that to people. So despite my knowing that contributing to anti-gay organizations or hate groups of other kinds is wrong, despite my knowing that hunting endangered animals (or really any animals) for sport is wrong, despite my knowing that religion is almost always wrong- I no longer attempt to coerce people to do a certain thing like boycotting Chick-Fil-A or Jimmy Johns or Walmart or grapes or the Republican party or whatever.

I have no problem with others boycotting such things.

150

Cause of Mass Shootings Mental Health?

by blondie in

jw
friends

i have been sad to see so many groups and individuals say that the cause of these events are the mental status of the shooters.

i have looked over the backgrounds of these shooters, and few had medically identified mental health issues.

it is too easy to think that people shoot or kill other people because they are mentally ill.. actually, many or most people with real mental illnesses are most likely to be the victims of others.. i have been a volunteer with the organization called nami (national alliance of mental lillness) for 25 years now.

OnTheWayOut

It is hard for many to think that anyone who would do such terrible things is not mentally disturbed in some way.
So it's a short jump to go from "disturbed" to "ill."

Most gang members and criminals would not be diagnosed as mentally ill. Well today, most gang members and criminals (and really just about anyone) have greater access to weapons that aid in mass killings. People in my own circle of family and friends have handguns for protection (which I am not against if they are willing to register, go through training and background checks, and fully recognize that beyond clear personal protection they will have to answer to potential stiff penalties for using that weapon). They start talking about getting bigger magazines (ammunition clips). So even those who have no intention of killing people get armed and ready to do just that. And often, while they stated they wanted a gun for protection, they whip it out and shoot when arguing over a parking space or yelling at their (well-known-to-them) neighbor over using their trash cans. So imagine someone just like that who snaps one day and it doesn't get resolved in one small incident, but festers for a few days. There's a mass shooter. Without easy access to guns, neighbors or strangers used to resort to fists or yelling and the guy who snaps used to write the newspaper.

There is virtually no correlation between mental illness and mass killings. But there is a huge correlation between those killings and hatred itself. The United States not only has a huge gun mentality, it also has such a huge history of hatred. This ain't no melting pot. The separate groups don't blend very much. And even if they had a legal handgun, most haters in a different country would not have access to assault-style weapons with massive amounts of ammunition firing ability.

Everyone snaps about something. EVERYONE!!!!! It's a mental thing-sure. But it's not an illness. It's life. Life is just loaded with stress over paying the bills and working and caring for the kids and managing intimate relationships or dealing with family and coworkers. And it should not lead to killing even one person. We should work on the hatred- for sure. But until then, we might consider working on the gun mentality. And we can certainly remove mass killing weapons. If the only thing that worked, yet still allowed people to have their guns, was to allow registered rifles with a long barrel and a single shot, I would be okay with that.

16

Two Bible Beliefs of Jehovah`s Witnesses ,Do They Align with each other ?

by smiddy3 in

1.the first is 2 cor.4:4 that satan is "the god of this system of things" to blind the minds of the unbelievers etc.. so logically this "system of things" would mean the governments ,politicians, armed forces and law enforcement agency`s such as the police would it not?

so satan is in control of all of these under the banner of being the god of this system of things.?.

2. rom.13: 1-7 " let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities for their is no authority except by god".

OnTheWayOut

Pretty fancy tap dancing, sure. But a JW worth his weight in not-at-home-slips could do it.

The people of the world are worshiping their god, Satan. He is the ruler of the world. And certainly, just as he rules the churches, he rules the governments. But Jehovah allows the rulerships to exist to avoid total chaos.

Then the JW will change the topic slightly and say that a Christian must obey God before the authorities. He will pile on to that. They will point to Jesus paying the tax and saying to give Caesar's things to Caesar, so that there is no reason to give a bad witness. Basically, they will put in the same conflict your post asks about but they will feel they fully explained it.

69

Don't count on witnessing Watchtower's demise anytime soon.

by Roger Kirkpatrick in

jw
friends

the fact that there are pomi ex-jws who have been disfellowshiped or inactive for years who still live in constant fear of armageddon indicates that watchtower will manage to exist in one way or another for years, if not decades, to come.

watchtower, like all other religious cults, operate on the premise that "you can fool some of the people all of the time...and that's enough!

".

OnTheWayOut

Opening post: "...Watchtower will manage to exist in one way or another for years, if not decades, to come. "

I was sure of that when I faded out in 2007. I still don't get at all hopeful that Watchtower will end in my lifetime.

But it is great to see that they went to more of a serious decline from their slight growth since I left. They sold off Brooklyn and many Halls since I left. They have been found guilty in child abuse cases since I left and it cost them millions.

So who really knows? There is a tipping point where such a monstrously large thing like Sears Roebuck or Watchtower cannot sustain itself. What is often left at the end is a token- like The International Bible Students are. Who really knows what it will take?

There are scandals awaiting. Who knows?

62

Evolution - A Conversation with Alex Williams

by cofty in

alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.

this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.

it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.

OnTheWayOut

I typed a response to my quote from Doug. It was dropped for some reason. I edited to add it a second time. It was dropped for some reason.

Anyway- DOUG, I was not referring to your post at all. I was referencing the initial opening post. But thanks for that additional information.

25

What to do when you're PIMO and dont want to date a jw?

by nowawake14 in

jw
friends

what are your thoughts on that?.

OnTheWayOut

Just don't date a JW.

Since you are living in the lie for now, don't date anyone. It isn't really fair to someone that you have to keep them secret from your other life.

62

Evolution - A Conversation with Alex Williams

by cofty in

alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.

this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.

it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.

OnTheWayOut

Doug Mason:
OTWO,
Yes, Shapiro is one man with one point of view, but that was not the issue I was endeavouring to point out

33

WT Teaching That You Can't Leave Behind

by jhine in

after posting on another thread it became apparent to me that it can be difficult for some ex jws to totally shake off all wt teaching , even after leaving the org.

do you still feel guilty going into a church for a wedding or a funeral .

can you bring yourself to celebrate birthdays or christmas .

OnTheWayOut

Every birthday, I am reminded how I joined a cult that took my birthday away.
Despite my atheism, I have no problem sharing gifts on or near December 25th with people who choose that time.

No hesitation to accept a blood transfusion. I just want to be informed about any medical procedures.

I have no hesitation going into any facility for a wedding or funeral. I do kinda laugh at the priestly outfits, though.

The indoctrination does do something to me- as mentioned above with my birthday, I think about how silly it was to be afraid of birthday wishes or holidays or churches or anything "worldly."

18

1914 Was Originally Just 40 Years Past the End Date of 1874, That's All it Was!

by OnTheWayOut in

you don't need to understand complicated ways to go from 607bce to 1914ce.

you don't have to go back to the late 1700's to understand the founding of jehovah's witnesses on the back of william miller's teachings.

you just need to know that watchtower math and past doctrines along with changes in teachings are all based on lies.

OnTheWayOut

TD, okay on when Russell started his own pamphlets. I meant that he wanted to distribute his own, but I did kind of lead it to say he was already distributing. Otherwise, you are splitting hairs on a very simplified explanation. You are adding accurate layers but the whole point was that we don't really need to bother with all the details. Thanks for correcting me, though.

Blondie, that 6000-years thing sounds like the predecessor to the 1975 thing, stealing from other doctrines. It further tells me that some of them knew the whole thing is bullshit.

18

1914 Was Originally Just 40 Years Past the End Date of 1874, That's All it Was!

by OnTheWayOut in

you don't need to understand complicated ways to go from 607bce to 1914ce.

you don't have to go back to the late 1700's to understand the founding of jehovah's witnesses on the back of william miller's teachings.

you just need to know that watchtower math and past doctrines along with changes in teachings are all based on lies.

OnTheWayOut

Page 2 replies.

Blondie, thanks for the "Harvest" information.

TD, I simplified to make a point but I am pretty sure it isn't wrong. Go ahead. Tell us what is wrong about what I said. But be sure it is wrong, not just over simplification.

BluesBrother, yes- I needed it to be true. Many were brought up with no other options.