Posts by OnTheWayOut

69

Don't count on witnessing Watchtower's demise anytime soon.

by Roger Kirkpatrick in

jw
friends

the fact that there are pomi ex-jws who have been disfellowshiped or inactive for years who still live in constant fear of armageddon indicates that watchtower will manage to exist in one way or another for years, if not decades, to come.

watchtower, like all other religious cults, operate on the premise that "you can fool some of the people all of the time...and that's enough!

".

OnTheWayOut

Opening post: "...Watchtower will manage to exist in one way or another for years, if not decades, to come. "

I was sure of that when I faded out in 2007. I still don't get at all hopeful that Watchtower will end in my lifetime.

But it is great to see that they went to more of a serious decline from their slight growth since I left. They sold off Brooklyn and many Halls since I left. They have been found guilty in child abuse cases since I left and it cost them millions.

So who really knows? There is a tipping point where such a monstrously large thing like Sears Roebuck or Watchtower cannot sustain itself. What is often left at the end is a token- like The International Bible Students are. Who really knows what it will take?

There are scandals awaiting. Who knows?

62

Evolution - A Conversation with Alex Williams

by cofty in

alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.

this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.

it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.

OnTheWayOut

I typed a response to my quote from Doug. It was dropped for some reason. I edited to add it a second time. It was dropped for some reason.

Anyway- DOUG, I was not referring to your post at all. I was referencing the initial opening post. But thanks for that additional information.

25

What to do when you're PIMO and dont want to date a jw?

by nowawake14 in

jw
friends

what are your thoughts on that?.

OnTheWayOut

Just don't date a JW.

Since you are living in the lie for now, don't date anyone. It isn't really fair to someone that you have to keep them secret from your other life.

62

Evolution - A Conversation with Alex Williams

by cofty in

alex - thank you for your offer to have a conversation about evolution.. i accept the scientific evidence that all life - including humans - evolved from a common ancestor through unguided evolution over millions of years.

this isn't even a controversial position in the scientific community.. the evidence rests on the data from many interconnected fields including paleontology, comparative anatomy, geology and especially genetics.

it is no exaggeration to say that the evidence for your own non-human ancestry is contained in every cell in your body.. it is my experience that jws are generally quite ignorant (not in a pejorative sense) of the scientific case.

OnTheWayOut

Doug Mason:
OTWO,
Yes, Shapiro is one man with one point of view, but that was not the issue I was endeavouring to point out

33

WT Teaching That You Can't Leave Behind

by jhine in

after posting on another thread it became apparent to me that it can be difficult for some ex jws to totally shake off all wt teaching , even after leaving the org.

do you still feel guilty going into a church for a wedding or a funeral .

can you bring yourself to celebrate birthdays or christmas .

OnTheWayOut

Every birthday, I am reminded how I joined a cult that took my birthday away.
Despite my atheism, I have no problem sharing gifts on or near December 25th with people who choose that time.

No hesitation to accept a blood transfusion. I just want to be informed about any medical procedures.

I have no hesitation going into any facility for a wedding or funeral. I do kinda laugh at the priestly outfits, though.

The indoctrination does do something to me- as mentioned above with my birthday, I think about how silly it was to be afraid of birthday wishes or holidays or churches or anything "worldly."

18

1914 Was Originally Just 40 Years Past the End Date of 1874, That's All it Was!

by OnTheWayOut in

you don't need to understand complicated ways to go from 607bce to 1914ce.

you don't have to go back to the late 1700's to understand the founding of jehovah's witnesses on the back of william miller's teachings.

you just need to know that watchtower math and past doctrines along with changes in teachings are all based on lies.

OnTheWayOut

TD, okay on when Russell started his own pamphlets. I meant that he wanted to distribute his own, but I did kind of lead it to say he was already distributing. Otherwise, you are splitting hairs on a very simplified explanation. You are adding accurate layers but the whole point was that we don't really need to bother with all the details. Thanks for correcting me, though.

Blondie, that 6000-years thing sounds like the predecessor to the 1975 thing, stealing from other doctrines. It further tells me that some of them knew the whole thing is bullshit.

18

1914 Was Originally Just 40 Years Past the End Date of 1874, That's All it Was!

by OnTheWayOut in

you don't need to understand complicated ways to go from 607bce to 1914ce.

you don't have to go back to the late 1700's to understand the founding of jehovah's witnesses on the back of william miller's teachings.

you just need to know that watchtower math and past doctrines along with changes in teachings are all based on lies.

OnTheWayOut

Page 2 replies.

Blondie, thanks for the "Harvest" information.

TD, I simplified to make a point but I am pretty sure it isn't wrong. Go ahead. Tell us what is wrong about what I said. But be sure it is wrong, not just over simplification.

BluesBrother, yes- I needed it to be true. Many were brought up with no other options.

18

1914 Was Originally Just 40 Years Past the End Date of 1874, That's All it Was!

by OnTheWayOut in

you don't need to understand complicated ways to go from 607bce to 1914ce.

you don't have to go back to the late 1700's to understand the founding of jehovah's witnesses on the back of william miller's teachings.

you just need to know that watchtower math and past doctrines along with changes in teachings are all based on lies.

OnTheWayOut

Page 1 replies-

Sigfrid Mallozzi- yes, that is exactly the point. They used to teach that a generation was 40 years, they used to teach different stuff. Thanks for that thought.

Anders Andersen, BTLC
Good question, good answer. Thanks.

Stan, most of us REALLY DID believe all this crap.

Finkelstein, somehow we were mostly indoctrinated enough to ignore Watchtower violating Jesus' command.
1975 was indeed used to sell literature. 1975 paid for modern presses for the giant printing company. It also attracted more recruits than they lost in the aftermath.

BTLC, on Russel's shift attempt on 1914 to 1915, old information like this is enough for me to be sure that many (if not all) of the people in the "ivory tower" know that the doctrine is bullshit to manipulate people.

peacefulpete, very excellent point on 40 years already foreshadowed. Watchtower teaches that stuff with virtually everything, so that fit right in. And back in the days, doctrine was very much a juggling act of adding this factor and that factor, making something literal and another thing symbolic. It's much stupider now with the "overlapping generation" stuff they come up with.

11

The dangerous species: The True Believer

by Terry in

the age of enlightenment is worth a good look.

(the rise of reason, science, art, philosophy replacing superstition and 'belief.

")for millennia emperors and popes enforced compliance in our world.

OnTheWayOut

My JW mother likes to say
"The most dangerous people are those with good intentions but they are just wrong."

She doesn't see the irony in her saying that.

16

Will directing people to jw.org actually prove counter productive?

by eyeslice2 in

jw
friends

there was a time when the society was very skeptical about the internet and the so-called lies and apostate information that was out there.

it sort of was something to be avoided.

over the past ten years, however, it seems they have taken to it with a passion.

OnTheWayOut

Hey, in 12 years or so since I left, I have seen Jehovah's Witnesses go from growth through recruitment to basically abandoning any hope of growth at all. The carts that they put to the side of walkways and have JW's silently stand near are just for die-hard JW's to think they are still recruiting. Telling people to go to the internet is the same. People will virtually never even go to check out jwdotorg.

Watchtower is willing to ride on it's current millions of members and hope for some retention through children. They have sold off millions upon millions of dollars worth of Brooklyn property at numbers way lower than they would have gotten 12 years ago at the height of real estate values.

So the good news for me- I fully underestimated how fast such changes would occur. I guessed that Watchtower would eventually go away, but the reduction and the sale of Kingdom Halls is going way faster than I would ever have guessed. The lawsuits are incredible and making more headway in the United States than I could imagine.

I still make the offer- I will help them pack their bags if the Governing Body are ready to make a run to some country in the tropics with no extradition.