Posts by OnTheWayOut

Hey, I know JW1 was an elder, JW2 may have been an MS. I was there. I felt strong enough in my own JW spirituality to freely research. And many mainstream references can be found. One never knows.

28

JW's on my front sidewalk

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

so last weekend, the jw's ring the bell and my wife answers.

we live in a heavily spanish neighborhood but don't really speak spanish.

i thought my wife was quite clear that she is a "sister" to them, but maybe the one in charge of the group didn't get the message.

OnTheWayOut

Page 2 answers

Lastmanstanding, if there's no help, fine. But many are looking at stuff and coming out all the time. Good wishes for your plan.

JRK, I could say I don't care if they look into matters or not. But that is not entirely true. Even stranger elder JW's are captives of the cult same as I was, and while I usually don't engage them in discussions, I always hope they look into information. I typically let it go for my own peace and sanity, but I hope every captive the best.

Scratchme1010, thanks.

ShirleyW, LOL. I didn't even recruit on Christmas as JW. I gave people their space to be with family.

Smiddy3, yes they asked for it. Only reason I gave it.

Junk Yard Dog, It will have to be a coffee, thanks.

Redpilltwice, that is brilliant- "We all need to keep telling them (gently) NOT to go from door-to-door if they don't know the facts and refuse to do research." I would have added that- "If you aren't aware of your own organization's activities and events that affect that organization, you shouldn't be out here."

Wing Commander said "...they are easily fooled into believing Satan and the Apostates are out to get them. The Spanish JW's are some of the most brainwashed believers out there."

I get your thoughts on how they are "all in" but many American JW's are (and others), regardless of their language, color, ethnicity. I also tended to be "all in." I consider it possibly easier to wake up from the religion from a jolt if one is "all in."

I wasn't prepared to speak, as I usually do not. I wish I had thought to mention G. Jackson on youtube.

My Name, true. Maybe they will find some water for that seed.

52

What Made You Decide To Finally Leave The Organization?

by minimus in

jw
friends

was there one certain event or was it more a cumulative thing?.

OnTheWayOut

The "CliffsNotes" version: I went to college and I Googled.

They warned about that evil college and that evil internet. I guess they were right about that. LOL, NO.
Good job.

16

Intro

by jc1985 in

jw
friends

hello all, many years i have been lurking on this site.

gradually i’ve learned the real truth, gone from serving as a servant and at bethel to inactive for almost a year, barely ever wasting time going to meetings.

my family is large and very active and so is my wife’s so leaving altogether is difficult.. though it seems now that everything is about to change.

OnTheWayOut

Welcome to the posting side of the forum, welcome to your freedom. It will probably be hard and sad at times, but I like your attitude about it. And maybe you won't be shunned by everyone. Sometimes, we are surprised.

28

JW's on my front sidewalk

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

so last weekend, the jw's ring the bell and my wife answers.

we live in a heavily spanish neighborhood but don't really speak spanish.

i thought my wife was quite clear that she is a "sister" to them, but maybe the one in charge of the group didn't get the message.

OnTheWayOut

Page 1 answers.

Finkelstein, yeah- I was still being the tiniest bit guarded so I could say I didn't say anything to be DF'ed. It was thin, they probably would exaggerate what I said, but it still left me wiggle room.

Fatfreek, Jookbeard, thanks for chiming in.

steve2, Are you serious, I hope they are able to realize I gave them a couple of outs to just take their leave.

sparrowdown, I virtually never get into it. It seems pointless. I strived hard to make a point that they could look up easily.

Zoos, yes. They can continue to deny. I hope they at least look up something because it's harder to deny to ones-self if they read it for themselves.

D.O.C., I wondered that myself. JW1 may bounce back to JW mode, but JW2 might just do as you say. Here's to hope.

LV101, I agree. Once I learned some things, it wouldn't go away.

28

JW's on my front sidewalk

by OnTheWayOut in

jw
friends

so last weekend, the jw's ring the bell and my wife answers.

we live in a heavily spanish neighborhood but don't really speak spanish.

i thought my wife was quite clear that she is a "sister" to them, but maybe the one in charge of the group didn't get the message.

OnTheWayOut

So last weekend, the JW's ring the bell and my wife answers. We live in a heavily Spanish neighborhood but don't really speak Spanish. I thought my wife was quite clear that she is a "sister" to them, but maybe the one in charge of the group didn't get the message. So they apparently do the same thing the English speakers do in our city when they encounter someone of a different language- they write it down for someone of that language to come back.

So Sunday, I am shoveling the light snow in front. I am doing my sidewalk and both my neighbors. Whoever gets out there tends to do everybody's walk, so that is a normal thing. I am wearing a hat and even from my avatar, you might think I am Mexican, but really- I speak English and no Spanish. So I am in front of my neighbor's house when two older men, clearly JW's to me, stand there and check their little address book or whatever and look at the housese. They are about 4 or 5 feet from me doing that. Finally, they walk by and say "Hola" and go straight to my front door.

I was debating whether to ignore them or say something. I decided to say something. Here's the general conversation-
(and JW1 did all the talking, JW2 kept a straight face and barely said a word.)

OTWO: I am the only one home there, can I help you?

JW1: We were looking for the English speaking householder here.

OTWO: That's me.

JW1: We are Jehovah's Witnesses and were out today encouraging people with a positive message. Many people think about Jesus during this holiday season, but they don't often think about what he accomplished for mankind. YADDA YADDA YADDA!!!! (I let him finish)

OTWO: Thanks, but I am not interested in your message. Have a nice day.
(That could be the end of it, but no.)

JW1: Many people say that about Jehovah's Witnesses. Perhaps they don't know much about us. I assure you that we are really just trying to share the good news from the Bible as Christians.

(Okay, So I gave him a way to just leave. he didn't take it. Now, I can go in many different directions. I choose to go down a path that might just cause him to leave still.)
OTWO: Your people are fine. Many good people like any other group. I have nothing against your people and I have relatives who are Jehovah's Witnesses. But I am not interested because I have problems with your organization.

JW1: I have never heard that before. What about our organization bothers you? Perhaps I can answer your questions.

(So he wants to talk and not leave. I will hit him hard.)
OTWO: Your organization has called the United Nations the wild beast of Revelation. Yet they joined the U.N. after doing that and were a non-governmental member for a decade or so in the 1990's. When it was discovered, they said it was to have access to the United Nations Library. Yet they had blasted the organization so hard prior to that, and when it was discovered and revealed through the press, they removed themselves as a member. Look back at many 1990's AWAKE articles that highlighted efforts of the World Health Organization and other U.N. efforts and were not condemning that organization anymore.

JW1: That's something I never heard. What is your source of information?

OTWO: I don't carry around papers that state my source. Look it up, it will be easy to find.

JW1: Well, there are government and private sources that are against us and don't tell the truth.

OTWO: It will be easy enough for you to examine a preponderance of evidence that this is the truth. It was some British newspaper that broke the story.

JW1: There are people who will go so far as to produce lies about Jehovah's Witnesses. They are called apostates. They want people to follow them and stop following Jehovah God.

OTWO: Yeah, I have heard of that term before. All that means is that you will stop reading or listening to anything about your religion no matter who is saying it if it is not WATCHTOWER. That just causes you to stop learning any truths about your religion. Don't you suppose the Mormons or the Jim Jones people also used terms like "apostate" to cause their members to not listen to any outsider information? That's another problem. As a matter of fact, Jehovah's Witnesses changed the rules about disfellowshipped people around 1980 when a Governing Body member was kicked out. They started totally shunning former members so that current members could not hear what they had to say.

JW1: That was a protection.

OTWO: I am sure you think so. So there really isn't anything I could say to you, because you will automatically dismiss it unless it comes from WATCHTOWER directly.

JW1: No, I really am interested in answering your questions.

OTWO: Alright. You were a member in the 1990's, weren't you? (He nods) But you never knew about the United Nations membership. You would think your own organization would say something. More recently, have they said anything about the Australian Royal Commission's investigation of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

JW1: What's that?

OTWO: Yeah, neither of you knows anything about that. But your own WATCHTOWER should tell you these things. It's what is happening in the world that effects you. (They don't know what I am talking about.)

OTWO: About 2 years ago, Australia appointed a committee to look into allegations that Watchtower did not report a thousand cases of possible child sexual abuse to authorities and kept the matters quiet to avoid making the organization look bad.

JW1 went on about how he personally has had to deal with some cases alledging sexual abuse and how "they" do not let known offenders go out in the ministry. I tried to say how they still don't tell the congregation about the person in their midst. Of course he was sure I was wrong and that they are wonderful and these things in Australia were about greedy individuals and apostates. It was just a stupid bunch of YADDA YADDA.

OTWO: I knew that no matter what I said, you would deny that such problems exist or that there are bad people in a good organization. But I tell you these things because they are easy to look into. Get over your paranoia and look for the facts and you will see. I imagine that both you and JW2 here may one day be brave enough to overcome your fear of looking into reputable sources for yourselves and you will probably say that crazy guy on "Main" Street was right.

They were looking for an out now. My cell phone rang and they took that as time to leave.

52

What Made You Decide To Finally Leave The Organization?

by minimus in

jw
friends

was there one certain event or was it more a cumulative thing?.

OnTheWayOut

Definitely a cumulative thing. I lingered on for a decade past my first huge doubts about the truth.
In 1995, they changed their doctrine about "generation." For my short time in the religion, coming in at 1988, they had changed very little up until then. I was past the crazy days of 1975 and the fallout of Ray Franz so I knew nothing about all that.

The change bothered me hugely, but I learned to live with it. Afterall, this was "the truth."

But I was a brand new elder at that point. I continued to see problems. There was the double standards of overlooking the "sins" of elders where other members would be required to have restrictions from a judicial committee put upon them.

There were judicial decisions that seemed different for those that had "elder" relatives and those that did not.

There was a huge amount of money problems, primarily for me- the way they figured out how to make money on natural disasters, but also the way funding was done at the circuit level for assemblies.

So 10 years past 1995, 10 years after becoming an elder, I realized I was afraid to simply google "Jehovah's Witnesses" and read what outsiders said, so I decided to do just that. I was strong, I would be able to read whatever I found and it would not hurt my spirituality. I was floored by things I did not know- joining the United Nations for the library card, disfellowshipping a former Governing Body member and having changed their shunning policy before I joined to keep these people silent, so many things in their past that involved failed prophecy and certainly their never really accepting responsibility for the failed 1975 sayings.

I was shortly later outta there.

34

Strange

by Jrjw in

a couple of times at the meetings this year we've been told that in the future we might get some strange directions from the society that might not make any sense to us.

then they've said will we show our loyalty to jehovah by still obeying?

seems a rather unusual thing to say.

OnTheWayOut

- Watchtower, November 2013 Study Edition, “Seven Shepherds, Eight Dukes,” paragraph 17

I think this was mainly put out to allow them to do what seems like improper financial decisions- taking money away, taking Kingdom Halls away, shutting down congregations, etc.

But as long as they already put it out there, they are going to use this kind of loyalty test over and over, not for the actual test of loyalty, but rather to introduce self-serving even more bizarre sounding decisions/doctrines.

11

Israel (Is Real?)

by TerryWalstrom in

jw
friends

every nation is a kind of weird intellectual construct.

when we say: china--all of us get some kind of fictional mental snapshot in our head.

sure, there is a country called "china".we just don't really know a soul living there.

OnTheWayOut

Maybe an old-school 70-something year old Texan who doesn't travel much unless he can get there on a bicycle thinks like you do. The rest of us, whether we know anyone in China or not understand that's where all the socks and eye glasses and tons of other stuff come from and we know it's pretty important in our lives.

We don't talk much about places until it's in the news. That much is true.

What Trump has done is bring this issue to the forefront. Virtually nobody was aware of the controversy. Now they are (if they wanna be). And they will learn more as the process causes uproar in the region. It will be too much to put that embassy there- too much drama and literal explosions. It'll be another "wall" that doesn't get built.