Their message is lost. That is somewhat because of the media and the way it's covered, as if people's opinions about the protest are part of the protest. It's also been lost to "the flag" and disrespect for veterans and the country, which is not what any of it is about. Add in Trump's comments and many will now protest HIM personally, so it was not the issue but it is now.
I appreciate that people are putting their careers on the line and bringing attention to THE ORIGINAL ISSUE about police brutality toward blacks. Sure, you can argue about it. That's what so great about this country.
I wear a uniform at work, work for a local government, and don't make millions. I am not willing to get fired for some kind of protest in uniform. But I also understand that you have to provoke in order to be heard. I wish people would remember stuff like that- understand WHY they do it in that way in that place. You are free to disagree with them, but at least try to understand fully. That's what brings attention to the cause and allows us to discuss it.
OnTheWayOut
JoinedPosts by OnTheWayOut
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Why the NFL Protest Is a Massive and Insulting Failure
by freemindfade ini think everyone has the freedom to protest, they also have freedom of speech, these are two fundamental things that make america amazing.
but thinking rationally about what is going on with the nfl, therefore, i have an unfavorable opinion of the league, and the players, not their right to free speech, but their motive and execution of it.
constitutional freedom to protest ends at the workplace door too.
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OnTheWayOut
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Counselling
by jhine indoes anyone know of an online site for jws who have been sexually abused in the wt ?
where someone who is in a relationship with someone who has been abused can talk to others who have had the same experience and maybe their family members ( if they are supportive obviously ) .
a friend of mine is in that situation and would like some insight into how to help their partner .
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OnTheWayOut
One of the greatest resources I have discovered are the books by Bonnie Zieman, a former JW who is now a psychotherapist. She is working with https://www.openmindsfoundation.org
I believe part of their mission is to help ex-JW's (or other former cult members) to find and help their therapists to understand what they are going through.I could suggest contacting them with your questions, and maybe they know of some people who can help.
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NEVER SAY DIE
by compound complex insome men would despair to be in my place.. i am immobile; this would seem an irreparable blow to what i have always perceived as the defining characteristics of manhood: taking risks, conquering new territory, marching forward with confidence toward a future of assured promise and prosperity.
however, this injury to my legs has become the final blow.
over the years, my once sturdy frame has been weakened by chronic illness.
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OnTheWayOut
Write on. Write on.
Thanks for inspiring us. -
Game Of Thrones Quote or Bible Verse
by OnTheWayOut inthis seemed kinda fun.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovqd6q__dze.
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OnTheWayOut
This seemed kinda fun.
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A new step in my exit from the WT
by Skepsis inif you remember, i've been posting here my subsequent steps from a regular pioneer and ms at the beginning of this year to a rank-and-file publisher after stepping down as ms two months ago.. during these months, i've been through a difficult way.
but after every step, i could feel freer and better.
i've met a person outside the wt that has changed my life forever and i have experienced a freedom of thought and an inner peace like never before.. however, i knew that staying in my hometown would make my fading very difficult.
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OnTheWayOut
Just my opinion, but one meeting in a new place may not be sufficient. It is possible they will mail back your records if they never see you again.
If you want to fade, I would skip weekend meetings and arrive late for a few mid-week meetings until I knew I was "announced." I think you have to turn in time once and wait past the end of a month.
Then I would stop all attending.
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How do the foreign language Congregations find people to call on?
by UnshackleTheChains inok. i had a fascinating conversation with one of my polish colleagues at work.
she knows i'm a jdub and an activist as have filled her in warts and all about watchtower.. she came up to me today explaining how a couple of polish witnesses came to her door.
she was curious as to how they knew to call on her door knowing she was polish.
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OnTheWayOut
I am going to suppose something here. Cannot say it as a fact.
And as I suppose this, it is possible that the situation is only localized, despite my sureness that it is not.Ok, so all that code is important to remember as I go along.
Suppose a foreign language congregation has some children that belong to schools where "worldly" people also speak that foreign language. Some parents get lists of other parents' addresses. Suppose some congregation members belong to various aid-groups for people within that foreign language culture. They might also obtain lists of addresses.
Such various lists would be technically "illegal" in many cases to share with others outside of that group, no doubt about it with school lists. It certainly would violate the intent of those who shared it with the foreign language JW to begin with.So suppose a congregation just incorporates those lists into its database and destroys the original lists they came from, therefore allowing every single member to say to the 'householder,' "No, I don't know how your name and address got onto the list. I do know that you live in an English-speaking neighborhood, so perhaps our English-speaking Witnesses made note that you were [not English-speaking]."
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Do A Majority of Those That Bother With Doctrine Reject the Current Teachings?
by OnTheWayOut inon another thread, shadow asked pimojw, a newbie still serving in a congregation, "how about the overlapping generation?
do you know anyone who actually believes that?
"answer was "no i dont!
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OnTheWayOut
I want to thank you all for your comments. I am sure there are some JW's who believe and follow the crazy explanations, unlike us who follow them to see why they are not to be believed. But it seems to me that hardly any JW's really accept stuff like "overlapping generation." So they are either in it full of doubt or they are in it because they are scared/confident/concerned that the end is imminent, possibly due to their belief in the prior doctrines. (I know I once accepted the doctrine of a 1914 generation surviving 'til the end.)
Despite my confidence that we cannot just shake our loved ones awake with challenges to the doctrine, I am now equally confident that many will wake on their own, others will appreciate our reaching out on a loving, caring level.
I am also confident that Watchtower will clearly start it's membership downfall in just a few years (or sooner). And it will reach a point of no recovery perhaps in less than 20 years. The number is pure opinion/speculation from me, but all recruitment is essentially from born-in children. A high percentage leave and both upper echelon and rank&file that stay have little faith in doctrines.
When the end doesn't come for the elderly members, more adult children and grandchildren will let their own next generation remain unbaptized.
I really am starting to believe in the Watchtower becoming what the "Bible Students" (Russelites) are today- virtually nonexistent.
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Do A Majority of Those That Bother With Doctrine Reject the Current Teachings?
by OnTheWayOut inon another thread, shadow asked pimojw, a newbie still serving in a congregation, "how about the overlapping generation?
do you know anyone who actually believes that?
"answer was "no i dont!
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OnTheWayOut
On another thread, Shadow asked PIMOJW, a newbie still serving in a congregation, "How about the overlapping generation? Do you know anyone who actually believes that?"
Answer was "no i dont! i think everyone doubts that nonsense!"
So that gets me really thinking about that.
My mother tried to tell me that when it was new and I think she confused herself and was only hanging on to it as a last-ditch effort to cling to her much older belief that the end should have come in 1975, but delays because "we don't know when Eve was created." (A long doctrinal explanation- basically saying that Eve is not 6000 years old yet.)
So their big recruitment tools in most of our lifetime has been the 1914 generation seeing the end, then specifically 1975, then the 20th century. After that, we all have a good idea how they got lost in what "generation" means in some secret code beyond what the Bible said.
So I know that my mother doesn't sit well with "overlapping generation." My thought for you on this thread is as the title says. Do you think many (or most even) that try to follow doctrine reject the current teachings from Watchtower? Does saying they are not inspired hurt them even more.
I will grant that most JW's don't keep up with the chariot of doctrine, but some still try. -
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Make Your Excellent Point to a JW, But- Remember, it's a Mind Control Cult.
by OnTheWayOut inso i am reading from many that they have an excellent thought-stopper for jw's.
(remember reasoning from the scriptures used "thought-stoppers?
)"if you just show them [this scripture or use this logic or expose this problem with the organization], you will shut them down.".
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OnTheWayOut
Ding, end of page 1:
I mean, I don't "like" that it is done, but it pretty much always gives them an answer when they don't have one.
Those are their almighty fallback answers that allow their members to turn off their brain. If you are pushed into a corner, you admit you don't know all the answers and fall back on "The light gets brighter as the day draws near."
Similarly, "Wait on Jehovah" suffices for many. I like the comment, "...training them to think in soundbites."I think that contributes to people's tendency to want to counter WT indoctrination with catchy zingers of their own.
Yes, we have zingers about the light switch flickering or the chariot going backwards and plenty more that I am not thinking about right now. They are great for us, but won't really help to shout out in a debate with a JW.Page 2:
Flipper, perhaps it will sink in one day. Keep trying.
Bungi Bill, if appeals to the emotion don't work, you are still known for giving it such a great try. -
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Make Your Excellent Point to a JW, But- Remember, it's a Mind Control Cult.
by OnTheWayOut inso i am reading from many that they have an excellent thought-stopper for jw's.
(remember reasoning from the scriptures used "thought-stoppers?
)"if you just show them [this scripture or use this logic or expose this problem with the organization], you will shut them down.".
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OnTheWayOut
sparrowdown, thanks for sharing that story. That person has come so close to a point of finding solutions, but just won't take the leap that something might be wrong with "the truth."
Xanthippe, you said "...individuals usually know how far they can go with a religious discussion so if you think it's worth a try go ahead I would say."
YES, by all means say what you can. I am not saying such talk is "useless." I just don't want to give a pass to those sure that they can defeat JW's with logic and doctrine discussions.
More on that with my comment to Punk:
punkofnice said: "I'd call it realistic. Standard jobo responses are varied but seem to hinge around - circular reasoning, wait on Jehovah(tm) or 'are you an apostate(tm)?'"
Great comment. I don't attack the doctrine very much with my JW wife or mother, mainly because I don't want to lose them to that question, "Are you an apostate?"
I would rather slowly win them over, and if that fails, maintain good relations. Good relations tends to lead them toward realizing that I am not evil, not mentally diseased, and perhaps they could examine THEIR doubts as the organization continues to take their money and deny truths and change the Doomsday calendar.