Thanks guys!
Randy
Dogpatch
JoinedPosts by Dogpatch
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I have heard some people say that Randy Watters/Dogpatch has flip-floped on Hellfire Torment
by booker-t in -
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Whatever happened to Watchtower Comments?
by braincleaned init saddens me that watchtower comments has been absent online for the past 3 years!
what the hell happened?
anyone knows?.
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Dogpatch
Yes, I recoomend for most people leaving, if they do not intend on starting a ministry or org. to help JWs, and for once in their life experience freedom, to literallly put the WT out of their minds and lives as much as possible.
After leaving the WT my family doesn't even think about them at all. And they are quite happy back in a church.
I don't blame them!
Enjoy life!Why let such a stupid organization continue to control your life.
My condolences to those who CAN'T escape it for whatever reason. My heart goes out to them.
To me, it's my job. I don't mind, and most of the time I enjoy what I do... but I am overworked and need to switch things up.
Randy
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I have heard some people say that Randy Watters/Dogpatch has flip-floped on Hellfire Torment
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Dogpatch
Flip-flopped?
I have never believed in hellfire and torment in my life. Nor have I ever believed in the early history of the earth as told in Genesis. I drew dinosaurs as a kid and paleontology and Egyptology were my favorite subjects at about the age of 10 or 11. "Adam and Eve" were also a bit much for me.
All the multitude of articles I have written on doctrine (mostly in the early 80s) remain on my site that I have ever written, and I still support them as accurate. But they are, for the most part, written to clarify history and basic evangelical doctrine (I was a Foursquare pastor for several years after leaving the JWs) for the purpose of correcting the erroneous views of the WT on basic Bible doctrines. It doesn't necessarily mean I believed them. And I never lied about it - It's just that no one ever asked! I didn't believe everything Foursquare taught, either. My philosophy is to "love people more and believe them (their philosophies that are non-verifiable) less." :-))
I'm not really fascinated by philosophies men invent in their heads. But I do love people, I think churches can be the best help that people in need can get (assuming you find a good one) and I do love what I know about Jesus, and gave my life to him as a small child at 9 years old, and still feel his Spirit within me. Perhaps it sounds subjective to you, but that's me. Remember, I grew up in the 60s as a hippie, and almost all of us saw Jesus as a hero or Lord, but we didn't care less about churches or man-made doctrines. It was a more personal, spiritual thing, and still is.
The article found at: http://www.randallwatters.org/hellcomp.htm was in response to a challenge by a Carlin Venus, a disfellowshipped "anointed" JW who challenged me on whether the early Christians believed in hell. I spent close to 6 months comparing the two most common views of hell in the evangelical and cult worlds, and ended up created a side-by-side comparison of the best quotes on the classics, "Death and the Afterlife" by Robert Morey, and "The Fire That Consumes" by Edward W. Fudge. Both are excellent works of scholarship, and I read Fudge's book that Carlin sent me and almost felt that it represented what the first century Christian believed, until I read Morey's book, which addresses some more critical issues that Fudge did not bring out. The purpose was to prove to a JW that the early church very much DID believe in a fiery hel... sinners on the grill, where Jehovah and his angels would take delight for all eternity in seeing sinners roast in Gehenna. The point in writing the article was to prove that the Pharisees AND the early Christians, including Jesus, DID believe in a fierty hell as described in the Talmud, with minor variations.
I would never in my life believe in such a horrid concept that would make God out to be worse than Hitler. Even as a Baptist in my youth. Delighting in watching torture forever? Pretty sick if you ask me. But the concept did not originate from Jesus OR the Pharisees, it was part of certain strains of Greek philosophy centuries earlier, and of course pagan cultures before that. They already had well-developed concepts of Gehenna, Tartarus, the Lake of Fire, Sheol, immortality of the soul, etc. that was simply borrowed by the Pharisees long before Jesus came along.
Leolaia has made some great posts on the Talmud and where many so-called Bible doctrines originated. It's a little deep, but look up some of her posts, she's an amazing writer and well-versed in such topics. BTW I wrote that back in the early 80s, and although siding with Morey, Dr. Fudge liked it and actually gave me permission to use it without copyright violation a year AFTER I wrote ity, if I would send him two copies of the book.
If you find it too small in type to read, you can get the book at: http://www.freeminds-store.com/books/hell-a-critique-of-two-different-views-traditionalism-vs-conditionalism.html
Another example of the fact that 95% of what the Watchtower "says" the early Christians (pre-Constantine) believed is completely lies. They lived in a whole different world of demons and torture and cosmology back then.
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Taking a break from AJWRB due to lack of interest
by Shawn10538 inwell, i've given it a year of my life and i hoped it would have taken off a bit stronger.
i thought it was a good cause and still do.
but i can't pay my bills and i can no longer justify spending time on the cause of saving lives with blood transfusions.
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Dogpatch
Michael Sean Dean (aka Zen Galileo) is no longer associated with Free Minds, Inc. for the record. A "cease and desist" letter from my attorney Jeffrey Hersh has been issued.
Due to the stress of revamping AJWRB, I have given back the AJWRB.ORG site to its original owner, Liberal Elder, and they are in the process of reconstructing the site. Free Minds and AJWRB remain on good terms. AJWRB is applying for non-profit status and in the meantime any tax-deductible donations to their cause can be routed through Free Minds - just specify your donation is for AJWRB.
Randall Watters
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Dogpatch
Hi Londo,
That isn't quite what I said, you may want to reread the article at:
How The Watchtower's Unholy Trinity Speaks
My third "voice" mentioned was between the secret top brass to certain trusted elders in iffy situations, where they break all their own rules and give advice to save their butts... but they would never publish that, even to the elders at large. This is perhaps the greatest of all sicko preserve-the-org-at-all-costs part, that only a privileged few will ever get the core primal instructions. It's ironic, but the ones who REALLY run the show at Bethel are kept secret to most, like the Adams brothers. (If Don Adams is still alive he is the current president of the Penn. corp.). People like him are really the ones the rest of Bethel fears the most, even those on the GB, who are really just pawns with limited power. Think of it like a REAL conspiracy.
These are some of the REAL power people. Just ask Barbara Anderson about that... she knew and worked with most of the "hidden heavies."
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania (Incorporated 1884)
President Don A. Adams
Vice Presidents Robert W. Wallen, William F. Malenfant (bad infant?)
Secretary/Treasurer Richard E. Abrahamson
Directors Danny L. Bland, Philip D. Wilcox, John N. Wischuk
Another secret that is known by only a few is that the GB used to trust Bethel elders far more than Circuit or District overseers, who were out in the "world" and could become rogues or say the wrong thing, simply because they really never lived with these old men, and didn't know their real power or the hidden heirarchy of the org. The GB was NOT and never will be the real power people. And you will not know who they are unless you actually live and work alongside them and watch who fears them. I actually think that's why they ended the Bethel elder arrangement... they could expose such secrets if they defected. How could they maintain such a conspiracy for so many decades? They had the dirt on everyone, and kept it to themselves until needed. :-))
Article repeated below.
Randy
The Unholy Trinity Speaks
Most Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that when the Society appears to clearly designate a new doctrinal position on some issue, like blood transfusions, it is what they really follow and believe. Such naivete' is typical of those who have never worked in a large corporation.
The Watch Tower is indeed a corporation, an ENTITY in and of itself, with its own personality, modeled after the past and current leadership. All such entities, religious or secular, seek to protect themselves at all costs, and most of the employees know they are expendable for the “greater good” of the organization.
Its profits and goals are the most important issues to maintain, again, at all costs. Unscrupulous and/or plainly illegal techniques are used to keep the true policies and financial records from the public in most organizations. The larger they are, the more attorneys they will employ in order to protect the entity from harm or absolute extinction.
Many religious organizations are often no different. Although they seem to appear godly and speak reverently, it is a game of power – the Game of Thrones. A single church or branch may be honest, but the larger corporate identity will always have multiple rats in the closet. Subversive and cloaked policies are set in place to prevent damage to their reputation when their power or resources are challenged.
Due to potential leaks of the “unspoken secrets,” they are prepared to sacrifice individuals that might tend to have a big mouth. These “higher secrets” are almost NEVER put in print, but are spread by word of mouth among a handful of powerful leaders that keep each other in check through either mutual benefit or fear of exposure of their own crimes. The addition of a Public Relations Department that has exclusive rights to tell the “truth” about the organization is a sure sign that they have things to hide. They are there to present a pristine image to the public, a moral one, while never allowing anyone else as a spokesman for the organization; lest in their ignorance they divulge secrets from one of the other mouths of the multi-faced god. In fact, there are often more than just two mouths; the WT has at least three I have personally witnessed. These mouths of the three-headed god must keep secrets involving policies and goals that the public would not appreciate. Yet there is an inequality in this pecking order… all the mouths do not speak the same thing. The rank-and-file Witnesses who deceive the public usually do not know what is spewing from the next mouth up, which involves information or procedures that only leaders (elders) are to know.
The Public Relations man is on the next level up. Because of his potential to do great damage to the organization if he says the politically incorrect thing to the public, and potentially ruinous to the godhead if he defected, he is given a script to follow by the third level to tell the public in times of need. His job is to present favorable information in an exaggerated or devious way, in an attempt to distract people from important questions that need to be answered. Each time an answer is to be given to an outsider or even a lesser-ranked member of the organization, it is carefully tailored to what audience is being addressed. Within the sacred halls of Bethel, very few are entrusted with the organization’s REAL policies, finances, and so forth. In some cases, it might just be one or two such leaders at the top. And they have VERY TIGHT-LIPPED mouths! So in a big organization with several levels of obfuscation over others lower in the hierarchy, only a handful are really running the show, and the show may be completely different than what is visible to the public.
The Watch Tower organization is a prime example. In MANY ways, it has mastered duplicity among the peons beneath them. First with the public media and their public Watchtower and Awake! magazines, by giving mostly devious answers to outsider’s questions, but also to the average Witness as well. They make their policies sound convincing using the Bible to twist the truth. They are NEVER to admit mistakes. The three-headed Jehovah has spoken! All but the most seasoned of JWs know the trick of “theocratic warfare." MOST Witnesses are convinced the first mouth, the P.R. man, is speaking the truth, or are so confused by the continual changes in policy that they just avoid saying much of anything. WOE to the Witness who reveals the three-headed god’s secrets!
How do we know?
Consider this small sampling of completely contradictory policies.
Sexual Abuse and Pedophilia
Case in point is the recent history of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society regarding elders who have been caught in sexual crimes. Filthy crimes, like child molestation and sex and prostitution rings. Because of the hugely negative publicity this results in (as demonstrated by the Catholic Church in recent years), the survival of “God’s organization” requires every one of these to be swept under the rug, and any publishers who know the secrets are threatened with disfellowshipping AND destruction at the hand of this unholy trinity. I have heard hundreds of testimonies in the last 30 years since leaving WT headquarters of mothers who let elders or other men in the congregation abuse their children, all because of the grave penalty that telling the police would bring on their heads. The first-level P.R. mouth will always say (up until just recently) that the publisher(s) must ALWAYS call Bethel’s Service Dept. for instructions and warnings FIRST; and even though they say just recently that a JW can call the police, the other mouths of the unholy trinity most certainly do not want that to happen!
Pressure is applied to keep their mouths shut, or else! ONLY the unholy trinity can speak on such matters! If you are so dumb as to ignore their advice, the top mouth of the unholy trinity will instruct the second mouth what to do in order to mitigate the problem. A few lawsuits in these matters in recent years has made their lips even tighter, so they can whisper to each other on the proper “procedure” to use in dealing with the errant publisher or distraught child. Dozens of such horror stories have been exposed by Freeminds in the form of Letters to the Editor and on our website in the last 30 years. We have FOUR BOOKS in print on Letters to the Editor alone that contain these stories in the Freeminds Store.
The inner core of WT leadership (top mouth) even refuses to give up their “biblical” policy of the need for two witnesses of the SAME CRIME to commit the pedophile to the courts! Like there are ever going to be two simultaneous witnesses to the same exact incident who are going to exist, let alone testify. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. In the meantime, the elder may step down for 1-5 years or so, continue going door-to-door, and if he seems repentant after his crime, he may even be reinstated as an elder! This has happened on a number of occasions, but since the elders are often “shuffled around,” the crimes may go unknown to the moms and dads in the new congregation. Often they even remain in the same congregation in relatively good standing. After all, Mother knows best. It is in her best interest to keep the brats quiet.
Public Lectures, Special Talks and Defending the Organization
Actually all of this sacrificing of elders who talked too much goes way back to Rutherford, the second president, and some say to Charles Taze Russell himself. In effect, heads with overactive mouths were severed using sharpened Bibles and threats of shunning and damnation. Knorr was no improvement, callously inflicting banal punishments on those he didn’t like. Nathan Knorr and Fred Franz did not believe in a trinity! It was too risky to have a dozen talking heads with a limited education in charge of things. Fred Franz made that very plain in a Gilead Missionary graduation at the Queens assembly hall to 2000 Bethelites (including myself) in 1975. Knorr even brought Ted Jaracz in with a crackin’ whip to gain complete control of the Service Dept. and basically the Governing Body, too. Thank God he bit the dust in 1977, as almost everyone at Bethel hated him.
But Knorr was dying of cancer and this was his last act of revenge on the unappreciative organization. He was practically Jehovah himself, and there was to be only ONE GOD. ONE MOUTH. Imagine if Jehovah had 18 mouths! Secrets would be leaked (and they were when Ray Franz, Fred’s nephew on the Governing Body, was disfellowshipped and wrote an expose’ with Crisis of Conscience in 1981. I witnessed all of this as a Bethel elder during my six years stay in Brooklyn.
Knorr had a reputation to use his mouth as a sword to keep order. Then he died. But no first or second level mouth of the unholy trinity would put up with Fred Franz at the wheel, so they ushered him out quietly. Knorr was the top mouth, but even he was kept in check at times by a handful of others who knew all the dark secrets in Brooklyn and of Knorr himself. Few Witnesses today know who REALLY runs the organization, but they are still there. And they aren’t on the new Governing Body. Even most Bethelites are clueless as to who runs the joint.
Ruthless leaders are sometimes awful public speakers, and those who have the charm and a better heart to lead are silenced. Colin Quakenbush, one-time editor of the Awake! magazine for years, was sacked by Knorr because he drew large crowds at special gatherings for a upbeat lecture. He was invited back after Knorr died, but never regained any real power.
Another Bethelite relative in the Quackenbush clan and his wife accidently had a baby and were so disgusted with having to leave Bethel over that development, they treated him like dirt and his mother literally told him that she wished he had never been born to them. No wonder Mark Quakenbush’s cartoons he drew in the Pressroom, when he came to Bethel, were so sarcastic of the corrupt leadership! Mark left in 1980 with the rest of us who despised the cowards in charge, and was so hurt and angry at how his parents ruined his life he later changed his name – never again to be a Quakenbush. But Mark taught me a lot of what went on inside the organization just by his cartoons. I had to make up my own cartoon book of Bethel stories as well from my observations, after Mark left.
The Punishing Nature of Nathan H. Knorr
Knorr was smart. He knew he would be the last charismatic, hardline leader that would keep the Watchtower going. Cults have a half-life, and his death signaled the beginning of the end of the organization as we know it. It will survive many years more only because of the $billions in property they own, and their new efforts to drastically cut costs by cutting out a large chunk of printing… suggesting to the publishers how much to give to the Society at conventions, when picking up books and magazines, cutting magazine distribution nearly in half and even the size of one Watchtower a month to 16 pages instead of 32, and making sure little old ladies put the Watch Tower Society in their wills to deprive their family of any inheritance. They are VERY AGGRESSIVE in this. They would steal an old lady’s handbag if it had a deed to her property, and they do, in effect, by their clever policies.
Something quite unknown to most Witnesses is that they receive generous outside funds to teach classes for the deaf and dumb, even to non-Witnesses. They are cutting back on the number of meetings and assemblies very soon, and have already mentioned that in writing. They must be losing money on the conventions now. They definitely lost a large chunk of income after the California court case involving Jimmy Swaggart, where they filed a "friend of the court" to observe. If a congregation orders too much literature and doesn't pay what the WT thinks they should (based on the old prices before the Jimmy Swaggart sales tax dodge lawsuit), they will STOP sending the congregation more books! This is documented by several ministerial servants who worked in the congregation literature room, but almost completely unknown even to the average Witness.
Most lucrative of all, they buy property cheap, fix it up so it can easily be converted to luxury apartments later with free Witness labor, then sell it for millions in New York. Even now their Brooklyn Heights properties are worth over a billion dollars. They are selling them off now to survive. They have all but moved to several new facilities in upstate New York, mainly in Patterson. Another clever tactic - as they slowly die out they buy cheap property, greatly enhance its secular value at the expense of the rank-and-file, and then years later sell it at a tremendous, tax-free profit. Plus they basically own all the tens of thousands of Kingdom Halls and the property they sit on, after making the local Witnesses pay for it!
Fear of the “Anointed”
One teaching that will likely bring them down real soon is that up until recently they pretended that all the 144,000 “anointed” would rule the earth in the New System as kings with Jesus. Of course since only 300 of these were at Bethel in 1975, and much less now, rarely did any of these have any say whatsoever in the operation of the organization, or even writing a magazine article. For years now virtually all articles are written by those of the “Great Crowd.” Now many of the "Great Crowd" are starting to partake of the bread and wine at their yearly memorials, claiming they are now "anointed."
So just as in 1979 when Ray Franz and others' findings revealed no basis for many of their teachings (607 BCE for the destruction of Jerusalem, the "two class" system, etc.), the power-hungry Governing Body freaked. If you collected all the Watchtower magazines from 2011 to present, almost every issue now warns of:
NO higher education. If you are an elder and promote college, you will likely be forced to step down. This is in their new secret elder’s book, “Shepherding the Flock of God.”
Being of the “anointed” means nothing. They are no more aware of God or life or heaven than anyone else in the organization, so if they start getting popular by claiming to be anointed, DON’T LISTEN TO THEM.
This is pure paranoia; they know the writing is on the wall. There are no more charismatic leaders at Bethel. A smart and popular local elder could easily start a divisive sect. More outspoken and charismatic Witnesses would follow in various parts of the world, and the Watchtower will likely go the way of the Worldwide Church of God (Herbert W. Armstrong) when he died… a bunch of small sects scattered around the earth. Ambassador College was closed, and the remnants of the leadership that were good people became evangelicals! The rest kept following men, just like when Russell died and several sects of Bible Students came forth.
Hey, Christian Science is still alive and has money, but who goes into their reading rooms anymore? The world has changed and the Watchtower is a 19 th century laughingstock of a religion, THE only prophet of Jehovah for 133 years, and yet they are no more than a sick carnival act. They have NOTHING TO OFFER ANYONE ANYMORE. In 133 years not one of their prophecies have come true. Most fortune tellers get at least 50% results!
So the Titanic Watchtower will hit an iceberg soon, if their fear is felt by the local Witnesses. Opportunistic men will seize the day. People don't cater to cowardly, unknown leaders in religions. Unfortunately, there are not near enough lifeboats to save them all.
If more of us take heart, we can save the lives of many of them. We can teach them new skills and how to live in the open world. But if we are going to keep the ball rolling, we are in need of a significant amount of funds. Believe me, we run a tight ship financially.
Stay tuned for our new project called RandyTV.com and 13seconds.org. Much of these funds will go for setting up new forums and links to help services, social networking for all types of persons who have left the Watchtower, writing contests and video forums. We want to see rejected Witnesses learn skills, find jobs, get exit-counseling, and learn to live in the real world.
Sadly, we are finding many former Bethelites who are very poor and have no health insurance, and are lucky if they can even pay their rent. We can't pay their bills, but we can help them locate the best resources to get back on their feet.
At Bethel my salary was $14 a month for six years, and (coming from an youthful evangelical Baptist background) I tithed $5 of it to Bethel. I have learned to sacrifice much in my life.
If you can help us, we can do much more. We have a new Treasurer and blogger, Lance Goller, who was at Bethel as a Gilead student, who recently graduated from college with the business savvy needed for non-profit bookkeeping and other much-needed skills.
Have you ever met a JW that got kicked out for taking blood (without other issues being involved)? But that is the secret of the top two mouths of the Watchtower’s unholy trinity. JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES TAKE BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS ALL THE TIME! It’s time to stop the word games and quit repeating their lies.
The Watchtower pretends it’s time for a parade! They tell everyone they are growing, they are expanding, and they are keeping up with technology, and have all new desperate tricks to fool people. Now they are advocating the Witnessses get on their new Internet site, jws.org, and get their literature in digital format - after demonizing the Internet for the last decade. Cutting way down on literature costs will save them millions per month.
The mouths just can't get it right. It’s not even sad, it’s funny. The dying throws of an aging 19 th century cult are upon us - not by disappearing or going broke, but by defection and soon-to-come competition. There’s MY prophecy.
So let's have a quick review...
Written Review Time on the Unholy Trinity
The Mouth That Speaks to the Elders
The local elders in the congregation are given special instructions at elders' meetings every few months, where a representative of the New York corporation makes known its new policies and procedures, especially in matters of handling judicial committees, apostates, fornicators, and in general anyone or anything that causes trouble in the organization. Since the organization is deeply rooted in legalism and punishment and perpetual shame rather than the grace of Christ (as they are supposed to), the elders will follow what they learn from the “Shepherding the Flock of God” book, the special meeting instructions, and advice given over the phone by the Service Dept.
The Mouth That Speaks Only in Situations to Others One-on-One
Over the eight years of time I spent as a member of the Watchtower organization, serving at its higher levels, and especially when I was appointed one of the special 300 “inner circle” of Bethel elders at the time, I was able to attend secret meetings with the Governing Body periodically, and these were occasions when the powers-that-be spoke openly and let down their hair, revealing the true emotions and the primal drive behind each leader. It was extremely enlightening to learn the character of each of these men, and how their individual styles contributed to the “personality” of the greater entity, the Mother Organization. This “godhead” of the Watchtower is protected by their own enforcement police team, the Service Department. They are the keepers of the inner policies that the Watch Tower will not put into print for fear of legal reprisals or losing legal recognition as a religion in other parts of the world.
Though never having served in the Service Dept. (Bethel hell), I gained quite a bit of insight into what I call the “third mouth” of Watchtowerspeak. I lived on the 10 th floor of the 107 building facing Manhattan and the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges. My room was adjacent to that of Harley Miller and his wife Brook (who rarely left her room except in a bathrobe). At that time (mid-80s) Harley was in charge of the Service Dept. I guess the Bethel office was too cheap to put a phone in his room (a serious misjudgment) so he had to step outside of his room to use or answer the hall phone, which was a few feet away from my door.
Trouble is, hallways carry noise quite well, so I often got to listen at length to Harley’s conversations with Circuit and District overseers and elders who had difficult decisions to make with problems such as child molesters or crooks or “apostates” or whatever was the flavor of the day. I don’t actually remember much citing of any Bible verses in Harley’s answers. It was either his own learned “wisdom” in protecting the reputation of the organization at all costs, or was most-often created on the fly, using common sense and appropriate organizational problem-squashing techniques. Cronyism was quite common, and his advice often differed according to who liked Harley Miller or knew him personally. It was rather noticeable, as sometimes very different answers were given for the same problems that you see in the “second level” of Watchtower secrecy, their elders’ handbook, “Shepherding the Flock of God.”
But the elder’s books were always intentionally printed with wide margins on both sides of the page, and elders were instructed to put “second level” secrets (those secrets too legally problematic to be put in print where outsiders might get ahold it it). These books were NOT to be kept once they ceased to be elders, as they very much desired no one else to get their hands on them. But if they did, the writing of the ELDERS who owned the book could be disputed, as the Society had only printed things in it that were vague enough to be interpreted many ways (which it is!) I know a lot of people would like to read the “secret” elder’s book and they have, only to be bored out of their mind because it rarely says anything they don’t already know if they are in tune with the organization.
The darker side of the “third level” mouth of this unholy Trinity is the hiding of criminals and pedophiles. Often the legal department has to get involved in these. They involve such matters as what to do when a JW secretly donates all of their possessions to the Watch Tower at their death, excluding the family, and how to harass the victim and the courts into getting their due money, often rudely brushing off the bereaved family, making them fend for themselves. (A déjà vu of when Knorr one time refused to pay a one-way ticket for a sick missionary to come home, and she jumped ship in despair on the way back home.) They have also been famous at paying the court costs of child custody cases, so that the children remain with the JW parent. This was VERY effective, as few people can afford custody attorneys on their own, so the WT would often win by threatening the other party with bankruptcy. They even wrote a secret book on how to “educate” the child as to what to say in court, called Preparing for Child Custody Cases. It has no author or date listed inside, and is very difficult to get a copy of it.
The Service Dept. mantle was eventually passed on to Ted Jaracz, a Governing Body member appointed by then-president Nathan Knorr, close to his death. Jaracz was to be the new head of the Service Dept., knowing it would rankle the REST of the newly-appointed Governing Body in the late 70s. President Knorr and Vice-President Frederick W. Franz greatly opposed a Governing Body, preferring an autocratic ruling president, such as Rutherford and Knorr had been.
Thus began, in around 1977-1978, the darkest years in Watch Tower history thus far, where any vestige of the Bible’s teachings on “grace” were replaced with the Pharisaical hard hand, demanding full obedience to the organization.
Fear and Lying
The Watch Tower is once again afraid of takeover from within by some charismatic elder or elders who dare to openly disagree with WT policy. They are deathly afraid of an inevitable schism. Well, my Watch Tower friends, that schism is not only coming but has existed in infant stages for years, starting in Africa and now leading out to Brazil and other countries who suddenly have access to information negative towards the Watch Tower. It’s happening to the Mormons and Scientology as well. As I write, many Portuguese Witnesses in Brazil are picketing the Watch Tower for its shunning practices.
Other countries are re-assessing the lies told to Bulgaria (in their efforts to become recognized as a legitimate religion), where the WT P.R. machine plainly said, “We do not disfellowship our members for taking blood transfusions.” But in secret Bethel meetings, the third-level guardians of the inner secrets instruct the elders that when someone breaks one of the Society’s laws or openly disagree with any doctrine, they are “disassociating themselves.” But they have quit that secretly even now, while still scaring the rank-and-file over it. There’s your third and hidden to all but a few mouth of the unholy trinity.
There may be more heads on this false prophet called "Jehovah." But for now, I clearly see a head with three lying mouths speaking different things to different people. Three heads on one person makes for arguments, however, so let the schisms come and put Jesus back where he belongs in the minds of seven million plus Witnesses.
Randy Watters
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Whatever happened to Watchtower Comments?
by braincleaned init saddens me that watchtower comments has been absent online for the past 3 years!
what the hell happened?
anyone knows?.
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Dogpatch
I own the domain and it is still up on my server.
V just up and disappeared about a year ago, never bothered to say what he was up to. No disagreements or anything, he just disappeared and wouldn't answer any mail or anything.
That's V ! :-)) Maybe he's plotting an uprising in London or something.
I think working on the Joomla site at Freeminds blew his mind. It blew mine for 2 years, with 3 gigs and 3800 articles.
Paul Morrison (Besty) ended up graciously and patiently trying to fix the bugs, but Juan Viejo is fixing it to a more smart phone, smart pad and user-friendly site for bloggers. and it is being converted to Wordpress format - it's already being constructed and will be more powerful and better than ever. Paul is back in London and doing well, and is still on our Board of Directors, as is Lance Goller (former Gilead student who knows finances and non-profits well, and handles my taxes, etc.)
I can't learn whole new programs - I have too many things to do and it is too much for me. Juan can run circles around me. :-))
I hope to include the following domains of mine all on the one site as well:
Sparlock.TV (NOT using any copyright violations - more like South Park and Jackass in one show)
exJWs.net (not yet thought out)
and maybe one or two more of the 48 domains Freeminds owns. Most of these have been functioning for years, but it's time to mash them all together and get my groove on. At 60, it's time for the grand finale! :-))
RandyTV already has the Candace Conti videos, and I have an interview with Steven Hassan in the can as soon as I can get to editing it, and Greg Stafford will be one of my upcoming guest interviews. (Surprise!)
The entire operation will be dedicated to the hoard of Witnesses that will be leaving in the days ahead as the WT fragments and is plagued with more and more sects developing. It is a cycle of cults - no speculation is necessary. But when and how it will happen is still developing as we speak. It will be all about recovery and reinventing onesself. All persons are welcome, except troublemakers. I will be posting more in a few weeks, but if anyone is interested in volunteering, there will be a lot of volunteers needed, including mods, writing teachers, videographer teachers, counselors, and much more. I am sickened at how the WT is putting people - good people - out to die. Sorry, no New Age stuff. All the articles on the Bible will of course remain, and many Christians will still be onboard (I think I've lost all my good atheists!) LOL
I will still just be an Okie Jesus Freak. No religious organizations allowed, though we will likely have a Bible forum.
The GB knows they are on a downhill slide. All the stupid things they are saying and doing this lasy 18 months or so is in preparation for keeping as many JWs locked in as possible - except for the thinkers.
I have given back AJWRB.ORG to its founders - it proved to be too much of a burden for me. Kudos to Marvin Shilmer and Lee Elder, who are truly good men.
As far as Paul, V and I, We are all still good friends. (I hope V is doing good wherever he is. V, are you out there?)
More soon!
Randy
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375
The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil
by Dogpatch indear randall.
good morning!.
here is the daniel of brazil (former bethel).. this week at the forum of former jehovah's witnesses had an interesting news!
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Dogpatch
I just passed on the email as it came to me... apparently the author used Google or some other software to translate it into English, but it is lacking. Thanks Mind Blown for making some of it more comprehensible. I am not attempting to explain it to you, merely passing it on. My emails are like a stock ticker, and are sometimes 3-4 days late or longer before I can get around to posting the more interesting things. I just have too many hats to wear running Freeminds, which is almost all done myself (we do have volunteer board members, such as Lance Goller (treasurer) and Paul Morrison, who has been my greatest allies in improving our communications, but they have their own jobs, leaving most all the ordinary banal work to do myself. I am and will always be the only salaried board member. I find that I can get more done that way, and if I need some part-time work done, like folding newsletters and mailing, writing a particular author, or doing investigative video reports, I can hire outsiders and 1099 them. I am simply not a fan of most organizational politics, so I try to keep it as least complicated as possible. I can hire someone to do a particular job.
Over the years many have tried to become some kind of "branch" of Free Minds, Inc. but I find it more work than it's worth, as I have to train them to do all the peculiar work myself. Plus few understand my 30-year unfolding plan to deprogram all of you (just kidding!) Plus I can play the "dumb okie" part and use my style, rather than present some facade or conglomerate entity that is not ne and that must water its message down to suit all the board members (though they are in place to keep a close eye on my antics, and two of my board members are not Christian, two are). Another advantage is that I can write what I want when I want, without having to play the alter ego of "organization," or seek to placate potential supporters that I am some super-orthodox Christian. I smply love Jesus and I do very much feel I have a relationship with him. After 8 years in the WT and about 13 years afterwards as a pastor without pay, I am convinced we need less invisible organizational entities and more individuals who can speak their mind, yet have wise advisors to keep me in check.
I choose Christians only because they are the ones of my generation who established the basis for community action against the Watchtower's abuses, yet remaining somewhat free of large organizational issues. Free Minds' income is about 85% contributions and 15% sales (thanks to the digital age books and videos are not purchased much anymore). But actually I would, if I had more funds, do away with sales altogether, as I don't want to die shipping books at 80 years old. I love to blog, but I haven't had much time lately. I will be doing more at the end of the summer. I would love to spend more time on this board, but I am limited to about 10 minutes a day just to pick up and drop off news... so I often miss certain things for 3-4 days until they are drawn to my attention.
My background is a hippie/Jesus Freak, having grown up in the Cold War era of the 60s. My girlfriend Renee, myself, and two longtime buddies rented a house on the Strand in Newport Beach in 1970, long hair, drugs and all, but having grown up as a Baptist I had Christian leanings. Though I take Christian history, the development of the canon of the New Testament, and "doctrine" with a grain of salt and do not and never have believed in hellfire, the accuracy of Genesis, and have ALWAYS believed in evolution, I had a real physical and supernatural experience with Jesus that lasted 10 days in the first year of my ministry upon leaving the JWs. Though some of my writings may seem to indicate I am not in tune with the Bible (after all it was voted together by organizations of men, and nowhere did Jesus start a congregation, church, or organization... nor did he attempt to explain his nature with the Father in Greek philosophical terms... he was my hero, and I gave my life to serving Him at a Billy Graham crusade when I was 9 years old... and it was a real conversion. Years later, I just happened to get lost in the sea of men's organizations. Going back to the simple model of Jesus is actually coming back in style, by the way, as people see the manmade and less-than-pure motives of some "Christian" organizations. Thus my hesitancy to call myself Christian in some circles because it would imply I accept all the councils of men who try to fit the disparate books that have been compiled into a "Bible" (something Jesus never suggested - the sacred Jewish writings were the Jewish scriptures), it didn't take long for man to take over in a multitude of "apologist" roles, from the very beginning of the church. I bought into that partiallly for a time. But like even most seminarians who study the Bible from a more scientific, historical and linguistic viewpoint, there are not a few discrepancies. That is to be expected, as all civilizations continually rewrite their vown history and change their doctrines to "fit in" to modern times.
I think we will see more of this return to Christ in a simple way among those who leave the Watchtower, especially among those who have no evangelical or Catholic/Greek Orthodox background.
While I have written much on doctrine in the early years, and all of it is on Freeminds.org, I tended to write more "third-person" so as not to persuade others that these doctrines are all true and are completely MY viewpoint. But I still do believe they represent as close as possible the beliefs of the pre-Nicene church. The usefulness of this is in showing groups like Jehovah's Witnesses that they are lying about church history, and even if some things the early church taught are difficult to believe in a modern world. But it proves they are lying.
The main mark of a follower of Christ according the Acts 1-5 was a repentance, conversion to the tenets of Christ, and the devotion to a newer, more selfless life. It happened in a flash of time. No 6-month Bible studies, no joining an organization, and no collective egos to weaken or even counter the message of Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit
Juan has been working in revamping my entire collection of websites and asks for no money in return. Most all of outside help comes from non-paid contributors. I am so grateful for such selfless, loving people without whom I could never have survived. Plus I have 30 years of close Christian friends (see watchtowerworld.org) that are mostly retired, but very much still want to be a part of helping people, and so (as is always seen on the front of the Free Minds page) there is a link to the site where you can contact the founding "apostates" who have come to believe in Christianity after leaving the WT. They love to help people and there are phone numbers and emails to reach them... people I admire like Joan Cetnar, Ed Gruss, Grace, Tom Cabeen, the Jansmas, and so many more. They WANT to talk and help others in need. Plus the site is a reminder of who has gone before you and done the REAL work that was much harder back then. I avoid recommending hard-core fundys as I prefer people leaving the WT to go back to where they got off the road to sanity and learn to trust their own judgments rather than that of others - something often rare in our societies.
The downside is, I get backed up. But I do have a faithful core group of supporters who contribute to our work and keep us going. Most of them I have met personally, and some have been supporters for nearly 30 years!
I think people like these brothers in Brazil are coming to realize similar things about religious organizations, and the internet has been a major source of change.
Right now I'm stuck on a phone call to Australia so I will continue this on another post or on my website, for what it's worth. I've rambled enough. :-))
Randy
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375
The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil
by Dogpatch indear randall.
good morning!.
here is the daniel of brazil (former bethel).. this week at the forum of former jehovah's witnesses had an interesting news!
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Dogpatch
Sorry, I forgot to post the second email from Daniel Dos Santos:
Yesterday Mr. Spinoza gave us an idea of ??what "might" be involved in this doctrinal change: Re: Zonal Superintendent will visit Brazil in January 2012
Mensagempor Roncalli Spinoza in 02 Aug 2012 07:34 Hello everybody! I would bet my chips on a general change in the rules governing judicial committees. There is a consensus among some men in front here in Brazil, as in other parts of the world, especially among European brethren, that these standards need to be revised. Overall, they lead the elders involved in the judicial committees to develop a spirit of punishment rather than correction and help. It turns out that many who are disfellowshipped, for example, fornication, would be better helped if they stayed within the congregation, receiving attention and love. Recently, the Governing Body commissioned a worldwide survey on the impact that the rates of disassociation have on fundraising volunteers. He then joined the average donation by siblings in each country, we took into account the amount of dissociated in each country, the values ??rounded down, and even then, the amount of money that the practice of disassociation makes the organization is losing really considerable. (At least here in Brazil was so) Also, the number of hours of service that is lost with the practice of disassociation also bothers. The challenge is to find a way to balance things, a way that does not require the congregation to lower their moral standards, but it also does not require the congregation to lose so many members. The growth of the mass of disassociated and decreasing number of readmissions are also worrying. In the long term, the organization loses much. In days like ours, religions hardened in their ways, inflexible and adaptable little suffering. See example of declining Catholic. I think that the Governing Body may not change its policy of expelling the practitioners of what they consider sin, but maybe soften their policies very judicial hearings. This may be a truly historic moment and definitive for Jehovah's Witnesses. It's just my guess. At bottom, perhaps as just a small thing. Regards to all.
_______________________________
http://extestemunhasdejeova.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11051
Good night ...
Since we began to denounce the discrimination suffered by former members of Jehovah's Witnesses, sena entered into a flood of complaint against the harlatanismo, discrimination in other denominations, especially in the context of preaching the theology of prosperity.
This time, enter in the crosshairs of investigations into the Universal Church.
Lo and behold, not only is the Church Universal is that atrocities against its members practicing in the field of money does not. Watch as occurs within the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses: The magazine, Watchtower and Awake, are the cornerstone for the expansion of its wind graphs, the most modern in the world, and give impetus to the construction of halls fine within 30 days. At the meetings, there is incentive to increase their contributions brothers - "voluntary donations" (though they have this name have nothing of volunteers, because there is a "pressure" on the part of pastors (elders as they are called) so that supporters contribute). But there is another kind of "gift" - the character will, as shown in the magazine The Watchtower, 1 December 1993: "Movable and immovable property, bank accounts and savings, or money, may be legacies to STV - Society Watchtower, by a will duly notarized. A copy of it must be sent to the Company. "
However, it is not by chance that Christ warned his disciples, who had beware of false prophets who would appear near the end of time preaching healing, miracles, etc.. And that's not what we are witnessing? Therefore, it is necessary and urgent that the Prosecutor's investigations continue efeuar the religious system as a whole, to be unveiled all sorts of irregularities, and intolerance, which has been practiced in the name of the holy gospel of God.
Important link above, you can see the reports of the case Universal.
Sebastian Ramos _____________________ Dear Randall:
Something strange is happening in our Forum on the internet ( Jehovah's Witnesses former ) . A participant who claims to be from Bethel ( Roncalli Spinoza) is reporting the whole Guy Pearce 's visit here in Brazil . However , strange things quotes : Ex : Guy Pearce acknowledged that the governing body erred by setting dates and are not worried about the Internet , also said that two committee members Brasil was invited to living in Brooklym . Too, that two Americans will come to Brooklym to Brazil , Michael Burnett and Scott Shoffner to take care of the branch . Would check and see if there are such people in Brooklym or Patterson? ? ... If you can see, this is de link: http://extestemunhasdejeova.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10516
His brother, Daniel Santos ___________________ I simply can't read all my emails! :-) It's like a stock ticker... drives me bonkers. So maybe this update will help, sorry folks. Randy -
37
I Finally Understand the Kingdom Hall Scam
by jamiebowers inhttp://www.codyenterprise.com/articles/2009/02/19/news/doc4987722b2d8b5588859832.txt.
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Dogpatch
I agree with Lee:
I used to ask myself the same question. Who benefits? Then I figured it out. It doesn't matter that no one person benefits financially from the money the WTS rakes in. At this point they are making money to make money - the gathering of gold and silver. Reminds me of some Scribes and Pharisees that Christ spoke about.
The hunger for power is always tied up in money. It's just a matter of how clever the organization in particular is to utilize the scam.
The entire purpose of most organizations is to preserve the organization. The benefit to the scammers? Power and prestige. A greater ego that they could not attain otherwise, a very strong drug. Much more powerful than mere money. In Christian lingo, it's like making a deal with the devil.
Few understand that. Read a few books on scammer organizations (not necessarily religious). Power (often collective/shared) is the most powerful of all drugs.
Randy
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beware the grifter
by Dogpatch inhttp://www.gspoetry.com/beware-the-grifter-spokenword-poems-17795.html.
in a world where people seek better things... .
bleak tells the truth .
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Dogpatch
http://www.gspoetry.com/beware-the-grifter-spokenword-poems-17795.html
In a world where people seek better things...
Bleak tells the truth
(partial quotation)
bware the grifter
drifter
traveling through lives unseen and noticed
by blind eyes
protect you souls, and your treasures
with your lives
the grifter steals with no remorse
no feeling only envy
discover him and call it out
make known the form in which it takes
so take it can no longer do
if not it can easily get close enough to you
to take it all away
bewareThe downside of religious dissolution often leads the way for the grifter.
beware.