I Finally Understand the Kingdom Hall Scam
by jamiebowers 37 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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VM44
The Cody Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses is seeking to rezone the site of their former church on 29th Street from B residential to D-1 limited business. (Photo by Sara Loven)
Reader Comments
Concerned wrote on Feb 20, 2009 7:38 AM:
" Sam, that is exactly what happened in my neighborhood!! Also worth noting that the Watchtower Society after building the hall required the local congregation members to pay (oops, I mean "contribute") the entire cost of the hall back to the Watchtower Society, despite the fact that the Watchtower Society retained ownership of the hall! Guess who got the money when the hall was sold? Not the local congregation, despite the fact that they had paid for the whole thing. When the next hall was built, guess what? Same thing. Congregation members are paying it down but Watchtower Society retains ownership. Once it's paid out, no doubt they will flip it and do it all over again. Wash, rinse, repeat.
PS - The local congregation pays all costs associated with the kingdom hall: property taxes, utilities, maintenance, etc. In other words, it costs the Watchtower Society NOTHING to build the hall, NOTHING to maintain the hall, and they get 100% of the money for the sale of the hall. No wonder the Watchtower Society ranks in the top 40 revenue generating companies in NYC with a billion dollars per annum! "Frank Smith wrote on Feb 20, 2009 7:30 AM:
" Look up the definition of a cult and you will see that in no way do Jehovah's Witnesses fit into that definition. One component is the fact that they do not stay to themselves, they show up at your front door in your neighborhood. A second component is that they live in your neighborhood as well, they do not live in a special area. Do some research before you lable. "
LeavingWT wrote on Feb 20, 2009 7:27 AM:
" JWs baptize minors. Then, if they run astray, they "disfellowship" (institutionalized shunning) them.
Rather than providing loving support when youths need it the most, they get kicked to the curb. Leadership tells the erring one that he or she is the problem.
"Cults shoot their wounded."
Bank on it. "Joe wrote on Feb 20, 2009 5:45 AM:
" Actually, zoning nazi, donation of land is not an extremely common occurrence. It is more common that the congregation has to buy a piece of land and build on it - and then remodel, not sell, after 15 years.
Small Kingdom Halls get sold because the congregation (or congregations, because frequently one KH is shared by several) has outgrown it - due to community response to the message. It's not due to the Witnesses trucking people in, it's due to the preaching and teaching that goes on in the surrounding area. "zoning nazi wrote on Feb 19, 2009 2:32 PM:
" Don't forget to mention that you get such a great deal on your property because it is ALWAYS donated by a member of you cultregation. Your property being turned into a commercial zoning only creates problems for the people that currently live in the residential area. It creates extra traffic in the residential areas and it drives up the real estate value causing a rise in property taxes (which are already way too high for most people). I say leave it zoned residential. "
Michael Whetten wrote on Feb 19, 2009 9:12 AM:
" Sam,
It's funny that you pick on Jehovah's Witnesses for doing the same thing other people advertise on TV for! They even have shows for that kind of thing.
Your religious bias is obvious by you use of the word 'Cult', because did you ever stop to think that the reason they need a new building is that the congregation has grown and the capacity is maxed out? It happens all the time. BUT- If someone wanted to do the same thing with a Baptist, Catholic, or other "mainstream" church, I'll bet you wouldn't have a problem with it - It is not at all about making money. But it is about smart business. Tell me, what would be your idea? There are no schemes here. We just want the same freedoms everyone else has. If we can get a good deal on some land in the process, then what's the problem? Prop values go up all the time. Especially when we take care of it like we do. "Sam Overbey wrote on Feb 19, 2009 6:51 AM:
" The Jehovah's Witnesses have been operating this same "real estate money-making scheme" nationwide for the past several decades. The WatchTower Cult learned long ago that more money could be made "flipping" Kingdom Halls in residential neighborhoods than selling WatchTowers door-to-door.
Search on any news archive for story after story across the United States. First, the JWs "bust" a residential neighborhood by building a Kingdom Hall against the wishes of neighborhood residents after legally threatening or actually forcing local government to yield to their demands of "freedom of religion". Then, 5-15 years thereafter, the JWs proclaim that that Kingdom Hall is too small, and that they must again build an even larger Kingdom Hall in yet another residential neighborhood.
In the meantime, the JWs find a business/commercial purchaser for their old Kingdom Hall, which just so happens to be worth 200%-500% more than their original cost -- not only due to an increase in local real estate values, but also due to the Kingdom Hall's "special" location to that commercial business.
When will media ever pick up on this scheme, or better yet, local zoning officials who are being played like a fiddle??? "Mary wrote on Feb 5, 2009 3:14 PM:
" This is why I was on the skateboard park committee, so children could skate there, not to damage our rec center! "
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WTWizard
They don't need to live in a special area or keep to themselves to be a cult. They happen to use door to door as their major recruiting tool, and they live throughout the cities so they can spread the cancer throughout the whole city.
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johnnyc
It would be a fine theory to say that the WT is seeking to keep all the ownership to the kingdom halls to reap the financial rewards.....except....who benefits? Unless you can prove that specific individuals in the WT are benefiting financially in some way from this, the reality is that the stronger financial strength of the WT only means that organization becomes worth more. Since we all happen to know from Mr. Franz's experience that even governing body members have virtually no money - nor leave with any substaintual money, the WT cannot be compared to a typical corporation that distributes profits to individuals or members. Since they are also required to hold an annual meeting and report their finances yearly, there are obviously no improper actions by the WT when it comes to finances. They use and leverage funds and properties to put back into the construction of other Kingdom Halls and buildings around the world. It is a well known fact there are no bloated salaries going to anyone particular, and even persons who dedicate their entire life in service to the WT end up leaving with very little in compensation campared to other religions or corporations.
As I have stated many times before, keep the criticism real – the way the WT handles their finances should be a model for all other religions – and most who know the details of this cannot state otherwise. If people take the time to investigate, the WT happens to be an open book on all this - even on the congregation level.
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jamiebowers
johnnyc,
I think the point is that the society gains ownership of the property after it's paid for by members of the congregation. And as far as the governing body members not getting rich off of the backs of the rank and file, it has been reported many times that these elite ones live in relative luxury privately and travel extensively on someone else's dime. It's all give, give, give by the rank and file and take, take, take by the organization. Unlike other religions, they do nothing to help the poor, even within the congregation.
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JimmyPage
Okay johnnyc I'll do like you say and keep the criticism real. The WT Society has said for 135 years now that the end is coming. They have predicted certain dates for it and have been wrong every time. How's your pet lion doing in Paradise? For me the KH scam does make sense, especially considering this is nothing more than a corporation.
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No Apologies
Still waiting for any real proof that the Watchtower actually is listed as the owner of any Kingdom Hall. To me this is still one big urban myth.
There are plenty of real things you can point to that the Borg is doing, there is no need to make up rumors like this.
No Apologies
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Lady Lee
johnnyc
I used to ask myself the same question. Who benefits? Then I figured it out. It doesn't matter that no one person benefits financially from the money the WTS rakes in. At this point they are making money to make money - the gathering of gold and silver. Reminds me of some Scribes and Pharisees that Christ spoke about.
The argument that JWs are not segregated and do not live in communes but rather as a part of the population is a false one. It doesn't matter where they live but rather how they are controlled.
The KH financing scam is one, of if not the, most lucrative scams the WTS ever used
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loosie
Iam not playing the devils advocate here...But I wonder when the baptists build a church who owns it the congregation or what?
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Lady Lee
I don't know who owns the churches but they don't keep building them only to turn around and sell them and rebuild. Most churches (and their congregations) stay put for decades some for centuries. I know the Angcan Church I went to in Montreal had been there for over a hundred years and they were trying to get it classified as a historical site. This chuuch wasd filled every Sunday. It was so packed they decided to have a second service in the evening.
The WTS wants JWs to believe that the churches are emptying. But there are many churches that are filled and often the only reason to rebuild is a fire that destroys the building.